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@Rensslaer I agree, I think the subscription is absolutely the way to go. You'd have to be subscribed for a long time before it ended up costing more than buying all the DLC would. For me, my main hang-up with EUIV is more about the sheer amount of game there is at this point. I don't have that young, spry gamer brain any more, and learning is hard!
I am currently trying to overcome my fear of change and finally learn to play HOI4. If that goes successfully, I might branch out and tackle EUIV next. Baby steps.
The subscription is $5/mo or $15/qtr (there may be a slight savings for the quarter -- like maybe it's $12/qtr). And considering that I only play one of these games at a time and I don't want to spend the huge outlay (same as you) to catch up on all the DLCs, I figured this was worth it and relatively affordable.
I'm in the same boat. The last game I splurged on DLC was CK2. If/when I try CK3, EU4 and/or Stellaris for AAR purposes, I'll go the subscription route. Unless I win a lottery...
CK2 is excellent either with all the DLC or none, as I've experienced.
CK3 was pretty good on release too, though missing some obvious chunks of dlc sized content to be put back in later...hopefully.
HOI4 has changed a lot since I played and wrote my last AAR. Properly building and designing all competent for planes, tanks and ships, proper logistics, fuel, spy networks, officer training etx.
@Rensslaer I have the most time in HOI2 and Darkest Hour, so there's a lot of adjusting to how HOI4 does things (I didn't play 3 much, so I can't make too many comparisons there). I enjoy the new production system, where you dedicate factories to building specific equipment as need (rifles, artillery, tanks, fighters, etc.) and consume resources based on what you're building. I like that added level of detail from HOI2's more abstracted IC system. Overall, I think I like the focus trees, since you can look ahead and plan out the route(s) you want to take with your country. I'm not sure if I enjoy designing the division templates yet - I don't mind it, but I'm not sure if I prefer to just building divisions. I don't have any of the DLC that let's you design the equipment yourself, but that's a level of granularity I don't think I'm really interested in.
And then there's combat. In concept, I really like the way that forces are organized in Theaters/Army Groups/Armies, with both AG and Army commanders contributing their respective bonuses to the forces under their command. Likewise, being able to set orders for your AGs/Armies sounds like a cool feature. So far, however, I've been struggling with the Front AI. Now, it could be that I just don't know how to use it properly, so garbage in gets garbage out, but the helpful folks in HOI4 forum seem to be indicating that the battleplanner is just kind of bad in general.
So anyway, long way of saying that there are things I like and things I don't like so far. At the moment Darkest Hour is still my favorite iteration of HOI, but I'm going to keep at it and make sure I give 4 a fair shake.
From my experience, the frontlines system is best used as a tool to get troops somewhere quickly with very little micro. The actual attacks/maneuvers should still be made by the player.
From my experience, the frontlines system is best used as a tool to get troops somewhere quickly with very little micro. The actual attacks/maneuvers should still be made by the player.
Well.... That's good to hear. At least it ALLOWS you to make attacks and maneuvers. That's one of the reasons I'm really leery of V3 -- the theatre based battle/war management system doesn't allow you to command individual units or give individual orders.
And that's one of the things I really liked about HOI 3 - I'm a granular unit movement planner. This unit will airstrike this unit at 0500 and then our pinning attack occurs at 0600 and then our main thrust begins at 0700. That sort of thing. I LOVE it!
Thank You, I am caught up and can now comment. Have not played Eu4 for several years, but it seems that the meat & potatoes remain the same with the latest additions being pretty and leading the player to traps.
@Rensslaer I'm in the same boat with Vicky 3. I won't say that the theater system is objectively bad, but I enjoy the nitty-gritty of combat so I'm not sure if it would be to my liking. So far HOI4 seems be a reasonably good balance between that kind of hands-off approach and the older, more involved war management of older Paradox titles, although I do miss being able to plan detailed offensive and defensive movements in advance.
I am curious if EUV will continue the trend in recent titles of moving towards more automated management of warfare, or if it will stick with something similar to EUIV's current system.
I am curious if EUV will continue the trend in recent titles of moving towards more automated management of warfare, or if it will stick with something similar to EUIV's current system.
