EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

[Blobhemian]

Oh and if the devs work as much as they could like in the Irish update, maybe the could've added more than 1 province to Portugal.

One of the recent patches already updated southern half of Portugal.

 

[withche.07]

I do hope there will have better new piracy mechanic. Piracy in EU4 is a joke, although EU4 timeline is a golden age of pirates in both new world and old world (e.g. wako japan pirate, indian pirate, Madagascar, Persia Gulf). I always felt my trade route so safe as Great Britain and Spain. The only way to weak these trade powers income is piracy.
I only see OPM pirates Salé and Tétouan exist to be fed to i.e. Granada.

As @neondt told there will be events making Sale and Tetouan appear more likely. I feel like these events might be tied directly to Castille and Granada cause forced expel of Moriscos to Maghreb. So Maghreb players will be comfortable to use them against Iberian forces.
Or as alternate history, strong Granada can release and vassalize them to disrupt Christian trade furthermore.

I think that adding a large (as in, much more than I've added here for Iberia) number of new provinces in Europe would require a look at overall development balance. Particularly raising the global total amount of development. I won't say that will never happen but it isn't planned right now. And that means there's a limit on how many provinces we can add before each province becomes too weak individually.

By the way I hope you guys return balkans and anatolia as only handful of tags and provinces are missed in region. It was nicely done in cradle of civilization and free patches anyways so we can wait.

 

[jobarin94]

None taken! You were voicing concerns, and understandable ones!

I love happy endings

 

[Zaragoza]

There is a difference between the kingdom and the crown of Aragon. The crown was the name of the whole "confederation" formed by the kingdoms of Aragon and Valencia, the principality of Catalonia and the rest of territories (without major individual representative institutions like courts) Historically and legally speaking, the Balearic Islands were surrogate to Catalonia. The king never summoned courts for the islands and their estates and representatives were attended during the courts of Catalonia or the general courts of the crown.

Between 1276-1349 a cadet branch of the house of Barcelona reigned the "vassal" kingdom of Mallorca, who also controlled the county of Roussillon and the city of Montpellier. The "disloyal" attitude of the cadet branch "forced" the reincorporation of those territories under the senior branch control. Paradox could recreate that kingdom putting cores on those territories xD

Actually, a very interesting issue was the conflict between aragonese and catalan courts about the priorities in the Reconquista. Catalans had a prior focus in the Balearics (with a expedion before the union during Ramón Berenguer III), whilst the Aragonese had a continuity from their southern "marches" (or comunidades de aldeas) and the northern of todays Valencia region (Jérica, etc).

The catalan court pressured the king Jaime I for the Majorca conquest (Menorca was conquested later) to stop the piracy in ther routes to Italy. Soon after the expedition, the king found that Blasco de Alagón, an aragonese nobleman, had taken Morella and broken the muslim defensive line for Valencia and launched the conquest for Valencia the aragonese wanted. Neither campaign was purely from either territory (there were aragonese in the expedition to Majorca and catalans in Valencia) but the conflict behind it was probably one of the reasons to create two new kingdoms and avoid atributing the land to either party after their disagreements.

The other driver was the typical approach of splitting the crown land for several sons. The death of several meant finally only Majorca got their own (temporal) cadet branch.

 

[JPGM22]

Aveiro Province in Portugal has a awful shape! Rather you might add Minho splitting Porto in 2. And Ribatejo splitting Lisboa. You missed a good opportunity to improve every iberian nation.

 

[VVyrd]

Hopefully this won't be another Black Legend Fest, like much of base game Spain is.

This, so much this. Please, Paradox, don't let us down. Give it the love it needs and deserves, just as UK had it for Rule Britannia.


Also, arguably Portugal needs a few more provinces in Iberia. They were pretty powerful early on. As it is in 1.27 however, Portugal can't even beat Morocco without some very, very smart play and good luck, not to speak about keeping a decent Brazil loyal without constant headache and hassle.

 

[HottestRod]

Aveiro Province in Portugal has a awful shape! Rather you might add Minho splitting Porto in 2. And Ribatejo splitting Lisboa. You missed a good opportunity to improve every iberian nation.

