Before Plantagenet – A House d’Anjou AAR

[JabberJock14]

A fine example of Geoffrey’s calculating and brilliant mind. Here he is at his most diplomatic and look at the effect it has on Thouars, Renaud, even Champagne. Bravo sir

A gameplay question though: when you have 3 Duchies will you not have to destroy one to avoid the too many held Duchies malus?

Thanks. This was actually a fun chapter because it's kind of the first where Geoffrey has been allowed to stand on his own. Almost all his others have been him ultimately interacting with his father. Here he is on his own, where I could play up his political strengths in handling these different people. We finally see a different type of way of getting one's way other than Darth Foulques.

Yeah, as others noted below, having more than two duchies only gets you into trouble if you become king. In fact, Guilhem has three from the start - he has Poitou/Aquitaine and Gascony. Thus it is entirely feasible for Geoffrey to hold the titles of Anjou, Aquitaine and Poitou - and is possible his son could one day hold Anjou, Aquitaine, Poitou AND Gascony. Where it gets tricky is keeping all those vassals happy where most get the -20 "wants duchy X". In Geoffrey's case, he easily hold all of Anjou without any vassals, as Foulques does. (It honestly would be possible with a little effort to have Anjou, Brittany, Aquitaine, Gascony, Poitou, Bourbon and Berry - not saying I will, but it definitely is possible) But Poitou and Aquitaine will have vassals, and most will come with that -20 penalty.

However... Geoffrey's diplomacy is so high, he gets a massive relationship boost with everyone. Something else to keep in mind.

Ah...and that ambition can't be cancelled either so I guess you're going to have to roll with it, unless the game kills Geoffrey really anticlimactically six months into your control of him. Either way, this makes complete sense, as when he does inherit what he's set up for, he'll have more than enough to at the very least match an alliance of the next two strongest dukes combined (which is more than can be said for the last three kings of France...). Still, this might be a little too soon. If I were him and had lots to gain and lots to lose, I'd finish the conquest of Brittany first. It's a safe set of wars, no one in France is going to complain and it seals tight a potential front in a civil claimant war.

Plus if and when you do become king of France, you can immediately make yourself king of Brittany as well (and own every county in it, making you virtually untouchable in CKII). Then the game and story becomes less about feudal lords fighting and jostling for position and power and more a centralising kingdom with an unshakable (-ish) monarch trying to decide what to do next. Should be very interesting if he and you pull that off in Geoffrey's lifetime. Though his womanising will become the key threat at that point (in fact, possibly the only one at that).

The duchy thing only applies to rulers with a higher rank than duke, I think. Not sure, but when I'm a petty king, I can have as many other petty kingdoms (i.e. duchies) as I want. Making myself king gives me more prestige, power and vassal control but means I have to have a slightly smaller private realm (or at least fewer duchies. County numbers depends on laws and stewardship).

Yeah, I was not pleased to see that ambition. Even if I don't pick it, I can't cancel it, which is annoying. And yet another hazard of letting your character's offspring gain land. But then, Geoffrey didn't give me a choice. Yet that's actually why Geoffrey has become interesting to me, the more I've thought about and written the character. He's wrote his own story, completely ignoring my whims. What makes it more impressive to me, than say, Philippe or Champagne, is that I exerted minimum gameplay influence with Foulques (aiding in Philippe's war against Gilles) on them. But Geoffrey? He's basically made himself this character, irrespective of my wishes, right down to his attempted seduction of his sister. It's caused me to rethink things about the future of the AAR in terms of how I played it.

Brittany actually is ripe for the plucking - it hasn't really been discussed, because France has had far bigger issues, but the English meddled there and installed a Norman duke as an independent count in Rennes. It's an odd situation because he won't bow to the Breton king, he won't bow to the English king, and no French character has claim over it. Brittany is admittedly one of my targets for expansion. Spoilers which aren't really spoilers - I'm looking at Gascony - for historical reasons and the fact Foulques the younger will have a claim. Brittany, because it borders. Normandy if I get good reason eventually - Geoffrey Plantagenet conquered it during the Anarchy after all. And of course England. There's two other sort of targets I would consider, one more than the other, that I'll leave to mystery for now. And last, France now, because Geoffrey wants it.

I'll also stress these are more long-term goals - set for post-Foulques.

Also, Geoffrey's womanizing isn't necessarily the end of the world if he avoids the Great Pox and insanity. But who he tries to seduce... I checked a later save and no, AI Geoffrey doesn't seem to have learned his lesson.

So now he dreams, perhaps for loftier things than being a grandest nobleman in the realm (once his father dies). The King is right to fear.

I agree with @Asantahene - this chapter very effectively conveyed how Geoffrey's mind works, the calculation and constant comparisons.

Yes, the king is right to fear. And fear can lead to... poor decisions. But that's for next chapter.

I enjoyed writing it. I also kind of enjoyed the Champagne bit partially because, while it's not shown what Champagne is thinking, I imagine both men spinning and jockeying for position with their words, all while quickly spewing out BS to one another. They are two of a kind - Geoffrey has more potential, but Champagne is a veteran of the game.