I picked up EUIV in an Epic giveaway awhile ago, but sadly it was only the base game and the several hundred pounds necessary to get all the expansions is off-putting. Even the basic bare minimum you need to make it worth playing (according to Paradox) starter pack is £75, which also seem a bit steep.
But what of Brandenburg? Another expensive war and again the slight feeling that it's not really worth it. Maybe it is, but all the debts being racked up seem to take ages to pay off and maybe that money could be put to better use on developing what you already have? Or at least hiring mercenaries in advance to increase the chance of the 'quick cheap' wins you probably need rather than these slow and expensive dragged out conflicts.
That said there do seem to be several big wars kicking off all around you, so will this small conflict really matter compared to the big Ottoman-PLC and Burgundian-HRE wars. Not idea, seems like it shouldn't but perhaps due to game mechanics it will.
@El Pip we kicked off the EU IV subscription discussion in partial feedback earlier.
On the other stuff you say... Yes, another expensive war. lol I'm trying to "learn my way out of the bag". I got into a trap early on by not understanding the mechanics. I think my first mistake was not waiting to develop my economy before diving into my first war. The 2nd mistake I made (which of these 2 is greater?) was using my monarch points for things other than tech advancing. Once I started taking neighboring territory and annexing it I was in a vicious circle where my neighbors didn't like me, I was trying to pay off loans, I had rebellions rising in the conquered territory, requiring me to break my budget again to defeat the rebels, etc.
I've played up to 1501 now, and for the first time I can have my Army Maintenance at 100% while still making a surplus while at war! I suspect many players can do this in the mid-1400s.
Yes, big wars all around me. You'll see in a couple of updates how these wars ultimately embroil Brandenburg.
I have to say, that is a new one - Brittany in PU with Burgundy. That could turn out interesting.
As to the war and/or economy. Part the reason I really suggested perhaps waiting. For me, the budget is everything. Loans? It is not just paying them back. It is the amount of interest paid each month that cause a negative effect in the balance. So too now with mercs. I may be in the minority, but I don't DoW if I don't think I can take them without mercs. They are a luxury or perhaps a last ditch effort to stave off defeat.
@coz1 I'm sure you're correct on all three. 1) Get a stable budget first. 2) Get your tech rolling first. 3) Don't get dependent on mercenaries.
Lessons learned. I've been looking back at my EU 3 game Sforza!!! and it appears that I did build my economy some first, and I did use mercenaries and take out loans, but I never got into this vicious spiral Catch-22 where I couldn't dig out of it. I feel like the maluses against absorbing conquered territory were maybe less in vanilla EU3? Maybe they were less in vanilla EU IV also, but they've been increased over time for balance? Not sure.
One of the larger Burgundys I've seen. An impressive achievement.
They are winning your war. But perhaps hiring two companies was overkill?
I hope Brittany wins this. A weaker Emperor would be good for you and Burgundy/Brittany is far away.
I'm of the same mind as well usually. The exceptions are when my economy can handle more mercs, or that the enemy is distracted/in a weakened state but I still need mercs to win. Sometimes the diplomacy just works out that way and you need mercs to shake things up.
@jak7139 Thanks! Well... Overkill in hindsight. In the moment, and with my experience from the previous war, I got scared because I had seen the enemy hire mercenaries and condottieri and use them to good effect. I was concerned that would happen again, so I wanted to get the jump on it so I wouldn't get surprised again.
In the end, no -- this wasn't an overreaction, I don't think. I needed all the mercenaries I hired in order to get the final result.
@Bullfilter the armies that dogpiled on had been hidden by fog of war, so I was quite surprised to see them materialize. Sometimes I can see them out there in the mist, maybe because they're passing by Berg territory, or another of my allies. But these I hadn't seen.
I'm also concerned about my economy, but at the same time I was committed to the war and so I couldn't allow myself to get distracted. We'd heal the economy after the war. Hopefully.
All caught up again. So I haven’t played a lot of EU, which leads me to a random question: I noticed that for each of your potential wars, the enemy was allied with Hamburg. Since the reason not to go to war with Hamburg was to avoid their daisy-chain of powerful allies, wouldn’t they all be brought in no matter what if Hamburg decided to support their ally? Or are only direct allies brought into a conflict, not allies of allies?
When declaring war, it only brings in the direct allies of the nation.
