Rex Germania - A Brandenburg to Prussia Strategy AAR

[HistoryDude]

Congrats on your new vassals! Hopefully they grow to appreciate Brandenburg's overlordship...

Will these Pomeranians in Brandenburg come up again? Their discontent could be a problem (it might just be flavor, though - haven't played much in the HRE in EU4).

 

[Rensslaer]

Maybe. I don't know how much money you were losing per month, so it's hard to say. Gelre, Hamburg, etc. could've all seperately given you money/war reps. But would that have been enough to offset what you were spending?

@jak7139 I've heard people say that you can pay back loans out of money given in peace settlements but I've never seen personally an award that would fully pay back even a single loan. Maybe I just haven't played enough. I think I would have lost money by prolonging the war long enough to bring the others down.

Thank you for the update. Good job on the war. On buying stab, the rule that I have heard is play at +1 if possible and purchase +2 when you have a free stab. event on the screen (buying +3 at +2 cost).

@Midnite Duke thanks! I've just recently learned about that trick with the Stability so haven't gotten a chance to use it yet.

Actually being recognised as signifacnt is a pretty bad idea for Brandenburg. You want to go as unnoticed as possible for as long as possible until you can absolutely take on the hapsburgs and win.

@TheButterflyComposer Well... It's a balance. I want my neighbors to see me as someone they'd rather have as an ally than an enemy. I want the really big guys to see me as too strong to take on as a snack, but not as a threat to them they will need to smash. And I want the 2-3 neighbors I have who still pose a threat to me to realize it wouldn't be a walk in the park.

Indeed, I might not have boosted that stability but it's done. I think the biggest need is that heir right now. Though you have less that 100% legitimacy, you might try for a RM or two if it does not put you over the relationship limit. Why not try those two new vassals?

@coz1 I actually did end up getting a royal marriage with Anhalt. Rugen is a republic, so no royal marriages.

To add on to this, you can marry your allies as well as your vassals. The relations-slot is already taken up by them anyway, so a marriage will not take up any more room.

This is something I had recognized by this point but was difficult to undo once I'd set some things up. You'll see in the next update I think. From now on I'm carefully selecting likely allies and royal marriage partners, and will coordinate the two.

What could go wrong?

How much of a hit to legitimacy would you have taken if you'd accepted the heir? And, in general, how important is legitimacy? I'm sure high is better than low, but is there much of a practical difference between 93 and 98 percent?

I think Machiavelli had something to say about this. The question is, will somewhat feared be good enough?

"Time for an extended period of peace to let the country recover and improve the economy." I feel like l've heard this from you before... So what war is Brandenburg getting embroiled in next?

@VILenin I don't believe legitimacy affects you very much unless it's below 80% or so. Not like some of the other stats do. Not unless you have a succession question. Perhaps @jak7139 could answer better.

Yes, you've heard that from me before. "I'm going to stay at peace for a while, but.... Oh, wait."

But it's for real this time. Almost a whole decade at peace!

Congrats on your new vassals! Hopefully they grow to appreciate Brandenburg's overlordship...

Will these Pomeranians in Brandenburg come up again? Their discontent could be a problem (it might just be flavor, though - haven't played much in the HRE in EU4).

@HistoryDude thanks! I think that was a one-off event that won't be an issue in the future.


Anyone new reading who hasn't spoken up? I love to hear from folks, even if you haven't caught up all the way.


Also everyone please remember to vote in the Q1 AARLand Choice AwAARds! This is an important awards tradition to encourage our writers and possibly spread the word about good things to read. No pressure to vote for my AARs, but it's important to vote for the stories you're reading. Doesn't take much time. Thanks!


So I've been working on the next couple of updates. Should have something to post in a few days to a week, I hope.

Thanks for reading and commenting!

Rensslaer

 

[jak7139]

Maybe I just haven't played enough. I think I would have lost money by prolonging the war long enough to bring the others down.

There are wars that can pay back all (or at least most) of the debt accrued. But you generally have to have a stable economy to begin with, so you can win those wars easily without taking more debt. The other way is to fight a larger power like Ming or the Ottomans and only take money and reparations. Ming especially is a common target, because of how weak they can become with lower Mandate of Heaven score.

I don't believe legitimacy affects you very much unless it's below 80% or so.

You're spot on! Higher is better, but as long as it's above 80, you're fine. You can spend mil points to increase it by 10 as well, so having low legitimacy is almost never an issue.

