Realpolitik - An interactive AAR concept

Servant said:

As Alex pointed out, Goring is not technically commiting treason:



He swore loyalty to the Kaiser, not the Chancellor. He got out of treason because of a loophole. We shouldn't glorify people using loopholes for being patriotic. We should close them.

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No. There isn't a loophole. He refused an order from the government and went into open revolt. The Chancellor is asked by the Kaiser, as the head of the winning party/coalition, to form a government. Therefore, the Kaiser has vested confidence and authority in the Chancellor.

I don't see what is so hard to understand.

Edit: OOC: Servant, didn't you say you were leaving the AAR?

Edit: OOC: Servant, didn't you say you were leaving the AAR?

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Yes I did. And I should. Gah.

EDIT: Seems I might be prone to addiction if I keep reading the thread, so I'll just block this thread, and wait until the risk goes away. Sorry C_c.

Ok, quick survey. We've all heard the fuss about the current Muller Plan. What are opinions on simply reforming Mittleafrika into the African Federation? Believe it or not this idea is getting heavy discussion by the cabinet and has for some time, we've just been too busy to put it forth, and, our ususal adversion to posting incomplete ideas kicked in.

This African Federation Plan (currently unnamed) would have the same democratic and economic part of the Muller Plan, but would be bound closer to Germany in addition to having provisions for quick addition of new territories.

African Federation? You want Afrika to become democratic. That alone makes it go away from Germany, as they can choose their own leaders. And what if in the middle of a war, when the resources they give us are needed the most, they elect a president that signs peace with our enemy?

So I'd rather see Afrika divided into many small democratic nations than one big one. The way I see it, Mittelafrika should stay as it is. A puppet of Germany that we can always count on.

We can write a treaty into their consitution requring them to have a perminate Mututal Defence Pact with Germany that cannot be broken.

We could use something like the Agreement of Friendship, Cooperation, and Mutual Assistance?

The Müller Plan propose decolonization in the future, when there are African ready for the responsibility of government. There are none now, and won't be for one generation until we have educated a political class.

Asalto said:

Democratic Mittelafrika? This is the best way for them to join quasi-monarchists of Entente! Only true democracy is German authoritarian democracy, where wise monarch rules with help of elected representatives. Nations of Entente have changed their monarchs into poor puppets of parliament. Do you wish the same for our Kaiser?

Mittelafrika must stay and all threats for African peace should be eliminated. South Africa must be anexed into Mittelafrika before they join Entente! Remember, Entente is same threat for Germany as Syndicalists. Don't you know what would British and French exiles do with Germany if they gain their old power? There would be no more Germany! Both Syndicalists and quasi-monarchists of Entente can not be trusted!

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The Entente have little to no hope of getting their old land back without Germany's assistance.

Actually, South Africa will not join the Entente, check TRPs next update for news on that. The Muller plan is opposed most by the Entent BTW.

Only reactionary members of the Reichstag and the Entente seem to mind, feel the irony?

The Entente is only angry since they won't get back the territory we gloriously conquered during the Weltkrieg. Anyway the whole Imperialistic Mission was about civilizing Africa until they were ready to take care of themselves. That hasn't changed. Through the construction of a modern society and the spread of Christianity we will bring light to the darkness. The Müller plan will probably allow the Africans to create their own countries in a generation or two.

I'd say go for some kind of compromise. This message I posted on our PCP Party platform and I will post it here:

I'd go for keeping it as one entity, but proposing an alliance with South Africa in exchange of Namibia (its worth nothing) is quite good...

MittelAfrika should get more independent, but gradually. Decolonization will be in the fututre being pressed on as these people get more intelligence with universities etc. Then they want to have home rule etc. Think of it as a German Commonwealth, with gradual independence, say for instance more democracy and own leaders mixed with ours, then gradually towards independence (no puppet) but a valuable ally, who is strong in industry, stable in government and later on a good ally in case of war, because it is economical and military aligned with Germany. This or revolt in some way: Look at the former British Colony of India and the chaos it is now....