Great read as always. This really moves things along - looking forward to see what Geoffrey makes of his position over time and how he deals with the Champagne-Hugues nexus.

Thanks! How that nexus is dealt with may surprise. The king... well he's not Philippe, I'll say that.

I can't help but juxtapose Foulques' contentment with his lot as Duke of Anjou balanced with his ambition for his family versus Geoffrey's lust for more of everything. It'll be interesting to see if Foulques somehow dies the happier man than his son. It's good to see more and more of Geoffrey laid bare as he'll no doubt be the star of the show for quite a while here shortly.

French nobles are such snakes lol.

An interesting thought, that. I limited Foulques toward his supposed real life goal of reclaiming Angevin influence lost under the last years of his uncle and his brother's rule, so that helps. Thus he never wished to be king. But Geoffrey... the man idolizes arguably history's greatest politician. Just reclaiming Saintonge probably isn't going to cut it.

We'll definitely see more Geoffrey going forward because the story is going to allow for it, and I'd be crazy not to take the opportunity. I am unsure how many chapters we'll get from his perspective - it will fall into how it feels when I get to each part.

And yes, yes they are snakes. A recurring theme all must learn.

Geoffrey has accomplished quite a lot! I can't help but see that he and his son will undoubtedly overshadow Foulques actions in the future.

Foulques' great fear! Geoffrey has the potential to - he's starting from a stronger position and could turn those gains into more. Philip II was a great mind in his own right, but Alexander is who turned his armies into an empire. Or, a comparison Geoffrey would more likely enjoy, Julius Caesar laid the foundation to make himself Emperor but Octavian is the one who actually did it.

IMHO Geoffrey should have at least taken Poitiers as well, since there was the court of the duke of the great duchy of Aquitaine (so including Poitou and Gascony and some other bits).
Other than that, I have very much enjoyed the read thus far.

I wished that he could have! But claim wars in CK2... I think I have them figured out now. If you fight a claim war for a duchy, and you have no territory, you get the capital county in the duchy. If you fight a claim for a duchy and you already have territory, you just get the title even if your territory is all in the other duchy. Since Geoffrey had Bordeaux and a barony, he didn't get anything in Poitou except the duchy title. Which is annoying and caused me to have to write the generous peace terms bit.

But I'm glad you enjoyed it otherwise!

A foregone conclusion, yet one very much of Geoffrey's taste. Even if he made small concessions and had to deal with Champagne. He might want to look at the positive things - if Patricia does rebel, then he will be able to rightfully seize Saintonge. And as he thought, it is one more step to where he can be.

I've got a feeling though that control is slowly slipping away from Champagne, who has played the game master role in France very well so far.

There are sometimes in CK2 where the drama simply isn't the result, it's how we get to the result we all know is coming. Poitou felt like that - I did my best to create tension, but Geoffrey was never going to lose it with Patricia weakened from fighting on two fronts. And when Foulques entered, all doubt was removed.

But yes, in some ways, Patricia rebelling could be a good thing for him - it would be excuse to rip away her lands.

Your feeling on Champagne... it's not wrong. But can he arrest it? The next two chapters will certain shed some light on it. There may be some twists people are not expecting.

Good news on the writing front - I've mostly knocked out the next two chapters and made headway into the third. So that should keep the updates timely. Looking at the next one late tomorrow or Sunday. It is definitely one to go along with this one, also from Geoffrey's perspective, and... you'll see when it hits.

As always great to read your comments and feedback! It is always much appreciated!

 

[Badesumofu]

On Geoffrey, I don't think I've ever seen an AI character play in such a human-like way (other than the ill-considered seductions). Maybe they are and I'm just not looking closely enough. But certainly I've never had my heir strike out on his own and carve out a realm like Geoffrey has. Makes for a great story because not all the key action is driven by Foulques. He lives in a world that operates independently of him which is rare for a player character in a computer game.

If Geoffrey keeps up the player-style tactics then I suppose the next move is to provoke Patricia into a revolt so he can revoke her counties.

 

[Bullfilter]

1. Geoffrey is probably more Darth Sidious. The chancellor who wants to be Emperor. Also, a different kind of mask, but a mask he wears nonetheless.

2. Fear leads to the Dark Side. Always.

 

[Asantahene]

Foulques' great fear! Geoffrey has the potential to - he's starting from a stronger position and could turn those gains into more. Philip II was a great mind in his own right, but Alexander is who turned his armies into an empire. Or, a comparison Geoffrey would more likely enjoy, Julius Caesar laid the foundation to make himself Emperor but Octavian is the one who actually did it.

I’m just loving how you’re playing him

 

[Iwantdumplings]

I'm always impressed how you manage to keep your leads charismatic and supportable for all their flaws... Now we have Littlefinger as well as Lord Vader.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

I think the seduction focus is a work of genius given how it allows the AI to make incredibly human like decisions which then open up even for options for exploitation whilst at the same time brining down the wrath of the rest of the realm onto said character. Geoffrey's just the most successful example I've seen (which adds pressure all on it so own-will the human player cock it all up once control is regained? Or will the player deliberately slap down this upstart crow for daring to play his own game regardless of player wishes?). At the very least I think it adds some historical believability. We can certainly see why Geoffrey would end up king of somewhere, much more likely than foulques.