Two exceptions exist: If an outside nation attacks into the HRE, the Emperor gets to call all of their allies as well, even if not directly declared on. The second exception is something any nation can do. When declaring war, you can set which enemy nations also get to call their allies in. This makes their land cheaper to take (removes the penalties for taking land from a secondary participant, bringing the costs down to normal levels), with the drawback being that you are now fighting more people.
Glad you used the term campaign. One force engaging another force in a given province does not result in a battle lasting several weeks. Prior to WWI the longest battle was likely Gettysburg at 3 days. That was an outlier. The Battle of Vienna (1683) lasted some 14 hours. Also rare. Most engagements usually ran a few hours to barely surviving contact. I've always written these contests as campaigns, meaning maneuvers, skirmishes, recon, a major battle or two, chasing down a beaten enemy or running for the hills. I realize it's just a game thing to call all conflicts a battle, but from a narrative POV there's quite a distinction. Anyway, that's my minor nit and I'm sticking to it .
@Lord Durham I share your frustrations on this point. I can see why Paradox did it this way -- it's more interesting for the player to have a long-term battle, rather than have things decided quickly. Otherwise a game would be long periods of not much happening, followed by an instant of battle, and then back to boredom. But in translating things into gameplay/history AARs it's awkward referring to the "3 week long Battle of Somerset" or watching three transports be intercepted by four dreadnaughts and five weeks later the two surviving transports disengage and retreat toward home. I'm currently drafting an update for Shining Stars where my fleet of American men-of-war are holding off the British ironclads to prevent troops transiting a strait. lol
@HistoryDude the answer w/re to Burgundy is interesting, and we will watch it all unfold. I'll not ruin that just yet -- suffice to say it's a really interesting history.
Brittany is one of the more sensible pairings for The Burgundian Inheritance. I’ve seen Scotland, I’ve seen Cleves, I’ve seen Oldenburg and Milan and The Palatinate. Heck I’ve even seen Hungary!
Hungary and the Ottomans working together feels odd, even if teaming up against the P-L Commonwealth makes a certain amount of sense. Hopefully both sides bleed each other badly while accomplishing very little.
@Rensslaer Do you have a horse in the Burgundian Inheritance war? I imagine you're not overly worried about Austria itself, given that you're likely to run into conflict with them at some point, but would Brittany draw Burgundy out of the HRE? For that matter, how interested are you in preserving the HRE? Is angling for Emperor part of the long-term goals at the moment?
@VILenin yes, I'm kinda famous for subverting expectations, aren't I?
Hungary and the Ottomans aren't allies, of course. They just chose to dogpile at the same time. And this is another REALLY interesting conflict that we'll see unfold over the next few updates. Yes, Brandenburg gets involved, and I will have you on the edge of your seat!
As a member of the HRE I was asked to vote for my preference in the Burgundian Succession, and I chose for us to stay out of it, because it didn't serve my/our needs to get involved in another war. I believe I also figured I'd welcome Burgundy as a powerful check against France and/or Austria that might allow me to develop my own sphere of influence up north.
CK2 is excellent either with all the DLC or none, as I've experienced.
CK3 was pretty good on release too, though missing some obvious chunks of dlc sized content to be put back in later...hopefully.
HOI4 has changed a lot since I played and wrote my last AAR. Properly building and designing all competent for planes, tanks and ships, proper logistics, fuel, spy networks, officer training etx.
@TheButterflyComposer I regret that I've never actually gotten to play CK. The mechanics are interesting, and I think I'd like to. I own CK2 - just haven't played.
Thank You, I am caught up and can now comment. Have not played Eu4 for several years, but it seems that the meat & potatoes remain the same with the latest additions being pretty and leading the player to traps.
@Midnite Duke thanks for catching up! I was following your progress over the past few days from your "likes".
I have to say, I am REALLY liking EU IV. I got really addicted to EU 3 and played it incessantly for a while. It's odd, because this really isn't a historical time period I've paid alot of attention to in my studies. When I did the strategy guide for EU 3 I actually learned quite a bit I hadn't known because I wanted to include historical examples and short histories in the Strategy Guide.
Okay... I am currently putting together an update for Shining Stars, and then will probably have the final update for this war against the Hanseatic League in a week or so. Then another period of peace, and... Well, you know what follows peace.
