• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Civil strife?
It goes with the troubled times for the monarchies,interesting read and make the Dutchmen pay for what they did to Colombia xD
 
I would have to check it to be sure, but AFAIK women weren't allowed to inherit at this point. If Louise wouldbe allowed to inherit, she would be queen and her husband the prince-consort. Yet I think the conservatives will be pushing for Willems son Willem (reallife Willem III) as king. King Gorilla would be an interesting, if borderline insane, addition to an AAR.

Aboutthe political landscape: the Netherlands never had a real conservative party. At this time none ofthe members of parliament where organized yet, as such a thing was seen as ungentlemanly. There was a divide between the liberals, led by Rudolf Thorbecke and the conservative reformed christians, led by Guillaume Groen van Prinsterer. Guess Groen van Prinsterer would be a candidate conservative PM.
 
Tommy: You mean like having Ludwig of Bavaria fill in for the Grand Duke of Oldenburg? No, thank you. I strive for historical accuracy.

I suppose i could use OTL's Willem III as a stand in for Frederik II, should i decide to have him as heir.

Aldriq: That will not be happening, the Dutch Monarchy is still in power today, and in this timeline it's even stronger than in ours. A Constitutional Monarchy with the Social Democrats (our only decent party) in charge is about as close as we'll get to a republic.

Some other countries on the other hand...

Alex: Thank you, but I'm doing this because I enjoy playing Vicky II, writing about it, and reading the AARs of others. I'm not the one willing to spend money to read a good AAR, It is I who should be thanking you for your dedication :)

Danking: But we are the Dutch, how can we make ourselves pay?

FlyingDutchie (1): OTL Willem III is dead, he was in the carriage with his father and mother (as explained in the prologue). and King Gorilla? WTF?

FlyingDutchie (2): That explains why i can't find anything out about them. Did Paradox just put a conservative party in for the sake of it then?

If you have any further knowledge of any of the Dutch political parties that appear in game, please let me know, it may prove useful!
 
Numerous plans for a fertiliser industry were proposed during this time despite an utter lack of demand for fertiliser either home or abroad. Frederik ordered the establishment of an industrial commission to squash any further plans for any such industry, citing that the unsold stockpiles of fertiliser would be a danger to public health.

After reading again i must say that this little strike on the ever dying, and ever beeing built & rebuilt, fertilizer factories is what i like the most in the last update :D

I also appreciate alot how you are able to flesh out the backstory of the events, it really reads like a history accord, great work :)
 
I don't own Victoria 2 yet, so I guess a basic explanation of the Dutch political landscape in the 19th century will have to do: until 1879 there where no official parties in parliament, although a large number of politicians worked together in informal leagues. The largest of these where the liberal and the protestant ones. The catholics didn't enter the political fray until 1880 in a separate league. The first official party was the ARP (anti-revolutionary party), an orthodox-protestant party, founded in 1979. For more info, just look for these people on wikipedia: Rudolf Thorbecke, Guillaume Groen van Prinsterer, Abraham Kuyper, Ferdinand Domela Nieuwenhuis.

King Gorilla was the nickname of Willem III, because of his debauched behaviour. I guess that in this timeline Fredericks second daughter Marie would inherit. Louises marriage with the Swedish king would exclude her from inheriting.

I hope these comments prove to be useful.
 
Tommy: You mean like having Ludwig of Bavaria fill in for the Grand Duke of Oldenburg? No, thank you. I strive for historical accuracy.

I suppose i could use OTL's Willem III as a stand in for Frederik II, should i decide to have him as heir.

:p haha.

You have to admit that sometimes it helps if your using a fictional character. The person you use to represent them can give the readers an idea of what your character's personality is like.
 
Alex (1): It's not that bad in retrospect, Franz Josef established his own Industrial Commission and we still got Luxury Clothes factories popping up EVERY THREE DAYS... I thought Austrian bureaucracy was meant to be efficient?

Alex (2): Tell me about it, that whole chapter was just based on us getting one invention and SoI-ing Colombia.

FlyingDutchie (1): You should get it, Vicky II is a great game. Thanks for the info, the only one of those i have heard of is Thorbecke.

FlyingDutchie (2): She doesn't have to marry the king of Sweden.

FlyingDutchie (3): Will you ever get around to updating that Dutch AAR of yours?

Tommy: Come to think of it, i think you threw all historical plausibility out the window when you used a picture of French troops (les couleurs and all) during the war in Indochina.