 

[guillec87]

Ubris... a bad omen...

 

[JabberJock14]

On Geoffrey, I don't think I've ever seen an AI character play in such a human-like way (other than the ill-considered seductions). Maybe they are and I'm just not looking closely enough. But certainly I've never had my heir strike out on his own and carve out a realm like Geoffrey has. Makes for a great story because not all the key action is driven by Foulques. He lives in a world that operates independently of him which is rare for a player character in a computer game.

If Geoffrey keeps up the player-style tactics then I suppose the next move is to provoke Patricia into a revolt so he can revoke her counties.

Neither have I. It's what makes him so fascinating and part of why I'm rethinking of how to handle things post-Foulques. There were things about him that I simply was unaware of when I played originally, and it feels almost... a betrayal to the character to not consider them when I get in control of him. There's something AI Geoffrey seems content to repeat... and I have to decide whether I want to indulge him when I get control.

CK2 is good about this though. I'd bet you'd find some pretty fascinating AI controlled characters if you followed them. But normally, we don't have incentive too.

Patricia isn't going away. But this is one situation where Geoffrey being so good at diplomacy hurts him. His vassals mostly love him. So Patricia may have some trouble getting support for a revolt.

1. Geoffrey is probably more Darth Sidious. The chancellor who wants to be Emperor. Also, a different kind of mask, but a mask he wears nonetheless.

2. Fear leads to the Dark Side. Always.

Hmm... Darth Sideous. Maybe with a touch of Count Dooku - there's a bit of haughtiness to him.

"Master Kenobi, you disappoint me. Yoda has spoken so highly of you. Surely you can do better!" - I could imagine old Geoffrey saying that to someone eventually.

If he can become king though, then Darth Sideous definitely becomes apt.

Fear and insecurity is something we're going to be seeing in Melun in the near future.

I’m just loving how you’re playing him

Thanks! Hope I can continue with that.

I'm always impressed how you manage to keep your leads charismatic and supportable for all their flaws... Now we have Littlefinger as well as Lord Vader.

Thanks! I'm very cautious with my characters doing over the top stuff, just so that they don't become totally unlikable. We'll see if Geoffrey can maintain his Littlefinger reputation as he goes through the ups and downs of being a duke in France.

I think the seduction focus is a work of genius given how it allows the AI to make incredibly human like decisions which then open up even for options for exploitation whilst at the same time brining down the wrath of the rest of the realm onto said character. Geoffrey's just the most successful example I've seen (which adds pressure all on it so own-will the human player cock it all up once control is regained? Or will the player deliberately slap down this upstart crow for daring to play his own game regardless of player wishes?). At the very least I think it adds some historical believability. We can certainly see why Geoffrey would end up king of somewhere, much more likely than foulques.

It can - see Gilles, who managed to annoy plenty of people with his actions. Geoffrey isn't quite to that level, yet anyway. But his impulses and AI desires represent a very big decision for the future. I think he's earned a long look at whether or not I should do things his way, for all the trouble that might provide.

Ubris... a bad omen...

Just wait until the next chapter...

Which follows now! Hope you all enjoy. Thanks for the comments and feedback!

 

[JabberJock14]

Before Plantagenet - Chapter 118
May 1103 - Melun, France

“An alliance?”

Geoffrey spoke the words, even though he’d heard them. It was to buy time in the talks with the old, bald, fat count before him.

“Yes, an alliance,” Robert of Artois said. “A fairly simple thing to agree to, considering the Duke would be wed to your sister.”

It was no simple thing, Geoffrey thought.

The discussions with Artois, regent for Duke Arnulf, progressed well enough. But this demand for a formal alliance would prove troublesome, and Geoffrey knew it.

His father wished for friendship. He did not wish to be committed to aiding the child duke. Foulques only had one remaining alliance - with him. His father wished to pick his wars - not be dragged into them as he had done to the old dukes, Robert of Burgundy and Guilhem of Aquitaine.

“I would consider it,” Geoffrey replied.

“With all due respect, Duke Geoffrey,” Artois replied, “It is not you we seek the alliance with at this time.”

Geoffrey resisted a frown. A reminder he might be the heir to the so called "Iron Duke of the Franks", but he would always be the lesser of them while his father lived. But...

“My father will not live forever,” Geoffrey said.

Artois sipped his wine. “But he lives now. Tell me, what is the problem? Do you not have an alliance with Duke Alphonse?”

“No,” Geoffrey said. “We do not. We are friendly. But not formal alliance has been drawn up, yet.”

Artois’ brow rose. “The boy must have been desperate.”

“Our friendship is valuable, even if our levy is not guaranteed in all circumstances,” Geoffrey said.

“Not guaranteed. Then what good is it?” Artois asked.

“No levy is guaranteed,” Geoffrey said. “Even in an alliance. We are just honest about it.”

Artois eyed Geoffrey before replying: “Your decency knows no bounds.”

Dripping with sarcasm, but Geoffrey could not blame him. He hated doing this negotiation. It was as if he was trying to do this with a hand tied behind his back - regardless of what his father claimed, he was not negotiating for himself. He did this for Foulques - if he came to terms the Duke of Anjou did not like, there was every chance he would refuse to honor the arrangement.