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So the alternative plan is:

1. South Africa joins the German Alliance, in exchange of a sandbox (what is it worth anyway?). Sorry to say but it is the truth, the same goes of Libya and Somalia...
2.Keep MittelAfrika as 1 state. I'd say make it more democratic, by giving it an assembly (parliament) of which 50% is native and 50% is German citizen/colonist/settler. The head of state is a governor who acts like some kind of president as in the USA or something.
3. MittelAfrika will be democratic, in constitution bound to Germany, but with gradual independence, good relations continue. This will lead to closer economic cooperation (e.g. very good trades on rares etc. for a very cheap price, the cheapest available) and military cooperation (they deliver us the manpower in the form of divisions...)
4. Decolonization will happen anyway, these people get smarter through university etc. What will happen is either, make these people your best friends, or your worst enemies (revolts and stuff)

This my friends, is what I propose. To make it clear, this is not an attack on you all personal, or on the person of Bismarck. This is just a combination between the two-three factions. In this proposal everyone should be happy with, because at the end MittelAfrika will prove itself valuable...

It is not against Bismarck, why not? well, Bismarck himself was never really confronted with a situation like this. And well, he would eventually have proposed the same kind of thing...

I have spoken, but I would like to have some kind of vote on this plan if possible, I'd say if TRP wants this to be voted on to open a social group against or in favor of the plan to vote overthere. I see this plan as one of the last attempts at reuniting the Imperial Coalition for this might just split the parties and the coalition, which we frankly do not want to happen.

About Herr Goering, he still committed too much crimes but for humanity's sake, lets either put him in prison for his whole life or give him a rifle and let hom start shooting some Syndies...see how many he can kill before being killed himself...:rofl:

I greet you all my dear German citizens, ministers...

Tim

C_c said:

The Entente have little to no hope of getting their old land back without Germany's assistance.

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This is true, altough they don't need German assistance to get back their old lands. It is enough if USA joins them.

FlyingDutchie, we can't trust South Africa. If you are so ''anticolonial'', keep in mind that South Africa is not land of native Africans. Why shall we give lands of Mittelafrika to other tyrants? If you like Sotuh Africa so much, it is best way to anex them into Mittelafrika. No deals with puppets of Entente!

How would the Reichtag look like, I mean seats if the Delex propostion happens?
How many % must it be for 1 seat?
It's unfair if our party(NCRP) get 13% and somebody 4% but both get's 1 seat.
What will happen with this problem in Realpolitik?

Hax said:

How would the Reichtag look like, I mean seats if the Delex propostion happens?
How many % must it be for 1 seat?
It's unfair if our party(NCRP) get 13% and somebody 4% but both get's 1 seat.
What will happen with this problem in Realpolitik?

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Making 100 seats would make sense and then each Party leader (with the support of his party) would get to cast the votes of all the seats.

BTW Can someone give me a link to the election results

Asalto said:

This is true, altough they don't need German assistance to get back their old lands. It is enough if USA joins them.

FlyingDutchie, we can't trust South Africa. If you are so ''anticolonial'', keep in mind that South Africa is not land of native Africans. Why shall we give lands of Mittelafrika to other tyrants? If you like Sotuh Africa so much, it is best way to anex them into Mittelafrika. No deals with puppets of Entente!

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We are trying to secure U.S. to our alliance, they are atm more friendlier towards us than others.

And South Africa is certainly not a puppet of Entente and with few right decisions they may become strong ally to Germany in Africa.

Tommy4ever said:

Making 100 seats would make sense and then each Party leader (with the support of his party) would get to cast the votes of all the seats.

BTW Can someone give me a link to the election results

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Except that wouldn't be any different than what we have now. What they are trying to simulate is dissent WITHIN the parties against the leadership of the parties.