In regards to Frederik's heir, what i may do is have two sons: One (who historically died at age 10) who will like his father, be educated in Prussia (we'll assume that he's currently in Berlin, according to Wiki he died in Holland, so by being in Berlin he'd be safe from whatever killed him in Holland) and one which will be born in the 1850's (not necessarily to Frederik and Louise though) and educated in Britain.
 
Do you have any picture of Spaniards fighting Asiatic looking people?
 
The Kingdom of the Netherlands under King Frederik I: 1836 - 1839
Overview
The Kingdom of The Netherlands had lost many of it's colonies to Britain at the Congress of Wien, Thanks primarily to Russia, The Dutch were able to retain their most important colony, The Dutch East Indies.
V2_5.jpg

The Dutch East Indies: the jewel in the Dutch crown.
V2_15.jpg

Dutch possessions in South America
V2_14.jpg

Dutch West Africa
V2_16.jpg

The Great Powers of Europe, circa 1836

Frederik started his reign with a zeal which would resonate throughout his reign. His first concerns were with the army, and the brightest military minds were commissioned to develop new rifles for the army.
V2_2.jpg


Frederik was also determined to continue his father's legacy of improving education and extending the benefits of The Netherlands to all Nederlanders, he commissioned the expansion of schools in the Dutch East Indies, as well as the expansion of the colonial army and navy. The construction of a Naval Base in Batavia was the centrepiece of Frederik's colonial reforms.
V2_9.jpg


Diplomacy
With the formalities of his coronation and his brother and father's funerals taken care of, King Frederik could begin running the country. His father-in-law, King Frederik Wilhelm III of Prussia was delighted that Frederik had taken the throne of Holland and offered an alliance. Frederik, a lifelong Germanophile who spoke German as a first language, was delighted and an alliance was signed on the First of January 1836.
kingofprussia.png

Frederik Wilhelm III, King of Prussia and father of Queen Louise of The Netherlands. The main instigator of the brief Dutch-Prussian Alliance

Great Britain was also quick to secure an alliance with Frederik and The Netherlands. William IV saw an alliance with The Netherlands as securing peace in the Low Countries and hoped an alliance with the Dutch would give the British some moral leverage over the Afrikaners.
william4.png

William IV of Great Britain, guardian of Belgian interests in Europe

Frederik was overjoyed with the alliance proposal, as he said later in his memoirs "An alliance with Great Britain was not something you say no to" The alliance did put The Netherlands and Prussia at odds however, and the alliance between The Netherlands and Prussia was annulled shortly before the Prussian invasion of Austria. The Anglo-Dutch Alliance was signed on the 27th of February 1836.

The Anglo-Dutch Alliance wasn't just well received in Britain and Holland, as Belgium was also a staunch ally of Britain, Leopold hoped that he could make amends with Frederik. Portugal, also a staunch ally of Britain wanted an alliance with Holland to secure it's colony in Timor.
gik.png

Both alliances were rejected, leaving Belgium and Portugal worried about future Dutch Aggression. Portugal's worst fears were soon confirmed on May 8th, 1836...
Coming up next, our first colonial war

That doesn't make sense. The 'Kingdom of The Netherlands' was founded at the congress of Vienna. You surely mean the "The Republic /The Netherlands had lost many of it's/their colonies to Britain at the Congress of Wien, Thanks primarily to Russia, The Dutch were able..."
 
Tommy: Well, there should be some with them fighting Filipinos...

Middelkerke: Good to have you aboard

Matt12th: Thy will be done, good to have you along

Lodewijk (1): and just to point out one sentence you felt it necessary to quote AN ENTIRE UPDATE? do me a big, big favour and edit your post and promise you'll never quote an entire AAR update post again. You also didn't have to double-post...

Lodewijk (2): I meant exactly what I said, the Kingdom of The Netherlands. The Republic of The Netherlands gave it's colonies to Britain, The Batavian Republic/Kingdom of The Netherlands (Bonaparte) therefore lost said colonies to Britain. When The Kingdom of The Netherlands (Oranje) was formed as the successor state to the Republic of The Netherlands, they lost The Republic's former colonies of Ceylon, Malacca, etc. as they were not returned to the new legitimate Dutch state.

Lodewijk (3): Good to have you along nevertheless, always remember you can edit quoted text! :)

Expect an update within the next 24 hours, the next update will not deal with the Royal family or Frederik's successors so if you still have any ideas feel free to share them.
 