“Think on the matter,” Geoffrey said. “There is no rush after all. Duke Arnulf is but eight summers. And my sister is even younger.”

“Yes,” Artois said as he stood up. “It has been a pleasure Duke Geoffrey.”

“Likewise,” Geoffrey replied.

Artois moved to the door to the chamber before stopping and glancing back. “You have a son, do you not, Duke Geoffrey?”

“I do,” Geoffrey replied. “What of it?”

“I have granddaughters,” Artois replied. “Perhaps we might find a match there.”

“Would such a match help… further things along with my sister?” Geoffrey asked.

“I would could certainly be able to better vouch for the word of your house, if ours were joined,” Artois said.

Geoffrey smirked. “An interesting thought. Another thing to consider.”

It was bribery - Artois trying to use Arnulf to prop up his own family. But it also wasn’t surprising and humoring the old count might be in his benefit.

“I shall send word to my daughter Helvis,” Artois said. “Perhaps you could meet with her on your next visit to Burgundy?”

“I would be honored to,” Geoffrey replied.

Artois bowed before him and moved to leave. He nearly bumped into Alias of Perigord as he did, with the younger, slender count just narrowly sidestepping the collision.

“Watch yourself,” Artois sneered.

“My apologies, Count Robert,” Alias replied with a bow.

Artois glared at him, but said nothing else. Geoffrey smirked as he poured out another cup for his chancellor - he was effective at disarming opposition like that.

“Deftly done,” Geoffrey said as he gave him the wine.

“I did not wish for him to blame you for leaving your chambers on a poor note,” Alias replied as he took the cup. “Did it go well?”

“It went,” Geoffrey replied. “We are at an impasse - because he does not wish to negotiate with me, but my father.”

“Has he no view to the future?” Alias asked.

“Artois may not live to see that future,” Geoffrey said. “He is old. He looks to get his. He wishes for me to meet with his daughter, Helvis, to discuss a marriage of her daughter to my son.”

“Not her husband?”

“Artois wishes to know we will aid him,” Geoffrey said. “I will meet with Robert of Burgundy, but… I suspect it will be Helvis I shall need to convince.”

“Without promising your son to her, I imagine,” Alias noted.

Geoffrey tapped his nose to which Alias raised his cup to him.

“I bring better news than that,” Alias said after taking a drink. “News from Bayeux. Your sister Bella has birthed a boy.”

The news slowly processed in Geoffrey’s mind. His sister had a son… a prince… a future king, who was also his nephew? A king who would be my nephew…

He knew it had benefits and had long considered them. But now that it could actually happen...

A smile formed on his face as he poured himself some more wine, then another cup for Alias.

“This is excellent news indeed,” Geoffrey said. “A toast to my sister! And to the new prince!”

“Hear, hear!” Alias said as he raised his cup.

“Send Bella a gift,” Geoffrey said. “The usual - a couple of casks of wine. Buy a mare for her, and for her husband, a stallion. Also have a sword made for the new prince. I think that should cover it.”

“It will be done my lord,” Alias said.

Their celebrations were cut short, however, by a knock on the door. Alias moved to answer it to reveal a messenger from the king. He wished to see Geoffrey immediately.

“What do you think this is about?” Alias wondered.

“Perhaps he is to send me somewhere,” Geoffrey said. “I have been waiting here for something to do for over a month now.”

“I still think that odd,” Alias said. “I would be wary.”

Geoffrey nodded. Alias had told him that he heard the king grew dissatisfied with him. Talk differed as to why - some said Geoffrey sought to rule through the king, others claimed he sought to enrich himself and others still whispered that Foulques used Geoffrey, and perhaps the king, as a puppetmaster.

Laughable, Geoffrey thought, my father a puppetmaster? He hasn’t the mind for such things.

Nor did he have the access these days. The smallpox epidemic left him with little ways to communicate to the outside. He was neutered in Anjou at the moment, and aside from the talks with Artois over marriage, Geoffrey felt more free than he had in some time.

Still, he would be cautious in his words with the king here, as Hugues sat in his strategy hall, Philipp of Champagne by his side. Both men looked stoic, their faces refusing to betray emotion.

“You summoned me, my king,” Geoffrey said as he dropped to a knee.

“I have, Duke Geoffrey,” the king replied. “Duke Philipp?”

“Duke Geoffrey,” Champagne began, “you have been a good, faithful servant of the realm for nearly two years now. Your king thanks you for such service.”

“It has been my pleasure,” Geoffrey said.

“However, there have been unfortunate rumors,” Champagne said. “While we do not doubt your loyalty to the crown, the questions of your interests have… grown louder."

“My interests remain with the crown,” Geoffrey replied. He did not like being dressed down and he would defend himself against such accusations. “The king’s reputation grows across the realm. While his virtuous life and sound treatment of his vassals is a large reason, the words I speak on his behalf also matter.”

“Your abilities are not the concern,” Champagne continued. “In fact, this situation is unfortunate as your way with words have been an asset to the king thus far. And…”

“Enough,” the king said as he raised his hand. “Since my marshal seems to lack the strength to say what needs to be said, I shall. Duke Geoffrey, I am relieving you of your duties as chancellor.”