 

[El Pip]

If that was a successful war I feel sure the treasurer of Brandenburg would never wish to see an unsuccessful one. A long period of peace and recovery seems entirely appropriate.

That said territory gained and now Friedrich can project power which sounds like something he will enjoy, I imagine it to look something like this;

If he does it right it may even solve his lack of heir problem.

 

[Rensslaer]

A Decade of Peace for Brandenburg… But Not For Others!



This update, so you know, is about the peace after the war against the Hanseatic League. But, ironically, very little of this update will need to deal with Brandenburg itself. The more interesting story is what happened to the rest of Europe during this period.

So… Brandenburg had acquired two vassals, Rugen and Anhalt. And they were paying tribute to us (.27 ducats). It wasn’t a lot, but I was happy…

…until it stopped! Quickly looking to see what was up I realized their Liberty Desire was above 50%, which makes them stop paying. I sent Diplomats to start improving relations, in the desperate hope that that would work and I wouldn’t have to deal with a revolt (or two) so soon after acquiring these territories!

Thankfully, it worked.

I know you’re going to say, “Wait, what?” But Brandenburg took out more loans in order to finish some important construction.

The first thing I knew we needed – and this couldn’t wait – was a fortress/castle at Danzig. So many of our “wars that might be” would leave Danzig hanging if it weren’t protected. This was a must have. I also needed a larger navy to compete in any war. Another must have.







But I took a gamble, also, figuring that if I sprinkled a few churches around the realm in strategic locations that it might pay dividends over time. Now, if you do the math, spending 80 ducats for a church that would bring in .09 or .16 ducats a month adds up to more than 40 or 60 years to pay it off. So that math isn’t so good as a rationale. But I was wanting margins to stack up against my debt, and… Well, sometimes I use fuzzy math in my strategy. Sometimes I have a sense something will help without knowing for sure, but… but still kind of knowing. It’s a thing I do in my head, and I can’t explain it.

At 4% interest (I hadn’t figured out the 1% loans from the Burghers yet) a loan of 80 ducats is going to cost me 3.2 ducats a year, or .26 ducats a month. A church, often, will bring in between .16 and .09 ducats a month (some provinces would bring in less, but I wouldn’t build there). So why would I choose to take a loan to build something that costs me more in interest than it brings in income?

Anyone else feel free to tell me why what I did doesn’t make any sense. I did it anyway, and this is partly why.

First, I was grasping at straws. I figured I’d try a bunch of different stuff and see what worked. No, I didn’t actually do the math first. I just figured I’d try it. Secondly, anything that improves my economy permanently is good in general, and a church offers a permanent increase in monthly income from a province. Thirdly, the loan isn’t permanent. I know it sometimes SEEMS like my loans are permanent. But in time I’ll pay off the loan. But I’ll continue to get benefit from the investment in the building, and the longer a building exists the more I’ll get out of it. A church in Berlin in 1475 is worth a heck of a lot more over the course of the game than a church in Berlin in 1550. Like 144 ducats more.



And yeah, I was also “stealing against tech” to develop some of my provinces for tax income and production. Some of you have pointed out to me that development is a later game strategy that’s less worth it in the early game because Monarch Points are best used for tech. I agree with you now that I understand all this, but I didn’t at this time. Nevertheless, that development did actually help me to build the economy on the short term. Just not on the long term. I also added some manpower (again, stealing against tech).

I sold titles to our nobles and clergy in order to raise 400-500 ducats to pay off loans, which I did, easing the burden of interest somewhat. I added “Regional Councils” as a reform, which added 50% to local tax modifiers. I did various other things, probably. I fired my advisors for now. I know some of you might disagree with this decision, but I was trying everything to get that economy back in the positive, and I eventually was able to get it to about 1 or 2 ducats a month into the positive, which got saved over the course of many months to pay off more loans.

Okay, here’s the first time I’m going to mention Poland. Poland is a theme for this update. You’ll recall Poland was at war with both Hungary and the Ottomans at the end of the previous update.

After I humiliated them, Lubeck was no longer a valid Rival, so I picked Poland instead. I know that’s risky – Poland is yet another powerful neighbor who I might rather have friendly with me than not. But frankly they and we had burned some bridges, so it wasn’t much of a stretch. So at this point my rivals were Teutonic Order, Poland and Bohemia.







After the war finished I recognized that I had too many diplomatic relationships to keep progressing toward Diplomatic Tech. I canceled the military access treaties, and also started looking at alliances, royal marriages, etc, trying to pool my agreements with fewer countries.