Personally I'm not a fan of letting people live beyond their historical lifespan, or letting them have children that never where born. Guess that would make Princess Marie my choice.
Alternatively, the prologue didn't mention Willem III being in the carriage (would be very unlikely for the numbers one and two in the line of succession to sit in the same carriage anyway), so he could have survived. Making him heir gives you a madman to write about for a few years (Frederick became quite old) and will give you the option of including his daughter Queen Wilhelmina, probably the most competent and imperialistic Oranje ever born. She was the richest woman in the world for quite some time because of her savvy investments and wasn't afraid to stand up to either Britain or Germany.
 
In late September 1835, The Prince of Orange embarked on an official visit to Brussels with his wife and young son.
The carriage approached the palace steps, Willem ordered it to halt, and he opened the door, his happiness showed all over his face, he smiled and waved to the large crowd of jubilant Belgians. Leopold was waiting on the top of the palace steps, he waved to Willem and Willem to he, as Willem gestured for his wife and young son to exit the carriage.
FlyingDutchie:

* Although it only refers to him as young son (actually he'd be about 18) I intended that OTL Willem III was the young son killed along with Willem II. The rest of Willem II's line will be left to obscurity, kind of what happened to Frederik and his line in OTL.

* Frederik lived until 1881 in our timeline so having him as king until the late 1870's to late 1880's seems plausible to me.

* It wasn't uncommon to have children travel with their parents, it's not quite the same thing granted, but Franz Josef's daughters traveled with him and his wife on a trip to Hungary against the insistence of his mother, so it's not that implausible.

* Willem's II and III do not exist in this timeline, that is to say Wilhelmina will not be the daughter of Willem III but not to say that there will be no Wilhelmina. ;)

Also, you haven't answered my question about your AAR?
 
Sorry for taking so long to update, my schedule didn't quite work out as I had planned...

After much deliberation, I decided that the next update would make more sense if the Dutch had a Prime Minister, so I decided to elaborate on the political reforms we saw last chapter. Don't consider this a proper chapter, this is more of an interlude. I'm not quite sure when I'll be able to write a proper update.

Notes:
* Our Political Party policy is still only underground, so I've taken a little bit of dramatic licence by allowing them.
* All these parties are fictional, as historically the Dutch had no parties at this time. It is quite likely all further parties will be fictional.
 
Politics in The United Kingdom of The Netherlands Post-1848
The 1848 Constitution and the ONR
The establishment of a democratically-elected parliament in 1848 led to the need for democratic elections. According to the new constitution, only those with a peerage from the monarch could vote, stand for election or sit in the upper house [renamed Ridderkamer (Knights Chamber), but colloquially called by it's old name Erste Kamer (First Chamber)]. The Ridderkamer met once every two weeks and was responsible for the creation of new legislature, which if passed, would be passed on to the King for approval. The lower house [Burgerkamer (Citizen's Chamber) or Tweede Kamer (Second Chamber)] would meet every week with the members of the Ridderkamer and petition it's members to sponsor proposals for new legislation. Representatives for the Burgerkamer were elected at a provincial level, with any male commoner over the age of 21 able to stand or election or vote but had no official power, they could only suggest.

This was a huge coup by Frederik; any resolution proposed by the lower house no matter how popular could be vetoed by the upper house, and any resolution proposed by the upper house no matter how popular could be vetoed by him. The Staten-Generaal was in effect, a figurehead. Nevertheless it gave the people the impression that they had a say in their own future, and Frederik was so popular among Nederlanders that few expressed outrage at the new constitution, even among the Liberals.

One thing was certain however, in order to keep the liberals happy Frederik would need to make sure they had some representation in the upper house, which would mean he would need to give at least some of them peerages. To combat this problem, Frederik established a new, revolutionary Order of knighthood: The Order of the Dutch Empire (De Orde van de Nederlandse Rijk) The Order was revolutionary in that it was meant to be awarded to Nederlanders from all walks of life and from all over the Empire.