The blood rushed from his face - it felt as though it had left his body entirely. He felt cold, numb, almost removed from it all.

Relieved of duties?

He did not know how long he remained motionless. But when Geoffrey did move, it was slow and just a shake of the head, that continued as he managed to get out: “Relieved of duties?”

“You are to return to Aquitaine and… Poitou, which you so desired,” the king said. “You shall represent the crown no longer.”

“You fire me?” Geoffrey asked. “Why?”

“I question who you represent,” the king said. “I do not know if it is your father, or yourself. But I am convinced that whoever it is, I come well after they.”

“I do not know what you mean,” Geoffrey insisted. “I have done my best to improve the reputation of the crown throughout the realm. Not an easy task, given that many were sore over your brother’s death and believe you involved.”

“You accuse me?” the king demanded as he rose from the throne.

Geoffrey wished to say yes. But he knew better.

“No, I know you did not,” Geoffrey said. “But you speak of rumors, treating them as fact, when they are not. Many despise my family, and wish to see myself and my father brought low.”

“So it is only rumor you negotiate with Robert of Artois over a marriage?” the king demanded.

“My family are not thralls,” Geoffrey said. “We exist in the realm and must take part in it - that includes marriage.”

“Yet I do not see you attempting to marry off my daughters,” the king replied.

Geoffrey was not certain how to respond. He had not found a particularly good union for either daughter. But his attention had been diverted elsewhere.

“I was unaware that was a priority,” Geoffrey said.

“And that is why you are relieved of your duties,” the king said. “Such things should have been apparent.”

Geoffrey frowned. Inside he was seething. He searches for an excuse, any excuse to be rid of me. And it is likely Champagne who whispers into his ear.

“If that is your will,” Geoffrey said as he bowed once more. “I will be away from Melun with great haste.”

“It would be for the best,” the king said. “If I have need of you, in a different role, I send for your services.”

Geoffrey rolled his eyes before quickly departing the hall.

…

He would have been gone from Melun that day if he could, but he knew preparations for the journey back to Bordeaux would take at least a day.

So angry was he that he thought of riding to an inn and spending the night there, and allowing the remainder of his entourage to catch up with him in a day or two.

Alias counseled against it. “You must hold your head high” he insisted. “They wish to bring you low. You must show them that you serve at your will, not theirs.”

Sound advice. Alias was not the best talker, but he understood how the game worked.

“What shall you do upon your return to Bordeaux?” Alias asked.

“We still fight. I will be able to see first hand how Gerard of Thouars functions as my marshal,” Geoffrey replied. “Once we finish with Uc… we will see.”

A knock at the door. Alias checked on it and the guest was a surprising one to Geoffrey - Philipp of Champagne.

“I shall rid you of him,” Alias said.

Given the rumors surrounding Alias, Geoffrey briefly wondered if his chancellor meant something more than simply his presence here. But Geoffrey shook his head and motioned for him to enter. Champagne did so and greeted the two men with a nod of the head. But he lingered on Alias.

“If you do not mind, Alias of Perigord,” Champagne said, “I have a matter I must speak to the duke about, in private.”

A request that was likely to draw Alias’ ire internally. But externally, he remained composed, bowing before Champagne and wishing him well.

“Thank you for seeing me,” Champagne said after the door closed.

“What do you want?” Geoffrey demanded.

“To apologize,” Champagne said. “That I could not prevent this.”

“I am certain you are just broken up that I am not to remain on the council,” Geoffrey told him.

“I suspected you would believe me responsible,” Champagne said. “However, I swear I not only had nothing to do with it, but I fought for you to remain.”

“And I should believe you, why?” Geoffrey demanded.

“Because of who the king has chosen as your replacement,” Champagne replied. “Alphonse.”

Geoffrey spit out his drink. “Alphonse? The prince? The Duke of Valois?”

“The one and the same,” Champagne said. “Madness, I thought, to bring him to Melun. You give him legitimacy. But… the king was insistent. He is aware of the rumors you mentioned. And to me… he confides to me he seeks to dispel them by raising his nephew.”

Geoffrey shook his head. “He confides in you that?”

“Yes,” Champagne said. “But I think that just part of it. I believe he grows weary of our power on the council. So he sought to remove our alliance, and replace you with someone who would never ally with me. Alphonse…”

Geoffrey did not need to hear any more. Alphonse would never ally with the man who brought ruin to his father, and had imprisoned him for much of his life. That lent credence to what Champagne said…

“So you lose influence,” Geoffrey said. “But at least you keep your seat on the council.”

“Aye, but it is not all bad for you,” Champagne said. “You can consolidate your victory in Poitou. And you and your father can work together - you can achieve much.”

Geoffrey eyed him. He was trying to seem helpful but all he did was point out the obvious. He feared both of those things, and was working to make certain he was not the target of their ire.

“You do not need to fear,” Geoffrey said. “I have no aims to repay you for this - I believe you when you say you had nothing to do with it.”

“You are as wise as you are gracious,” Champagne said.

Geoffrey resisted an eye roll. Instead, he responded in kind. “As the king said, I may be needed in the future. And when that time comes, I shall be ready to offer my services once more.”