I examined the possibility of breaking my Royal Marriage with Landshut, which I’d secured only because they were without an heir and in hopes of picking up an inheritance, but hadn’t really thought it through. It would have cost me -1 Stability and -10 Prestige, and that was too costly. Forget it.

But, between 1478 and 1481 I did end my alliances with both Berg and Magdeburg. That was not a great loss. I’d found that coordinating the attentions of my allied armies was like herding cats. Magdeburg had contributed militarily in a couple of instances, but Berg never really had. I could afford to be without them.

I also found that my barques would be better employed protecting trade in the Novgorod Trade node rather than the Baltic Sea trade mode, even though I left my merchant at Baltic Sea.

The war against Poland was CRAZY! I would never have imagined!







Sometime in the early 1480s Brandenburg saw Ottoman soldiers tromping around just the other side of our border with Poland!!! The Teutonic Knights must also have been creeped out by watching Ottoman soldiers and Hungarian soldiers passing each other peacefully en route to different targets in their wars against Poland and Lithuania. On the far right you’ll notice there’s a battle underway between the Hungarians and Poles deep into Lithuania, nearly to Muscovy.

This was a wide ranging war, and VERY devastating for Poland and Lithuania alike. It was not a contest – both countries had become playthings of their neighbors.

In other news, the Austrians declared war on Baden and some of her allies, and the borders of Austria expanded some. Austria also forced Baden into a Personal Union through this war. Moroccan Muslims actually took over part of southern Portugal, briefly, before Castile took that land and most of Morocco from them. Switzerland expanded into Savoy and the Three Leagues.

Oh, and speaking of the Austrian Emperor… Shortly after this inheritance, we got a new Austrian Emperor.

In an attempt to curry favor with the Clergy Estate, we took up the challenge of increasing our relationship with the Papal States to +100 sometime in the next 20 years or so.

Back to Poland and Lithuania, in March of 1481, the Muscovites dogpiled onto the most unlucky personal union in history. They began advancing to take what the Ottomans and Hungarians hadn’t already!!!






And then 3 months later the Poles finally made peace with the Ottomans, giving up two Polish provinces and two Moldavian provinces (from their ally). The Turks also required the re-constitution of the principality of Mazovia, so Brandenburg and the Teutonic Knights re-acquired a nearby neighbor, who the Teutonic Knights then conquered a couple years later.

The Polish war against Hungary and Muscovy continued until March of 1482, when Hungary made peace with Poland after its long, six year war. Hungary took 8 provinces!







Just look at how small Poland is now!!! From being a Great Power to being a has-been country that could be considered weaker than Brandenburg, except for that personal union with Lithuania. Poland was on the wane.

And after all this, the much engrossed Hungary – our ally, thankfully – became a Great Power. Later in this decade Hungary also declared war against Bosnia and Serbia, and absorbed both. A ravenous power, and again Brandenburg thanked its lucky stars that 1) it hadn’t retained the alliance with Poland, and 2) it now had an alliance with a powerful Hungary.

By contrast to Hungary, Brandenburg was still trying to digest its own growth, and debased its currency in a bid to pay off more of those loans. In retrospect, I likely would not have done this, as the Corruption became as much a long-term curse as the loans had been. Argh!

So… Time moves on. Brandenburg’s economy continues to improve and my loans get paid off. What else is going on meantime?

Another country that’s growing during this decade is France…







There were three wars, over the course of about 1481 to 1487, of which France won every single time, and continued to grow larger and more powerful with each victory.

First England gave up Bourdeaux (you’ll recall Normandy, Brittany and much of the lowlands were already possessions of Burgundy). Then France annexed Lorraine. Then it declared war against most of its small French neighbors, and won those wars also with annexation the result.

Who else could stand against France in the west? England maybe? Austria maybe? Or Brandenburg. Quite surely this duty would fall to Brandenburg one day. And that was a daunting prospect.

The next big crisis involved Saxony and Thuringia, the neighboring personal union we had fought from 1465-67. Thuringia, which was actually larger and more powerful than Saxony, declared independence, and Magdeburg, Goslar and Wurzburg supported them. Brunswick and Nuremberg joined in alliance with Saxony. Suddenly half our German neighbors were at war with each other.