The new Order had five classes: (in order from highest to lowest)
Ridder Grootkruis (knight grand cross, GNR)
Ridder Commandeur (knight commander, CNR)
Ridder (knight, KNR)
Schildknaap (squire, SNR)
Page (PNR)

ODE.png

Order of the Dutch Empire: Third Class (Ridder). Although only the top three classes were considered knights, the ONR of any class was still considered a peerage and thus any recipient was entitled the right to vote

The first ONR was awarded on the 28th of February (King's Birthday) 1851, roughly 18 months before the first elections were scheduled (August 1852). the Order has been awarded on the birthday of the reigning monarch ever since. Recipients included military men such as Ruben van Wassenaer (GNR) and David Tasman (CNR), civil servants and bureaucrats such as Liberal leader Johan Rudolf Thorbecke (SNR) and Gouverneur-generaal of the Dutch East Indies, Jan Jacob Rochussen (SNR), scientists and inventors such as Petrus Kipp (PNR) and writers and artists such as Eduard Dekker (PNR). The first foreign recipient was Andries Pretorius, former Prime Minister of the Natalian Republic (CNR) who also became the recipient of the first posthumous award when he died one year later in 1853 (GNR).

The Formation of Parties and The 1852 Election
With the first election set to commence in August 1852, politicians quickly formed factions based on their respective ideologies. By August 1852, politicians were divided into four factions, two major parties and two minor parties.

The Royalist Party: (Oranje Partij) Conservative Faction
The Royalist Party strongly favoured King Frederik's current policies and the 1848 constitution; they supported low taxes and high tariffs, religious pluralism (freedom of religion, but not separation of church from state), increased education and military spending, as well as religious education and keeping Dutch as the language of instruction. Most of their support came from the Pro-Imperialist lobbies, and they were the most vocal supporters of Ethische Politiek and expanding the Dutch Empire. On the 21st of April they elected writer Eduard Dekker as their first leader, with Chief of Staff Ruben van Wassenaer as deputy leader.

EduardDekker.png

Eduard Dekker was chosen due to his popularity with the King and People, and for his role in the old Pro-Imperialist lobby. Although a writer by profession, he had experience in administration, working as a civil servant in the Dutch East Indies

The Liberale Partij: (Liberal Party) Reformist Faction
The Liberale Party was made up by republican and bourgeois elements in Dutch society, thus they were strong campaigners of Free Trade and further political reforms, like increasing the vote to commoners and increasing the legislative power of the Burgerkamer, stopping short of full republicanism instead favouring a constitutional monarchy in the style of Great Britain. They favoured keeping the status quo in regards to religious and colonial policy. They were led by political veteran Professor Johan Rudolf Thorbeke with Gerrit Schimmelpenninck serving as deputy leader.

thorbecke.png

Thorbecke was chosen as leader due to his popularity among the people of The Netherlands and the respect he commanded in Dutch political circles. He was elected party leader on February 1st 1853 after defeating Jacob de Kempenaer. Gerrit was chosen as deputy leader because Jacob resigned from politics shortly after.

The Agricultural Party: (Landbouw Partij) Reactionary Faction
The Agricultural Party was made up of "Traditional" Aristocrats, primarily land and plantation owners. They were deeply conservative and strongly favoured the monarchy and the Reformed Church. They supported the disillusion of the Burgerkamer, restricting the civil rights of Catholics, the establishment of a "Jizya" tax to be paid by all Catholics and non-Protestants, high tariffs and intervention in South Africa on behalf of the Boers. Like the Royalists they favoured expanding the empire, but promoted a return to the Cultivation System and the revocation of Ethische Politiek.

The Radical Party: (Radicalisme) Walloon & Catholic Separatists
The Radical Party were the predecessors of the WNP; officially they favoured secularism, universal suffrage (for men 21 years or over) free trade, reduced education and military spending and government decentralisation. Unofficially they supported the (re)establishment of an independent Belgian state and the Catholic Church and Decolonisation. They had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the Election as there were few Southern Catholic Aristocrats, nevertheless they contested the Election.

Election1852.png

Election Results by seats: The Royal Party won the election with a slight majority (10 seats) over the Liberales (9) with the Agricultural Party (3) splitting the conservative vote in the northern countryside.

pie1852.jpg

The Ridderkamer after the 1852 election: 52.3% Royalist, 37.1% Liberale, 8.8% Agricultural and 1.8% Radical

The Royalist Party had won the right to form a minority government by entering a coalition with the Agricultural Party. Eduard Dekker was sworn in as the First Prime Minister of The United Kingdom of The Netherlands on the 12th of December 1852.
 
Nice little look at Dutch politiks. I wonder what Dekker will be like as PM.
 
Very interresting interlude, thank you Tanzhang! :)
 
Seems a bit odd that the Royalists are forming a minority government after getting over 50% of the vote.

How is that possible?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.