• Province density for Portugal hasn't change much as it was on par with the rest of Spain. By changing it we would upset the game balance.

Regarding other Iberian nations, which suggestions would you give us to improve map changes?

 

[Franciscus123]

One of the recent patches already updated southern half of Portugal.

It certainly mattered at the time to sort of balance out Portugal, but following the intense map changes in other parts of the world (most notably India - from where the flow of trade to Europe was controlled by Portugal for many years) I think it warrants a bigger overall to better square up Portugal against regional powers there. Also at home, the change in CoT mechanics, albeit needed, severely hampered Portugal.

 

[Monphat]

Province density for Portugal hasn't change much as it was on par with the rest of Spain. By changing it we would upset the game balance.

I think that adding a large (as in, much more than I've added here for Iberia) number of new provinces in Europe would require a look at overall development balance. Particularly raising the global total amount of development. I won't say that will never happen but it isn't planned right now. And that means there's a limit on how many provinces we can add before each province becomes too weak individually.

Have to disagree with this reasoning in case of Portugal specifically. The nation is already imbalanced since it is so pathetically weak that it regularly gets conquered by Morocco. It is also highly ahistorical because Portugal was one of the few nations that punched way above its weight, like Prussia and Netherlands. Yet the latter two get huge development and tiny provinces to buff them up, while Portugal does not.

When you add more provinces to both Spain and Morocco, and give Portugal just one province in the name of proportionality, you don’t really restore balance to the nation. In fact it is likely going to do worse because while the ratio stays the same, the cumulative implicit effects for different nations would be different.

In case you are drawing the line and won’t ever consider buffing Portugal via provinces or development, I hope you can offer it something else that would allow the nation to give serious trouble to the Ottoman Empire and Mamluks simultaneously.

 

[Mingmung]

Regarding other Iberian nations, which suggestions would you give us to improve map changes?

The capital of Algarve should definetely be Lagos instead of Faro, as Faro is still the capital in 1.27, while the location depicts the more important Lagos. Not sure if this was already checked.

Tarragona is placed in the location of Tortosa.

The capital of Beira shouldn't be Viseu; wrong location on the map.

I'd also suggest renaming Extremadura and Castilla la Vieja to their respective capitals; those historical regions are larger than just those two provinces. Extremadura was also a term used after Salamanca split from those southern provinces, creating the Extremadura.

Avila should be placed closer to Madrid:

If there's time, you guys should try to look at Google Maps if all the cities are placed correctly.

 

[R Rex]

Sorry but who are you to say this job is poor or whatever?
Such a lack of respect and consideration. It's very embarrasing and I sincerely hope you are not Spanish because that would make me blush.

You lost your change of rectification with the response you quoted. If you think you can make a better game then go on and do it then sell it to us and see how many people buy it. Otherwise give your ideas without being disrespectful like that!

Firts, the you can do it argument is the lamest justification for a bad job ever, it's like: you see a poorly made bridge and you can't cross safely and you don't ask to fix that right? You build it yourself. And second: i see no disrespect he does no attack the devs personally or something like that: HE CRITISIZES THEIR WORK and if they really care about that work they sure will want to hear where they fail to fix it and don' t make the mistake again. But hey your do it yourself filosofy is much better.

 

[Celdur]

I think that adding a large (as in, much more than I've added here for Iberia) number of new provinces in Europe would require a look at overall development balance. Particularly raising the global total amount of development. I won't say that will never happen but it isn't planned right now. And that means there's a limit on how many provinces we can add before each province becomes too weak individually.

If this is a real concern, then both Ireland and Scotland should be 1 province, they literally did nothing during the whole timeframe of the game nor did they contribute to any global change or effect the world in any way, there is nothing England couldn't have done that they could because they added them to their domains. Portugal did, Castille did, several times, and in many different ways, there are 640 million people in Latin America, 200 million of whom speak Portuguese because of their actions and impact on the world, not to mention they discovered a new route to the East, and kickstarted the whole discovery and colonization thing, which gave Europe the edge that it enjoys to this day. And you are going to argue that you prioritize provinces in Ireland over them? give me a break. It doesn't make any kind of logical sense. Spain plunged China into inflation because of all the silver mined in Perú, Bolivia and Mexico, 80% of world production between 1500 and 1800 (even today Mexico and Perú are world leading producers of Silver, and they often trade top places) that would then be traded for goods by the British causing a worldwide chain of effects that affected everyone. And you are going to prioritice Scotland over Iberia?, that is not good decision making. If there is a limited number of provinces or development, then clearly the more important nations of the period should be prioritized.