The war took almost 3 years, but in May of 1485 the Thuringians claimed full victory and actually annexed Saxony, their former senior partner. This was great from the Brandenburger standpoint, since we had maintained relatively good relations with Thuringia despite being in a near-rivalry situation with Saxony. We endeavoured to curry them as allies, and once that was accomplished also established a Royal Marriage for their heirless house. This seemed like it would be a great relationship.

Then in summer of 1485 the Austrian Emperor started issuing demands. Thuringia rebuffed his entreaties with regard to Leipzig and Dresden – the two largest cities – but finally they acquiesced and gave the rural province of Zwickau to Saxony.

So now we had both as near-neighbors again. But now we began to grow closer to both, and ended up having both an alliance and royal marriage with both. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I had hopes we would be able to get one or the other as vassals soon enough. It even seemed possible. But this all would fall apart in time. Not before this update is over.

Before the Polish war was over, Brandenburg again saw large enemy armies battling just the other side of the border. At Poznan Poland and Muscovy clashed, and the Poles lost once more. By 1484 Poland and Lithuania – the once enormous dual monarchy – had been occupied by Muscovy on the heels of their successive humiliation by Hungary and the Ottomans.







Poland, frankly, by the end, didn’t have much worth taking. And so it was Lithuania that was forced to give up no fewer than 13 provinces to the Muscovites!!

There was another behemoth to worry about. One day, anyway.


In 1483 and 1484 we had achieved Diplo Tech Level 6 and Military Tech Level 6. We were behind in the Administrative Tech, but were at least catching up in these other two categories.

We had a surplus going, had paid off a good number of our loans, had money for advisors. Our diplomats issued Insults and Embargoes upon Poland and the Teutonic Order to boost our Power Projection. In the cold light of reality, Brandenburg was still a poor, almost backward country compared to many of its peers. But Brandenburg had a proud history, and was growing in power.

We were looking at possible vassals nearby. Maybe Thuringia, maybe Saxony, maybe Luneburg. We had work to do if we wanted any of them. We also looked, briefly, at the possibility of war with Mecklenburg, whose Baltic coast ports we coveted. But they had strong allies, and that wasn’t a practical option at all. It would have drawn us into war with the Emperor, for one.







By the time 1488 rolled around, Brandenburg wasn’t doing too badly. Tenth in the world in terms of Prestige (ahead of Austria). Power Projection was 53 (ahead of France). Power Projection was aided by the mundane acts of embargoes and insults against our neighbors, but also by Humiliating Lubeck (+29), Eclipsing Lubeck (+10), having Longtime Rivals (+10) and having “age objectives fulfilled” (+6). @jak7 can you fill us in a bit on what exactly that means?

Brandenburg ranked 13th in the known world in terms of Income (similar rank to Aragon and Denmark), and 12th in Development in the known world (next to Lithuania and Austria).

Brandenburg’s armies (ignore the Morale – that’s with low maintenance) are in good shape with the highest Discipline of our allies and enemies, and not doing too badly in terms of Tradition. Hungary and Bohemia have larger armies, and the Teutonic Order is just behind. They are allied, and it would be hard to beat both.


Brandenburg has the 10th largest navy in the known world, with 2 carracks (heavy ships) which is one fewer than Musvovy but more than Denmark. Several neighbors have more galleys in the Baltic, where they excel in combat. Clearly, Brandenburg finally has a naval force to be reckoned with locally.








I always have the sense, as do many of us, that there is always another war around the corner. That anything could happen. I had to deny this sense for nearly a decade in order to get my economy to where we could really afford to be at war again.

But then there came a sense of having cheated the odds too long. By 1486 we were starting to look at the possibility and/or likelihood of conflict in the near future, whether by our hand or another. We increased Army Spending to 50% to keep our troops’ morale up, just in case, and invested money in drilling our soldiers, and promoted another general to help us in upcoming wars.

We actually looked seriously at invading Poland. She had no allies. She had no soldiers – they were all dead (10,000 manpower remaining, but I’m guessing no money to recruit!). It would be an easy target, or so I thought.

But then I started thinking of the difficulty and arduous long-term investment of occupying all those Lithuanian lands. Lithuania at least had 5,000 soldiers, and they could likely afford to raise more. It seemed a chancey thing. So I passed.

But then…






NOOOOO!!!!!!

In May of 1488 the Teutonic Order declared war on Poland, clearly meaning to pick from the scraps.

This was a problem. Brandenburg’s strategy so far has been to grow in order to improve our economy and staying power against rivals. What happens when our rivals follow the same strategy? The Teutonic Knights had already expanded into neighboring land (Mazovia had disappeared again) and grown stronger.