What Champagne would tell the king, Geoffrey did not know. But he would not make it easy for him to make him the villain - at least not before he was ready to assume the role.

“Safe travels in your return to Aquitaine, my friend,” Champagne said. “And if you see him before I do, give my regards to your father. I hope to see him again soon.”

“I shall,” Geoffrey said.

And with that Champagne left the chamber. Geoffrey watched him every step of the way. He was angry… angry at the king, angry at Champagne, even, to a degree, Alphonse.

But this battle was lost. Time was on his side. Eventually, he would have his father’s massive levy under his control. And then… they would all come to him.

Until then, he had other things he could call upon...

 

[tpmcinty]

Interesting turn of events for Geoffrey. I wouldn't believe Champagne if I were Geoffrey. In many ways the king and Champagne show how short sighted and foolish they are. Or maybe they are just too sure of themselves. You would hope they would have thought out what could happen once they make an enemy out the man who will someday control the largest levy in the kingdom.

 

[Specialist290]

I can't help but imagine Foulques trying to suppress a smug little grin upon getting the news that the son is indeed following in the father's footsteps Of course, that grin won't last long, once he realizes that his last real hope of keeping a reliable ally in the King's council has disappeared. In any case, it looks like the winds are starting to blow from an unfavorable quarter for the Angevins, and I don't imagine the father will take this slight to his family -- compounded as it is with his own initial dismissal -- any more easily.

Putting Alphonse on the council may ultimately be a futile gesture in the long run, but in the short term it's an unexpectedly shrewd move for Hughes -- aside from dispelling the rumors, it also keeps him from forming factions of his own, if I recall my game mechanics correctly.

And on a tangential note to the rest of the update -- looking at Alias's traits and his relationship score with Geoffrey, I do have to wonder if there's a little more going on with their dynamic than that of a liege lord and his loyal vassal (at least on Alias's part)...

 

[alscon]

Antagonizing the Angevins to try to appease an Alphonse who hates him with a passion might not be the smartest move of Hugues. Especially not with somebody as ambitious as Geoffrey. Champagne senses it, but he is losing control.

Alias now perfectly fills his role of loyal sidekick. Although one must ask if "getting rid of" Champagne would be a good idea - the sudden vacuum would definitely impact France. Due to that loyalty, I am seconding Specialist here, even if the count stands no chance for Geoffrey to return these feelings.

 

[PVT Ascoobis]

I have to agree with @Specialist290 here as well. With Foulques and Geoffrey neutered by the marraige to Bella, putting his other Dukes on the council is a brilliant move. Little genius Leonard is his salvation right now. If War Declaration Committee is enabled, the Angevins and the council members are effectively his completely loyal vassals until and unless he does something stupid. But then, we've not seen the crown laws in quite a while, and that "Decreased Council Power" opinion modifier indicates that something changed recently.

Either way, i'm thinking you probably should have picked a single horse to back in this race. The AI is playing really well in this game, surprisingly.

 

[stnylan]

I must also concur with @Specialist290 - in particular because I think Foulques is going to find this very amusing. I hope he gets it out of his system by the time he next sees Geoffrey, otherwise father and son may have a rather fraught meeting.

But then, they could have a very productive meeting - I do wonder here if the King might regret this. Father and son both now have grievances, and whilst both may be pacified in the short term, now they have a greater freedom. And I am quite convinced that they not be prevented from acting in their interest's merely by Bella's marriage. Geoffrey is too calculated, and Foulques is too practical, for that.

 

[guillec87]

poor Alphonse, he is not responsible for the deeds of others, I hope this do not affect the friendship between Anjou and Normandie in the future

 

[Asantahene]

Good grief. Well that was unexpected. I love how you write that meeting with the king and the continuous little peccadilloes of Geoffrey’s (the eye roll is one I find particularly effective and amusing haha)

Others have already commented on the wisdom or not of antagonising the D’Anjou’s. I agree but a question. How is Bella’s son to be king? What did I miss?

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Are they trying to garuntee a civil war as soon as possible? Do they think they can win such an engagement and be rid of some potential enemies or are they just morons? Because this was a damaged realm already. Replacing a good and powerful chancellor who wants to be king and replacing him with a nonentity who can't get diplomacy into double figures is going to do nothing for the popularity of the crown.

I can only assume the crown and the council have decided they are going to treat Geoffrey as if he hates them, wants to kill all of them and is plotting against them. Because they can deal with that now...with some difficulty. But if they leave it until after he becomes duke of Anjou as well, they can't deal with him. Not without a major civil war.

This is both a really shortsighted and far too long sighted plan, which all but garuntees them a powerful enemy that up until that point they might have swayed to their side. There is some brilliance to it but at the same time, some really stupid stuff as well. In other historical examples, doing this sort of thing almost never works in the way the king wants...unless he follows it up with a lot of force and immediately at that. Declare war immediately, arrest him, assassinate him and excommunicate him if possible. But the king can't do that because foulques is still alive. And the new king coming down hard on a rising vassal won't endear him to everyone else. There's ways I can see this working and many I can see that would wreck lots of things. In the end it just seems to be a weird game thing to try and write around.