There are excellent suggestions by many other forumers to improve the region, i think its both logical and good business sense to listen to them for any improvements that can be made before the release of the immersion pack.


Edit: I should mention i'm a proponent of more detail and more provinces, i want them all, all the provinces, giv. Development balance is really not that important, you can conquer what you need, and improve the provinces you already have, a decent core base resembling history (which really should only need to be balanced vis a vis the big powers, small nations are small and will still be crushed even if tripling in dev and provinces, most of the time, but are more resilient in alliances and coalitions, which is good for the time period) is needed ofc.

 

[Naranjito]

I think that adding a large (as in, much more than I've added here for Iberia) number of new provinces in Europe would require a look at overall development balance. Particularly raising the global total amount of development. I won't say that will never happen but it isn't planned right now. And that means there's a limit on how many provinces we can add before each province becomes too weak individually.

But to Iberia as a whole you have given a raise.

571 development in 63 provinces. Previously there were 47 provinces and about 508 of development.

And honestly, I hope they go to Castilla, so that it adjusts to reality.

I understand you, it is impossible to satisfy everyone, I did a thread and received some criticism, some did not see well 4 Galician provinces or put Palencia. I understand that it is complicated.
I criticize you the most about Castilla, which I think was undervalued in relation to Portugal and Aragon and even France.
But I think you're going to solve it.

On the other hand there is a reality:

Castilla, 400,000 km - 35 provinces
Portugal: 92,000 km2 - 11 provinces
Aragon: 107,000 km2 - 16 provinces
France: 640,000 km2 - 60 provinces more or less

Portugal can have 1 more, but not 5 more. It is not to insult

Castilla could have 2 or 3 more. It is not to insult.

Aragon should have some less, hahaha. Neither is it to insult.

Open a thread of obstacles and problems for Spain and Portugal, to see what we answer. LOL

 

[Calanon]

Why is La Rioja a province? It wasn't a province in Spain until 1812.

 

[carlesm13]

For me, only three points:

- Lleida is part of Catalonia, not Aragon. You should rename this province (or add it to Catalonia).
- Please, if you are considering a new Majorca tag, please give them cores in Roussillon and Montpellier.
- If the tags names are in Engilsh, and the province names in the local languages (catalan in this ocasion), the correct way to represent the Balearic Islands is: TAG: Majorca. PROVINCES: Eivissa (Ibiza), Palma or Mallorca (Majorca) and Menorca (Minorca)

If we go deeper, we should change the "conception" of Aragon: Valencia, Catalonia and Naples should be under PU of Aragon, Mallorca a vassal of Catalonia and Sardinia and Sicily a vassal of Aragon, similar to what happens to Burgundy.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Valencia definitely has never existed as a tag in EU4. But the really strange thing is that it already had a flag buried in the gfx files for some reason. A mystery indeed.

I guess that was where I remembered them from then. Pretty sure Asturias is in, though, as I'm pretty sure I've seen it as a revolter. Though perhaps it was later removed again.

 

[HottestRod]

Have to disagree with this reasoning in case of Portugal specifically. The nation is already imbalanced since it is so pathetically weak that it regularly gets conquered by Morocco. It is also highly ahistorical because Portugal was one of the few nations that punched way above its weight, like Prussia and Netherlands. Yet the latter two get huge development and tiny provinces to buff them up, while Portugal does not.

When you add more provinces to both Spain and Morocco, and give Portugal just one province in the name of proportionality, you don’t really restore balance to the nation. In fact it is likely going to do worse because while the ratio stays the same, the cumulative implicit effects for different nations would be different.