Could we allow this to continue? Continue to watch our primary rival grow and become more dangerous? No.

“Oh no you don’t, you dastardly…. Knights! You won’t have this party to yourself! The race is on, starting NOW!”







At the start of the war Brandenburg had nearly 16,000 Manpower, which I consider quite good (more than we’ve ever had before). We increase to full funding and hire mercenaries, and our cavalry starts off across the Polish border, meaning to grab as many provinces and siege positions as we can before the Teutonic Knights can get there. We’re not fighting them – only hurrying to precede them. And there are no Polish armies, so far, to stop either of us.

 

[VILenin]

A very sudden demise for Poland. They suffered pretty badly from that war with Hungary and the Ottomans, but they maybe could've bounced back in the long-term as long as they held onto the PU with Lithuania, but the stab by Muscovy sealed their fate. With what's left of Poland clearly not long for this world, I don't blame you for rushing to grab what you can before the Teutonic Order picks over the bones.

Brandenburg seems like it's getting close to graduating from a regional power to a great power - and just in time, it seems, since some large and powerful neighbors are forming nearby. You definitely don't want to fall behind the likes of France, Hungary, or Muscovy.

 

[jak7139]

The first thing I knew we needed – and this couldn’t wait – was a fortress/castle at Danzig.

A fort is nice, but I think Stolp would've been a better province to build it in. Its terrain is woods if I remember, giving you an advantage in combats. Stolp is also adjacent to more provinces.

Now, if you do the math, spending 80 ducats for a church that would bring in .09 or .16 ducats a month adds up to more than 40 or 60 years to pay it off.

A church in Berlin in 1475 is worth a heck of a lot more over the course of the game than a church in Berlin in 1550. Like 144 ducats more.

I like to build any building that gives over 0.10 a month. Sometimes the .09 ones can be worth it too, it usually means the autonomy has to go down.

I added “Regional Councils” as a reform, which added 50% to local tax modifiers.

This only applies if you add an edict to your provinces. So this reform has given you a new edict you can enact. It's probably worth turning on in some of your richer states.

You can find the screen here:

Brandenburg was still trying to digest its own growth, and debased its currency in a bid to pay off more of those loans. In retrospect, I likely would not have done this, as the Corruption became as much a long-term curse as the loans had been. Argh!

Corruption is really terrible. As you've discovered, it usually takes more money to pay down the corruption then what you receive (as well as all the other terrible penalties it gives you). It should only be used as a last result to stave off bankruptcy, not as a method of growth.

We endeavoured to curry them as allies, and once that was accomplished also established a Royal Marriage for their heirless house. This seemed like it would be a great relationship.

I had hopes we would be able to get one or the other as vassals soon enough.

With how far over the relations-limit you are, I don't think more allies are necessary at this time. You already have Hungary as your strong partner, then 2 slots used up on Anhalt and Rugen. Then you can have the fourth slot be used for Thuringia. It might be fine to go one over the limit if you're sure you need it.

Diplo-vassalizing people within the HRE is difficult. It's better to wait until you know they'll accept your proposal, rather than hoping it might happen. You're losing so many diplo points. 7 points a month...

Power Projection was 53 (ahead of France). Power Projection was aided by the mundane acts of embargoes and insults against our neighbors, but also by Humiliating Lubeck (+29), Eclipsing Lubeck (+10), having Longtime Rivals (+10) and having “age objectives fulfilled” (+6). @jak7 can you fill us in a bit on what exactly that means?

Power Projection is increased when you do stuff against your rivals (embargoes, winning wars against them, etc). You humiliated Lubeck in your war, giving you some PP. Humiliating a rival is also an age objective, giving you another boost.

You're in the Age of Discovery right now. Each age has certain goals that you can try to work towards. You're not expected to complete all of them, but completing a few is a good way to track your progress. Each objective you complete gives you splendor, and you can spend this to get bonuses during that age.

Screenshots below of the ages screen:

We increase to full funding and hire mercenaries, and our cavalry starts off across the Polish border, meaning to grab as many provinces and siege positions as we can before the Teutonic Knights can get there.

Since Poland is in such a weak position, hiring mercenaries was probably a bit premature. You have 19k against only 5k from the Lithuanians (plus the potential 10k from Polish manpower). But you and the Teutons together have more than enough troops without mercs. And you can maneuver around and kill whatever Polish troops are recruited before they group up. The Teutons are also in between you and Lithuania, meaning the Lithuanians will be distracted.