Any guesses what my next conflict might be? There are a number of directions I could go, and also a number of rivals who might beat me to the punch. It's been a few weeks since I played this and so I don't quite remember what the next war is. But I promise it'll be interesting!
Thank you EVERYBODY for reading! Any lurkers out there who want to drop in to say hi?
@Bullfilter the armies that dogpiled on had been hidden by fog of war, so I was quite surprised to see them materialize. Sometimes I can see them out there in the mist, maybe because they're passing by Berg territory, or another of my allies. But these I hadn't seen.
What I was getting at here, but was perhaps not being specific enough, was that the war progress screen will tell you how many enemy (and allied) troops there are in total and, if you mouse over, by country, of each type.
So, even if you can only see say 15,000 enemy troops, you know that they may have another 30,000 out there lurking somewhere. So you might get tactically surprised, but should not be strategically surprised by the general amounts. Hence able to take some precautions, recruit (own soldiers or mercs) to a general target, etc.
What I was getting at here, but was perhaps not being specific enough, was that the war progress screen will tell you how many enemy (and allied) troops there are in total and, if you mouse over, by country, of each type.
So, even if you can only see say 15,000 enemy troops, you know that they may have another 30,000 out there lurking somewhere. So you might get tactically surprised, but should not be strategically surprised by the general amounts. Hence able to take some precautions, recruit (own soldiers or mercs) to a general target, etc.
I understand what you mean now. Yes I was aware there were other armies the enemy had. I just didn't expect them to burst out of the bushes and yell "boo!" at me right then.
I really need to get this AAR caught up. I was playing today and it's just an insane war I've gotten into. Each successive war is more challenging than the one before, which I suppose is as it should be.
Continuing with the conclusion of Brandenburg’s war with the Hanseatic League (Lubeck, Rugen, Bremen, Hamburg, Oldenburg & Anhalt)…
By February 1478 the merchant City State of Lubeck had had enough of war, and they lowered their gates to allow the Brandenburger armies within the city. By March a separate peace was concluded, with Lubeck agreeing to pay a 10% indemnity to Brandenburg for 5 years (this amounted to .74 ducats per month – not great, but everything helps, right?).
True, this was less than we had hoped for from this war. But we still had other opponents to be humbled and brought to the peace table, and more that could be accomplished. We would come back for Lubeck in the future – we were sure of it.
This boosted Brandenburg’s Prestige to 40, and Power Projection to 48 (+30 for humiliating Lubeck). Please note that I was not aware yet of the bonus for having over 50 Power Projection, but since I acquired 30 from humiliating Lubeck I suspect I wasn’t near that target until just now so the Insults and Embargoes that could also boost Power Projection weren’t really going to be helpful before now.
You’ll notice that by this time we also had soldiers besieging Oldenburg (at -28%) and Bremen (at 14%), and another of our armies (recently freed from the siege at Lubeck) is marching into Verden where a small Hamburger army (surely the only one they had remaining) is about to bend the knee due to our overwhelming advantage.
Another major change from having made peace with Lubeck was their rather large navy was no longer aiding Rugen in blockading Brandenburg’s coastline. It was time for Brandenburg’s navy to show it was only inferior to the whole of the Hanse fleet, and with Lubeck gone, so was the bulk of their fleet (I seem to recall Lubeck had at least 10 galleys and a number of barques).
Rugen had only 3 galleys attempting to hold a blockade, whereas Brandenburg had one early carrack (the largest warship in the game at this time), four barques and 3 galleys. We also brought our 2 cogs out to fight – they wouldn’t contribute a lot to the combat power of our navy, but they might soak up some of the damage the remaining Rugeners could deal out.
Unfortunately the Rugeners fled for port when they could, without loss. Next, the Brandenburger navy took on the Bremeners, who had 6 cogs blockading Stralsund. They also fled after a brief battle.
The Free City of Bremen surrendered on 4 April.
The next target we chose was Gelre, in the Netherlands region. We had some idea that we might be able to best Gelre in the field, take some territory, and then ask them for an indemnity, as we had the Lubeckers. At the beginning of April we did catch a small Gelrean army, but some Oldenburgers and Hamburgers joined in and made it an even fight. Except that they may have outmatched us in technology, so we didn’t hold up so well.
