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Rome AARisen - a Byzantine AAR

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The romans have had a long history of vassal kings, dating back all the way to the republic, letting Sulieman keep his title isn't actually unusual in any way, and frankly I think Gabriel is being very clever here. Sulieman has come to the romans hat in hand, by treating him like a valued ally and subject, Gabriel is making sure that Sulieman owes him a debt of gratitude, after all Sulieman might be in a bad situation right now, but that could change, and if Gabriel had humiliated him he propperly wouldn't forget that in a hurry. As it is Gabriel might just have made himself a potentially powerful ally who owes him big time, thats pretty smart as far as Im concerned, especially since we can be fairly certain Sulieman dosn't have any allegiances to any other roman faction.
 
The Turk submitting to Roman Authority, Cordoba proving itself to be the New New Rome in every way (with a little Arabic pizazz for good measure), Gabriel proving to be a pragmatist once more, and the pesky Latins ruling North Africa and Sicily from Carthage...mmm mmm! Tastes like Rome AARisen! BT you out do yourself everytime you post. The plot just continues to divide itself to provide a multi-faceted endeavor of a story. Although I am curious how the Kingdom of Africa scenario played out in game. Did the North Coast revolt or did you release the Kingdom on a whim. And now that the Turkish Empire...er...the Seljuk Kingdom of the Turks has submitted to Constantinople, that means that your realm technically extends outside the demensions of the In-Game map? Great job!

Cheers,
~Hawk
 
General_BT said:
Plushie - I'm glad my numbers came out close, overall! It'd make sense the Empire and those regions would be approaching that total... the 13th century is about when Europe was peaking after the Dark Age population plunge...
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Yep. In the southern Balkans and Anatolia, the 13th century is when the demographic recovery that had been on-going since the 800's slowed and reversed. Most of this was related to the collapse of security, though, so I doubt it'll follow that trend in this timeline. The major, global reverse happened a century later, during the Black Death. I think the Black Death has more chances of happening ITTL.

Siind said:
Just out of curiosity; is that figure before or after the plague of Justinian?
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Believe it or not, both. The pre-plague, pre-expansion population of the Empire is usually estimated to be roughly the same as the post-plague, post-expansion of the Empire. Justinian's capture of North Africa, Italy, and southern Spain roughly counter-balanced his losses due to disease.

RGB said:
Yeah...I did have Philadelphia/Amman on my Jerusalem maps, but I didn't notice it on BT's.

Maybe the Transjordan isn't doing so well in this TL.
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Heh, Philadelphia is one of those city names that has been used over and over again, so it's hard to know which one is being spoken about. When I said, 'No Philadelphia!', I meant the one in Eastern Asia Minor, along the Hermos River Valley, that's called Alaşehir today. It was the original, IIRC.
 
I fear the Mongol attack with be a drawn out affair. The Romans need to push them into the Caspian Sea!

I really want to know what that "something dark" was between young Thomas and Frederica.
 
It took me two hours to get through the first 6 pages and now I'm hooked. What madness have you got me into General_BT? :eek:
 
Siind said:
The romans have had a long history of vassal kings, dating back all the way to the republic, letting Sulieman keep his title isn't actually unusual in any way, and frankly I think Gabriel is being very clever here. Sulieman has come to the romans hat in hand, by treating him like a valued ally and subject, Gabriel is making sure that Sulieman owes him a debt of gratitude, after all Sulieman might be in a bad situation right now, but that could change, and if Gabriel had humiliated him he propperly wouldn't forget that in a hurry. As it is Gabriel might just have made himself a potentially powerful ally who owes him big time, thats pretty smart as far as Im concerned, especially since we can be fairly certain Sulieman dosn't have any allegiances to any other roman faction.
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Exactly this, supplicant Kings have long been a source of prestige and other more tangible benefits for the Roman statesmen, this is a smart move, and should continue to be one, providing the lid is kept on Sulieman and his successors.
 
Tommy4ever said:
It took me two hours to get through the first 6 pages and now I'm hooked. What madness have you got me into General_BT? :eek:
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Hehe :D
I felt the same way when I first found TheYogi's Fu Manchu AARs. He was already at ~100 pages worth of story when I first found it, and it took me about a week to read it all.

General_BT is of the same caliber (although he has less horror and more different characters)... let us know how long it takes you to get through! ;)
 
Good update as usual BT.

I must say, it was quite odd to see Sulieman II being the one to actually kneel. I must say, I felt a bit sad in a way - out goes the old 'nemesis', so to speak.

Also give us some more Thomas updates! I really wanna find out what the hell happened between him and Frederica. Then again, keeping with tradition, wouldn't surprise me if the 'III' was just as mad as the I and II.
 
Ksim3000 said:
Good update as usual BT.

I must say, it was quite odd to see Sulieman II being the one to actually kneel. I must say, I felt a bit sad in a way - out goes the old 'nemesis', so to speak.
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Out with the old, in with the new... :p

Ksim3000 said:
Also give us some more Thomas updates! I really wanna find out what the hell happened between him and Frederica. Then again, keeping with tradition, wouldn't surprise me if the 'III' was just as mad as the I and II.
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That's why I was so excited for the Frederica cameo at this point in the story. The combination of one of BT's Thomasine nutjobs with Frederica's own... idiosyncracies... it was just too awesome to pass up!
 