 

[Midnite Duke]

Good luck on grabbing as much Polish soil as possible. Bad Knights! Thanks

 

[HistoryDude]

France could be a problem at the western edge of the HRE.

It looks like the Partitions of Poland are happening early! And there are more states clamoring to partition them!

What Polish territory do you plan on snatching? Do you intend to annex any portion of Lithuania?

How long will it take the Ottomans and Hungary to be at war?

 

[El Pip]

The previous chapter ended thusly

Looking ahead, Friedrich III knew that he would need to remain at peace for a while to heal, pay off loans, restore the economy,

Now to settle our economy… <sighs>

And by a rather convoluted argument we ended up with this;

But Brandenburg took out more loans in order to finish some important construction.

I make no claim to understand the EU:IV mechanics, but I will chip in that the church purchase looks even worse than you make out. Because the extra income doesn't even cover the interest the 'cost' of the church is rising every month. You start at -80 ducats (from the loan). Be generous and you make the top end 0.16 a month from the church, then pay the 0.26 ducats a month interest. At the end of year 1 you are at -81.2 ducats.

On those numbers it will never pay for itself, so it looks like the church has just made you permanently poorer. Of course if you get an influx of money (war loot from Poland perhaps?) you could clear the debt and then it looks like things are better, but that war loot could have been spent on something more productive instead of clearing the debt so I don't think that helps. Hopefully for Brandenburg's sake there is some game mechanic I am missing.

The Polish collapse is quite impressive in it's own way, let us hope you can grab something while there is still something worth getting.

 

[coz1]

Good deal with the war on Poland. Catch them when they are down. However, I believe you need to make new rules going forward:

1. No loans

We know why.

2. No mercs

As suggested above, you likely have the upper hand already so you don't need the extra cost of the mercs so soon after recovering the economy (and considering the cost of your own troops you will have to pay for as your armies start getting depleted.)

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

To be fair, this is a very German way of running their economy and government. Utterly dependent on continued military success to stave off bankruptcy...because of all the miltiary stuff.

 

[Rensslaer]

If that was a successful war I feel sure the treasurer of Brandenburg would never wish to see an unsuccessful one. A long period of peace and recovery seems entirely appropriate.

I make no claim to understand the EU:IV mechanics, but I will chip in that the church purchase looks even worse than you make out. Because the extra income doesn't even cover the interest the 'cost' of the church is rising every month. You start at -80 ducats (from the loan). Be generous and you make the top end 0.16 a month from the church, then pay the 0.26 ducats a month interest. At the end of year 1 you are at -81.2 ducats.

On those numbers it will never pay for itself, so it looks like the church has just made you permanently poorer. Of course if you get an influx of money (war loot from Poland perhaps?) you could clear the debt and then it looks like things are better, but that war loot could have been spent on something more productive instead of clearing the debt so I don't think that helps. Hopefully for Brandenburg's sake there is some game mechanic I am missing.

The Polish collapse is quite impressive in it's own way, let us hope you can grab something while there is still something worth getting.

@El Pip I hear you loud and clear! And I'm sure you're right in general. Checking your math, though, you're positing a .1 ducat a month deficit for income gained vs. interest lost, which at the end of year 1 would be -1.2, right? And that'd be -12 ducats over 10 years, presuming I keep the loan, right? Not sure where you get the -81 ducats.

The loans, though -- they go away eventually, or else more loans are taken for different spending projects. So I'm not ALWAYS paying for the same loan that was taken for this single project.

More on the loans -- my pledge to you fiscal conservatives! -- in my response to Coz1 below...

A very sudden demise for Poland. They suffered pretty badly from that war with Hungary and the Ottomans, but they maybe could've bounced back in the long-term as long as they held onto the PU with Lithuania, but the stab by Muscovy sealed their fate. With what's left of Poland clearly not long for this world, I don't blame you for rushing to grab what you can before the Teutonic Order picks over the bones.

Brandenburg seems like it's getting close to graduating from a regional power to a great power - and just in time, it seems, since some large and powerful neighbors are forming nearby. You definitely don't want to fall behind the likes of France, Hungary, or Muscovy.

@VILenin yeah I was shocked to see Poland go down so quickly. And to think they were my ally at the beginning! Would I have been drawn into all that if I'd kept the alliance, as I'd frankly meant to? Sheesh. Hungary gets me into enough trouble, as we'll see in coming years.