Our reinforcements arrived 23 April, and then the enemy was in trouble. By 19 May the 3 small enemy armies retreated. It was marked as a Brandenburger victory despite us suffering twice as many casualties. The armies remained to siege the capital.
By mid-June the other Gelrean province, Oversticht, had fallen under our control, but we remained at -64% for the capital city itself (no blockade, etc.). This would clearly be a long-term investment of time and soldiers. We maintained nearly 14,000 soldiers at Gelre while an army (granted, with low organization) of nearly 15,000 Hanseatics lurked nearby. Another Brandenburger army of 8,500 idled in position near them. It was a standoff, of sorts. No one moved, lest the other take advantage.
We teased a separate peace to return their captured northern province, but the Gelrean king/prince/whatever was a fierce negotiator and refused. To further irritate us, he sent his 7 barques to join 8 Bremender barques and 3 Rugener galleys in restoring the blockade we had broken!
In mid-July the City of Oldenburg remained obstinate as well, holding out at 14%.
On the 15th of August a challenge was issued to the heirless Prince-Elector Friedrich III. The Brandenburger Pommeranians desired to seat one of their young princelings as his heir. Friedrich’s legitimacy was at 93% which didn’t seem that bad. But a war was underway and he had no son. This was a risk. What to do? It was decided to accept the risk and insist that he would have a son in time – not to worry. This decision increased his legitimacy to 98%, and we were set. So long as he didn’t die…
When, in September, the City State of Oldenburg finally capitulated, it was time to conclude a peace. We had 58% Warscore (minus what Lubeck had contributed, which we lost due to our separate peace).
We tried to make a deal where Rugen and Anhalt and Oldenburg all became vassals, but that was too much for them to accept.
This was already a tremendously successful war for Brandenburg. Best not to push it?
We settled for taking Anhalt and Rugen as vassals, and required a pittance of 6.6 ducats and 10% of Oldenburg’s income over 5 years as an indemnity. Yes, we could have continued the war and pushed for more. But our economy was suffering – we had pursued this war, like the others, mostly on credit.
Brandenburg remained in a strong position after this war. With Prestige of 45 and Power Projection of 51, the European world recognized Brandenburg as a force to be reckoned with. That was what we desired. We would prefer to be better liked, but second best might be to be somewhat feared.
Looking ahead, Friedrich III knew that he would need to remain at peace for a while to heal, pay off loans, restore the economy, grieve his father and rebuild manpower reserves.
Time to give it a rest. The mercenary companies were disbanded. We invested 140 Administrative points to increase Stability to +2 (in retrospect I know some of you might disagree with this choice, and in hindsight I would agree with you – I needed tech!).
Now to settle our economy… <sighs>
What would the future bring? More wars perhaps? Possibly with the Teutonic Knights? Or Bohemia? Or perhaps even Poland??
Definitely time to hang up the spurs and armor. But what do you figure might come next?
Judging by the differences in your military tactics versus theirs, yes they do outmatch you. Tactics are extremely important. So any mil tech that increases its level is even more important to get.
Maybe. I don't know how much money you were losing per month, so it's hard to say. Gelre, Hamburg, etc. could've all seperately given you money/war reps. But would that have been enough to offset what you were spending?
Thank you for the update. Good job on the war. On buying stab, the rule that I have heard is play at +1 if possible and purchase +2 when you have a free stab. event on the screen (buying +3 at +2 cost).
Actually being recognised as signifacnt is a pretty bad idea for Brandenburg. You want to go as unnoticed as possible for as long as possible until you can absolutely take on the hapsburgs and win.
Indeed, I might not have boosted that stability but it's done. I think the biggest need is that heir right now. Though you have less that 100% legitimacy, you might try for a RM or two if it does not put you over the relationship limit. Why not try those two new vassals?
To add on to this, you can marry your allies as well as your vassals. The relations-slot is already taken up by them anyway, so a marriage will not take up any more room.
How much of a hit to legitimacy would you have taken if you'd accepted the heir? And, in general, how important is legitimacy? I'm sure high is better than low, but is there much of a practical difference between 93 and 98 percent?
"Time for an extended period of peace to let the country recover and improve the economy." I feel like l've heard this from you before... So what war is Brandenburg getting embroiled in next?