 

[JabberJock14]

Interesting turn of events for Geoffrey. I wouldn't believe Champagne if I were Geoffrey. In many ways the king and Champagne show how short sighted and foolish they are. Or maybe they are just too sure of themselves. You would hope they would have thought out what could happen once they make an enemy out the man who will someday control the largest levy in the kingdom.

I wouldn't believe Champagne either. Champagne is motivated by self-interest... but the King I'd say it more fear and insecurity. He's not content to be a king in name only. And he's trying to establish his authority. Of course, many kings who try that end up with rebellions they can't squash.

But the king hasn't forgotten about Foulques yet. Trust me.

I can't help but imagine Foulques trying to suppress a smug little grin upon getting the news that the son is indeed following in the father's footsteps Of course, that grin won't last long, once he realizes that his last real hope of keeping a reliable ally in the King's council has disappeared. In any case, it looks like the winds are starting to blow from an unfavorable quarter for the Angevins, and I don't imagine the father will take this slight to his family -- compounded as it is with his own initial dismissal -- any more easily.

Putting Alphonse on the council may ultimately be a futile gesture in the long run, but in the short term it's an unexpectedly shrewd move for Hughes -- aside from dispelling the rumors, it also keeps him from forming factions of his own, if I recall my game mechanics correctly.

And on a tangential note to the rest of the update -- looking at Alias's traits and his relationship score with Geoffrey, I do have to wonder if there's a little more going on with their dynamic than that of a liege lord and his loyal vassal (at least on Alias's part)...

Heh, I can definitely imagine that. Though Foulques was enjoying the influence he was being able to exert through his son, there will be a momentary smirk of smugness. So you sum the situation up well. But, I'd caution the situation is not yet resolved just yet.

You are correct about game mechanics, which were essential to stabilizing large realms (arguably, perhaps, making them too stable). In this case it takes Alphonse from being able to form factions. While Geoffrey has the potential to become the top dog when it comes to levy, at this moment Alphonse's is biggest.

Your thought on Alias is not wrong. I see him holding unrequited feelings for Geoffrey - but given the situation, knowing he won't be able to act upon them.

Antagonizing the Angevins to try to appease an Alphonse who hates him with a passion might not be the smartest move of Hugues. Especially not with somebody as ambitious as Geoffrey. Champagne senses it, but he is losing control.

Alias now perfectly fills his role of loyal sidekick. Although one must ask if "getting rid of" Champagne would be a good idea - the sudden vacuum would definitely impact France. Due to that loyalty, I am seconding Specialist here, even if the count stands no chance for Geoffrey to return these feelings.

All I can say to your first point is that I nodded quite a bit. If I were running the France, I'd do things differently. But I'm not.

He does. I see him as someone who only has a single county, and would not be all that important otherwise. He sees a potential road to greater things with Geoffrey - and that he also may have other feelings as well, help matters along.

I have to agree with @Specialist290 here as well. With Foulques and Geoffrey neutered by the marraige to Bella, putting his other Dukes on the council is a brilliant move. Little genius Leonard is his salvation right now. If War Declaration Committee is enabled, the Angevins and the council members are effectively his completely loyal vassals until and unless he does something stupid. But then, we've not seen the crown laws in quite a while, and that "Decreased Council Power" opinion modifier indicates that something changed recently.

Either way, i'm thinking you probably should have picked a single horse to back in this race. The AI is playing really well in this game, surprisingly.

Yes, the war declaration is enabled. And technically, we have a non-aggression pact. But that could be dissolved. And while Geoffrey is eligible for non-aggression pact, I don't believe he has one.

But Bella/Leonard is reason for Foulques to wait a moment. Well, that and the epidemic. A good opportunity for Foulques would put him in danger. Also of note, Arnulf not being of age also helps, as he has the second largest levy in the realm at the moment, and it's sidelined.

I must also concur with @Specialist290 - in particular because I think Foulques is going to find this very amusing. I hope he gets it out of his system by the time he next sees Geoffrey, otherwise father and son may have a rather fraught meeting.

But then, they could have a very productive meeting - I do wonder here if the King might regret this. Father and son both now have grievances, and whilst both may be pacified in the short term, now they have a greater freedom. And I am quite convinced that they not be prevented from acting in their interest's merely by Bella's marriage. Geoffrey is too calculated, and Foulques is too practical, for that.

He has some time, thankfully - the epidemic still rages and Geoffrey isn't going to Anjou unless he absolutely has to.

That time, may give the king a chance to correct his mistake. You are right to note that while Bella acts as a deterrence, it is not a catch-all, fail-safe. But there will be more on that in the future.

poor Alphonse, he is not responsible for the deeds of others, I hope this do not affect the friendship between Anjou and Normandie in the future

A fair concern! I would say as a potential antagonist to the king in most circumstances though, Alphonse is going to be useful to keep around.

Good grief. Well that was unexpected. I love how you write that meeting with the king and the continuous little peccadilloes of Geoffrey’s (the eye roll is one I find particularly effective and amusing haha)

Others have already commented on the wisdom or not of antagonising the D’Anjou’s. I agree but a question. How is Bella’s son to be king? What did I miss?