Well, great power status is a ways off still for Brandenburg. I'm still hemmed in by countries that are more powerful than I, which is partly why I remain in a cycle of debts and mercs to keep me above water. But you're right -- I need to plan for the future and get to a point where I can contend with France and Muscovy, at least, because they're coming for me eventually!

A fort is nice, but I think Stolp would've been a better province to build it in. Its terrain is woods if I remember, giving you an advantage in combats. Stolp is also adjacent to more provinces.


I like to build any building that gives over 0.10 a month. Sometimes the .09 ones can be worth it too, it usually means the autonomy has to go down.

This only applies if you add an edict to your provinces. So this reform has given you a new edict you can enact. It's probably worth turning on in some of your richer states.

Corruption is really terrible. As you've discovered, it usually takes more money to pay down the corruption then what you receive (as well as all the other terrible penalties it gives you). It should only be used as a last result to stave off bankruptcy, not as a method of growth.

Since Poland is in such a weak position, hiring mercenaries was probably a bit premature. You have 19k against only 5k from the Lithuanians (plus the potential 10k from Polish manpower). But you and the Teutons together have more than enough troops without mercs. And you can maneuver around and kill whatever Polish troops are recruited before they group up. The Teutons are also in between you and Lithuania, meaning the Lithuanians will be distracted.

@jak7139 Edicts.... I'm bad at edicts, both here and in Stellaris, and I'm having a little trouble grasping the concept. I know they exist as an option, but I haven't gained a comfort level with using them or understanding when to use them. At this point in the game, I think, I was unable to use edicts quite yet.

On forts, I think I figured the major industry/population centers should be protected by forts, not necessarily having a fort every so often to protect our provinces. And I figured I would have most of the provinces protected just via the distribution of major cities. Later I run into the problem where I have forts stacking up next to each other. Curious -- what would you recommend? I feel like it's wasteful to destroy a perfectly good fort. But economically is that position defensible?

I can see what you mean about mercenaries being premature. But at this point I had a very small army of my own, and it would take more time to build more (plus it draws from my manpower, which I was hoping to preserve). I felt like I really needed to get the jump on the Teutonic Knights and get coverage for occupation across most of Poland and Lithuania before the Knights could get there. That was my feeling for having mercs help me. I also figured it was possible Poland might be able to constitute some armies and I might need some standing power against them.

Good luck on grabbing as much Polish soil as possible. Bad Knights! Thanks

Thanks @Midnite Duke!

France could be a problem at the western edge of the HRE.

It looks like the Partitions of Poland are happening early! And there are more states clamoring to partition them!

What Polish territory do you plan on snatching? Do you intend to annex any portion of Lithuania?

How long will it take the Ottomans and Hungary to be at war?

@HistoryDude France is ALWAYS a problem! And as big as they've gotten, I'm definitely considering them one.

Yeah, very early partitions of Poland! I'm going to let you see the next update for what I'll grab. I won't want to get territory too far away from central Brandenburg though.

Definitely watch out for Hungary vs. Ottomans at some point...

Good deal with the war on Poland. Catch them when they are down. However, I believe you need to make new rules going forward:

1. No loans

We know why.

2. No mercs

As suggested above, you likely have the upper hand already so you don't need the extra cost of the mercs so soon after recovering the economy (and considering the cost of your own troops you will have to pay for as your armies start getting depleted.)

@coz1 Okay, yes, yes... I know loans are bad. And I know mercs are costly and should not long be relied upon.

I have played up to about 1512 in this current game. And throughout this time I've been in situations where I didn't feel my own armies and/or economy could carry me through successfully, but once this war in 1512 is over I do REALLY intend to take some time off (hopefully) and get my loans paid off and the economy settled into a good growth pattern!

To be fair, this is a very German way of running their economy and government. Utterly dependent on continued military success to stave off bankruptcy...because of all the miltiary stuff.

@TheButterflyComposer

I think you're right! This goes back to my earlier Fire Warms the Northern Lands as well. Prussia came back from nearly utter defeat and actual bankruptcy to become a true world power. And (I looked it up) Germany and various German states do seem to have a long history of bankruptcy. I suppose other states did as well.

That said, I AM NOT suggesting I'll go bankrupt in this game -- I swear I'll avoid that at all costs. It won't happen! We shall be strong!

Thank you everybody for your readership, and especially for your comments!

I am hoping to get a new update for this in the next couple of weeks. I have alot going on, but I'm really going to try.