In case you are drawing the line and won’t ever consider buffing Portugal via provinces or development, I hope you can offer it something else that would allow the nation to give serious trouble to the Ottoman Empire and Mamluks simultaneously.

I understand your point, but Portugal is not that imbalanced. Historically speaking Castille and Portugal were good allies, hence you have a powerful friend to face Morocco. Portugal is quite safe under the Castilian umbrella thus bringing balance to a Portuguese run... unless you want to go up against Castille yourself but here again you can find a good ally in Aragon. You know who is the real loser of tags? Navarra. Here is a real challenge! But I'm sure our Basque fans will rise to it! And yes, we have more in store for Portugal but that is still a secret!

 

[Mingmung]

I completely understand your point, and here you are giving us good feedback. Yet, you have to remember that the development diaries are here not only to inform you about the direction we are taking, they are also a good way to gather feedback. Development diaries are usually work in progress and not the final product, hence they can be subject to change (depending on the suggestions made by the community and if they align with our vision - see my previous post). Development diaries are a good way to correct mistakes that might have gone under the radar. Now, regarding the points you have brought up:

• Lleida will have a rework - and Zaragoza might be more central.
• The Majorca tag is under consideration.
• The Cordoba tag as been deemed unnecessary as Granada already covers the area (we are currently doing great work on the latter, stay tuned for more information). But again, maybe you might have a good suggestion as to why we should include this tag? If so I will bring it up in my report to the dev team.
• Province density for Portugal hasn't change much as it was on par with the rest of Spain. By changing it we would upset the game balance.

Hope these points will address your concerns.

The problem with feedback is that the latest patch showed that there was no time for some good implementation of feedback (the Polish patch). We are all passionate fans who really love a 'fitting' and geographically correct map, so we want (and kind of expect?) the best from you guys who also brought us CoC and Dharma (in terms of province-quality).

 

[Franciscus123]

If this is a real concern, then both Ireland and Scotland should be 1 province, they literally did nothing during the whole timeframe of the game nor did they contribute to any global change or effect the world in any way, there is nothing England couldn't have done that they could because they added them to their domains. Portugal did, Castille did, several times, and in many different ways, there are 640 million people in Latin Americal, 200 million of whom speak Portuguese because of their actions and impact on the world, not to mention they discovered a new route to the East, and kickstarted the whole discovery and colonization thing, which gave Europe the edge that it enjoys to this day. And you are going to argue that you prioritize provinces in Ireland over them? give me a break. It doesn't make any kind of logical sense. Spain plunged China into inflation because of all the silver mined in Perú, Bolivia and Mexico, 80% of world production between 1500 and 1800 (even today Mexico and Perú are world leading producers of Silver, and they often trade top places) that would then be traded for goods by the British causing a worldwide chain of effects that affected everyone. And you are going to prioritice Scotland over Iberia?, that is not good decision making. If there is a limited number of provinces or development, then clearly the more important nations of the period should be prioritized.

There are excellent suggestions by many other forumers to improve the region, i think its both logical and good business sense to listen to them for any improvements that can be made before the release of the immersion pack.

I agree. Portugal heavily punched above its weight, especially naval wise.

As a suggestion, maybe add the Setubal province south of the Tagus and of Lisbon as a coastal province, and divide Algarve into 2 - Sagres (low dev - Infant Henrique, the guy who kickstarted Portugal's age of discovery, established the scientific School of Sagres and used to go there to watch ships leave on their voyages) and Lagos/Algarve.

 

[HottestRod]

The capital of Algarve should definetely be Lagos instead of Faro, as Faro is still the capital in 1.27, while the location depicts the more important Lagos. Not sure if this was already checked.

Tarragona is placed in the location of Tortosa.

The capital of Beira shouldn't be Viseu; wrong location on the map.

I'd also suggest renaming Extremadura and Castilla la Vieja to their respective capitals; those historical regions are larger than just those two provinces. Extremadura was also a term used after Salamanca split from those southern provinces, creating the Extremadura.

Avila should be placed closer to Madrid:


If there's time, you guys should try to look at Google Maps if all the cities are placed correctly.

That is a HUGE PICTURE! I've drafted a few notes to pass on to the devs! Cheers Mingmung!