This is all well and good, but I am still waiting for all the answers from Dr. Al Jedawi.
Any Idea when they will be ready?
 
Out with the old, in with the new...
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Ah, but if only in reality....

Still, at least the Byzantines allowed the Turks to peacefully kneel rather than in OTL with the battle of Constantinople....

Must say, Gabriel is turning into a rather interesting character. He's not quite a Manuel or Basil....he's something "else" entirely. Arrogant, self-confident, odd sexual behaviours, great warrior, plus his own little voice. Makes for a good nut job himself....

That's why I was so excited for the Frederica cameo at this point in the story. The combination of one of BT's Thomasine nutjobs with Frederica's own... idiosyncracies... it was just too awesome to pass up!
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I like your Frederica character, AP. She's certainly entertaining though being *scared* of Thomas III just shows that something definitely ain't right in Constantinople!

I really am looking forward to finding out about that eventually. And yes, I feel all the Thomas's are to be "cursed" as nut jobs.
 
Ksim3000 said:
I like your Frederica character, AP. She's certainly entertaining though being *scared* of Thomas III just shows that something definitely ain't right in Constantinople!
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Yes, you definitely have a point. Freddie doesn't scare easily (especially as evidenced by her showdown with the bandits in this AAR), so whatever Thomas has done to upset her... well, you get the point.
 
Nikolai - Gabriel's about as generous as historical Byzantine Emperors were to Muslim vassals, notably Edessa. Sulieman serves a strategic purpose--once that purpose is done, it remains to be seen if the generous terms Gabriel laid out will in fact remain.

Kirsch27 - A complicated plot! While it's doubtful Sulieman is personally serving as a Mongol spy, that doesn't mean he's not a Mongol patsy...

Enewald - Settling the Turks in North Africa? That would require making the Turks move by the sword, something the Romans are a little too preoccupied to do at the moment...

Subcommandante - Yes there was. She wasn't a Mongol, however. :)

Vesimir - Well, technically he's being referred to as Sultan, a title that would be outside the Byzantine lists of ranks. Naturally, of course, Gabriel is probably going to bestow on his new vassal suitable proper Roman titles as well--both as baubles, and a way to take this non-Roman potentate and insert him into the Roman hierarchy. The most likely title would probably be Prince of the Turks, or some unique position like Autarch ton Tourkiamon...

RGB - Quite a bit yes, though Gabby should have a couple months to spare, assuming things go as planned. As for Nikephoros...

AlexanderPrimus - Basil constantly warned not to strike down the Turks, and while the Romans have been mercilessly pummeling them, the Turks are still alive. Will it be enough, though?

Siind - That's exactly the game Gabby is playing--treat Sulieman well, gain a valuable force and ally that none of his rivals have access to. The cost is little--the Romans were, after all, going to be fighting the Mongols anyway...

Hawkeye1489 - The Kingdom came about the same way the Exarchates did--out of boredom and being released as a kingdom. However, that was entirely too peaceable and boring for the AAR, so I changed things up a bit. ;)

Plushie - The big decline I was referring to was the Black Death. Anatolia et al are heavily populated, yes, but as we'll see eventually, thats not always an advantage...

asd21593 - Hopeful? We shall soon have to see about that! *cue ominous music*

armoristan - First--I'm jealous! Second--The Turks kneeling before the Byzantines is only the first of two big ironies I'm going to toss into the story relatively soon...

Servius Magnus - Gabby is hoping to catch the Mongols with their pants down. Unfortunately for the Romans, that is a notoriously hard thing to do--if the Mongols were better at anything than winning battles, it was getting accurate information on their opponents before the war began...

Issac Wolfe - I promise next update I'll reveal more about what happened between Freddie and Tommy! :)

Tommy4ever - Hahaha! You have been sucked in! :) Glad to hear you're enjoying it. Count yourself lucky... you can read at your own pace and not have to wait for updates like all the unfortunate souls that have caught up...

English Patriot - The key part of the phrase is "providing a lid is kept on Sulieman and his successors." The Mongols currently provide such a lid--but what happens when the Mongols are gone?

Leviathan07 - Now I'm blushing. I'm not sure I deserve to be ranked up with TheYogi!

Ksim3000 - The old nemesis hasn't gone away... he's now an at least temporary ally... and nemesis' who backstab their newfound partners are often the darkest and most devious...

Clydwich - Calipah has been busily compiling the good Doctor's responses. I think we should all look forward to something from him shortly! :)


The next update has not yet been started. :( Oblivion and work have jointly conspired to rob me of writing time (Work is a good thing, Oblivion you can blame my boyfriend for getting me an Xbox260 :D) However, I plan on getting a framework done on it later today, and possibly a posted update as soon as Thursday. We'll have to see!
 
Another great update, just love Nikephoros schemes :D. Is the Latin kingdom a vassal of the western empire or independent? Can see Nikephoros taking Sicily and Carthage in an 'efford' to rid the east of De Bracy only to keep it all himself...
 
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