Rensslaer

 

[El Pip]

Not sure where you get the -81 ducats.

Before you took the loan you were at zero (ignoring everything else). When you took the loan and built the church you went to -80. Take it to ten years and you are at -92 compared to where you would have been if you had never taken the loan.

I think you have to include the -80 from the loan, because it needs paying back at some point. Or from a more Renss perspective, that loan is money you could have borrowed later and spent on mercenaries, but you can't because it got spent on a loss making church.

 

[jak7139]

Curious -- what would you recommend? I feel like it's wasteful to destroy a perfectly good fort. But economically is that position defensible?

All forts are good and defensible. But having a fort in defensible terrain (mountains, woods, marsh, etc.) is better than having one in plains. All provinces adjacent to the fort are still able to be occupied freely. But the fort does protect them by auto-unoccupying them (unless an enemy army is currently on top of the fort). The fort also decreases devastation in its provinces and those adjacent to it.

In regards to having too many forts: the more forts you have, the easier your nation is to defend, but it does cost a lot. Forts also increase your army tradition, giving you better generals (can be seen by hovering over your AT in the military tab). One of the mapmodes shows forts and their adjacencies shaded in if you need a better view of things. If you start having overlaps, and your economy is sluggish, it's probably best to delete some of the redundant forts or forts in your interior.

 

[Rensslaer]

Before you took the loan you were at zero (ignoring everything else). When you took the loan and built the church you went to -80. Take it to ten years and you are at -92 compared to where you would have been if you had never taken the loan.

I think you have to include the -80 from the loan, because it needs paying back at some point. Or from a more Renss perspective, that loan is money you could have borrowed later and spent on mercenaries, but you can't because it got spent on a loss making church.

@El Pip okay yes I understand what you're saying now. Basically if you don't have cash to buy improvements don't buy them.

I'm actually intending to write a sequel to this called Pax Germania where I follow this philosophy and attempt to grow via diplo-annexation rather than aggressive conquests. I think it'll be easier because it won't be my first game and I won't be learning on the fly.

All forts are good and defensible. But having a fort in defensible terrain (mountains, woods, marsh, etc.) is better than having one in plains. All provinces adjacent to the fort are still able to be occupied freely. But the fort does protect them by auto-unoccupying them (unless an enemy army is currently on top of the fort). The fort also decreases devastation in its provinces and those adjacent to it.

In regards to having too many forts: the more forts you have, the easier your nation is to defend, but it does cost a lot. Forts also increase your army tradition, giving you better generals (can be seen by hovering over your AT in the military tab). One of the mapmodes shows forts and their adjacencies shaded in if you need a better view of things. If you start having overlaps, and your economy is sluggish, it's probably best to delete some of the redundant forts or forts in your interior.

@jak7139 All this makes sense and it's pretty much what I was thinking. Yes I should pay better attention to the terrain of the province where a fort is.

I'm not familiar with that mapmode - is it one that you can create/choose from the buttons on the far right?

Thanks again for the comments!

This week I'm away from my computer so I haven't been playing games. Along other things I've been reading stuff trying to catch up. I'm reading @coz1's EU 3 AAR 40 Years On: Friedrich von Manstein's Brandenburg, and noticing how much improved EU IV is over EU3.

Look at the image below and notice how relatively huge the provinces were compared to the more numerous provinces in EU IV. More is better in my opinion.

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Add in other aesthetic improvements and mechanics improvements and I'm really impressed. Which is saying something since, as a beta-teamer and writer for EU 3 I pretty well fell in love with EU 3.

I'm still rather fond of Vicky2 and HOI 3 and believe I prefer them over their successors. But EU IV is really something to behold.

Gushing aside, I'll return to writing soon.

Rensslaer

 

[jak7139]

I'm actually intending to write a sequel to this called Pax Germania where I follow this philosophy and attempt to grow via diplo-annexation rather than aggressive conquests. I think it'll be easier because it won't be my first game and I won't be learning on the fly.

That would be interesting to see what you've learned.

I'm not familiar with that mapmode - is it one that you can create/choose from the buttons on the far right?

Yes. EU4 has a lot of mapmodes, much more than the number of slots. But you can bind multiple mapmodes to the same slot/key. Just right-click one of the slots and you can add however many you want to the same key. For example, I keep the political, HRE, and edicts modes all on the same slot. And since I remember that the "w" key is the shortcut for the political mode, I can just use "w" for all three.