Kings can get fickle with their council. Semi-spoiler but Hugues seemed even more fickle than most! I would have attributed it to madness, but despite having the Great Pox, he never developed it. I'm really not sure the cause, but there are some benefits to it.

France is Agnatic-Primo at the moment and Bella is married to King Hugues' only son, Prince Henri. Leonard is now third in line for the throne.

Are they trying to garuntee a civil war as soon as possible? Do they think they can win such an engagement and be rid of some potential enemies or are they just morons? Because this was a damaged realm already. Replacing a good and powerful chancellor who wants to be king and replacing him with a nonentity who can't get diplomacy into double figures is going to do nothing for the popularity of the crown.

I can only assume the crown and the council have decided they are going to treat Geoffrey as if he hates them, wants to kill all of them and is plotting against them. Because they can deal with that now...with some difficulty. But if they leave it until after he becomes duke of Anjou as well, they can't deal with him. Not without a major civil war.

This is both a really shortsighted and far too long sighted plan, which all but garuntees them a powerful enemy that up until that point they might have swayed to their side. There is some brilliance to it but at the same time, some really stupid stuff as well. In other historical examples, doing this sort of thing almost never works in the way the king wants...unless he follows it up with a lot of force and immediately at that. Declare war immediately, arrest him, assassinate him and excommunicate him if possible. But the king can't do that because foulques is still alive. And the new king coming down hard on a rising vassal won't endear him to everyone else. There's ways I can see this working and many I can see that would wreck lots of things. In the end it just seems to be a weird game thing to try and write around.

I'll answer this a bit in reverse by pointing out your final point - writing around a weird game thing - is completely accurate. The game did this. I just had to explain it. And the game is partially influenced by levy size - (not entirely, since Foulques didn't end up on the council right away) and Geoffrey's is inferior to Alphonse. I'd also note that the "council discontent" period where even vassals can join factions ends in July 1103. Thus this does keep Alphonse off the council, and may well justify another decision that is coming up by the king.

But ignoring the game mechanics, it is a questionable decision if only because whatever Hugues' long-term plans are, Geoffrey almost certainly is going to end up commanding the largest levy in the realm. Currently, he has no pretense to do anything to Geoffrey and while he is plotting to revoke a county, it's from Peronelle, not Geoffrey.

However, as I try to justify the game, let me set the scene for King Hugues for a moment. Not to make his actions seem smart, but perhaps more understandable:

The King has come to power through usurpation and one that would not have succeeded without the murder of his brother. I believe he did not take part in that murder, but he is blamed for it all the same. He is a king considered weak by almost all in the realm. His own friend and in theory, most loyal vassal, Toulouse, ignores his wishes and abandons him to go fight his own war. Champagne clearly desires influence. His chancellor, Geoffrey, acts on his own behalf, rather nakedly trying to enhance at least his power, if not his family's. Alphonse remains, of age now, and angry.

And he's a king who has been betrayed before - by his wife. His wife who had an affair, contracted the Great Pox, died of it, and gave it to him, likely shortening his life. And he has spent the last decade as a man of the cloth, giving him a perspective that is likely not shared by anyone on his council.

I see Hugues as a man thrust into a situation he was not fully prepared to handle and learning too late that he was in too deep. He is fairly powerless - much more like his father than his brother - (Philippe was many things but he certainly was not weak for most of his reign) and he's grown suspicious of those around him. A life of being taken for rides by those he trusts has made him quick to suspect others. And it shows with how he handles his council.

As I said, from a gameplay standpoint, King Hugues is an idiot. From a storyline perspective, I think he's foolish. But I can conjure up an explanation for it. Whether you accept it or not, is of course up to you.

To all- the next chapter is mostly written. It is based off a singular event that popped up during the epidemic, but I decided to run with it as an attempt to answer the question "Why would that person make that request?" Hopefully you find it works. I would expect to have that out Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks as always for your comments and feedback! I appreciate the discussion on characters as well. Points to @Specialist290 who clearly hit on something with his analysis of Alias! And I enjoy the @TheButterflyComposer for giving me a prompt to delve into the character of our king. He is a different man from his brother, for sure.

 

[Bullfilter]

Coming to comment on the last chapter a bit late, after the last few days writing updates furiously myself.

I'll just say it was a cracker. I think the madness with Geoffrey and Alphonse is dramatic plot-twist gold and you dealt with the left-fielder very well! Very much stranger and sillier things have happened in power politics for millennia, for sometimes unknowable, arbitrary or hare-brained reasons. So while perhaps illogical from the god-like perspective of the rational game-player, I don't think it's unrealistic at all. A good bit of human factor chaos thrown in by an AI: sheer artistry!

As it did with Foulques when he was thrown off the council, it gives Geoffrey free reign again. Though given you don't control him yet, that could bring up some more equally 'interesting' events ... you must have been sweating a bit by this stage.

Very interested to see where this went next.

 

[AlexiosdeMartín]

Just adding to what has been said before, we players have an objective way of assessing people's skills through the stats, in real life that would not be the case of course and young people tend to think they can always do it better (now I feel like my grandma ) so what happened is not unrealistic whatsoever.