EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

[neondt]

I'm making a few changes. Will also be revising city placement later. Oddly enough most of the cities people have noted are in the wrong place are old cities that I didn't even touch.

re: Majorca tag - Convince me and I'll do it. Make a case from both a gameplay and historical perspective

 

[Mingmung]

That is a HUGE PICTURE! I've drafted a few notes to pass on to the devs! Cheers Mingmung!

My apalogies, I'm doing this on a mobile phone...

I would add that the real-life Extremadura also consisted of Badajoz; so, naming a province after Extremadura is like naming Den Haag to Holland and keeping Amsterdam as Amsterdam, while both cities were inside of the province of historical Holland.

Also, a renaming for Pirineo, as it just means the Pyrenees. And thank you for your listening ear! Really appreciated!

 

[Franciscus123]

I understand your point, but Portugal is not that imbalanced. Historically speaking Castille and Portugal were good allies, hence you have a powerful friend to face Morocco. Portugal is quite safe under the Castilian umbrella thus bringing balance to a Portuguese run... unless you want to go up against Castille yourself but here again you can find a good ally in Aragon. You know who is the real loser of tags? Navarra. Here is a real challenge! But I'm sure our Basque fans will rise to it! And yes, we have more in store for Portugal but that is still a secret!

In singeplayer this would be true 80% of times. In multiplayer, around 10%, and I think I'm being generous - most other Castille player will want to eat Portugal pronto, either taking it themselves or feeding it to Aragon.

Edit: You don't exactly need to give that much of a dev buff to Portugal, but more provinces would allow for more building slots and at least for more sailors/manpower, which makes it more viable in terms of maintaining a navy and an army without having to fully colonise Africa, which it did not.

 

[Mingmung]

View attachment 409577

I'm making a few changes. Will also be revising city placement later. Oddly enough most of the cities people have noted are in the wrong place are old cities that I didn't even touch.

re: Majorca tag - Convince me and I'll do it. Make a case from both a gameplay and historical perspective

Nice work man! Reminds me how much I appreciate the Paradox dev team.

If you can do this for Poland, too, then I will be eternally grateful!!!

The problem you've managed to uncover is also the problem we see with older province-reworks. A rework needs some current-provinces checking it seems.

 

[navaluiki]

View attachment 409577

I'm making a few changes. Will also be revising city placement later. Oddly enough most of the cities people have noted are in the wrong place are old cities that I didn't even touch.

re: Majorca tag - Convince me and I'll do it. Make a case from both a gameplay and historical perspective

Thank you. That is much better now. Would still be possible to see Plasencia and Segovia as new provinces? They were quite important at the time

 

[neondt]

Nice work man! Reminds me how much I appreciate the Paradox dev team.

If you can do this for Poland, too, then I will be eternally grateful!!!

The problem you've managed to uncover is also the problem we see with older province-reworks. A rework needs some current-provinces checking it seems.

I suspect that there's a huge number of cities in the game that could be placed better. Make some detailed suggestions and I'll see what I can do.

 

[carlesm13]

I'm making a few changes. Will also be revising city placement later. Oddly enough most of the cities people have noted are in the wrong place are old cities that I didn't even touch.

re: Majorca tag - Convince me and I'll do it. Make a case from both a gameplay and historical perspective

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Majorca

It was created by Jaume I after it was conquered to the Almohads, like a "client state" of Catalonia (catalan culture; not Aragon as it says in the wikipedia; it was a vassal of the crown of Aragon but not a vassal of Aragon). It should have cores in Roussillon and Montpellier:

 

[Mingmung]

Urgell should be renamed to Lleida, Tàrrega is the capital of modern Urgell. The old province of Urgell was disbanded early 15th century and Lleida was its most important city. Also needs some checking if the city is still placed correctly, like the rest.

Spoiler: image

@neondt

 

[Balaguer]

That's what we Spaniards have been begging, stop being so critical!
Developers will be correcting some minor geographic adjustments but not 100% if that makes the game experience worse.

Looks good! Thank you to Devs for this update

 

[Mingmung]

I suspect that there's a huge number of cities in the game that could be placed better. Make some detailed suggestions and I'll see what I can do.

Thank you! I already started with the Denmark patch a while ago, and I'm slowly covering the Hungary patch as well as the England patch. The one for Poland is in my signature and also covers the strangeness of Romania.

If you're speaking for Iberia, then I will do my best as soon as possible. I see you guys are hard at work, so that's very relieving.

 

[Zaragoza]

Regarding other Iberian nations, which suggestions would you give us to improve map changes?

In the last DLC of CK2 thay added internal mountain ranges (Sistema Ibérico) between Castille and Aragón, with more provinces in the border. That will be interesting to make the frontier more tactical. The split of Zaragoza/Calatyud goes well in that sense and the suggestion of a Guadalajara province between Cuenca and Soria will complete that by creating chokepoints.

Navarra could use a second province in southern France to represent their links with Ultrapuertos (probably splitting it from Bearn). I wouldn't add navarran cores in Vizcaya or Rioja as some have suggested, since there was settlements in the XIV century and it was solved before eu4 timeline. It would create too often ahistorical outcomes (Castille being forced to give back cores that actually were settled in its favour by third parties).

In Castille, provinces are a bit big. Madrid may be reduced to only the capital, adding Segovia in its northern part. A small mountain range (sistema central) may be interesting for tactical depth, as it happened in real life (see Somosierra battle during the napoleonic wars). A Spanish player should be able to use some strategic depth to keep an invader before they reach the capital. Castilla La Vieja shoud be Valladolid (the province name is from a EU4 version with less provinces without Palencia or Soria).

Further south, there is a mountain range (Sierra Nevada) in most of 1444 frontier between Castille and Granada (the frontier was not random ). It coud serve as a southern Pyrinees to avoid a conquest from north Africa. It is not real for an invader to be able to go to Madrid so easy as in the game.

Also, as they said, Cartagena should be Murcia and Murcia should be added between Cartagena and Cuenca. They have already put a map showing the complex situation in the s XIV, but later the area had semiautunomus lords (Villena, etc) and strategic significance: Cartagena was one the main port of Castille in the mediterranean before the Iberian Wedding and kept being an important shipyard up to today.

Most leonese and extremaduran provinces are a bit big, but there were not many changes in the period. I would suggest adding Olivenza in Portugal since it was the only place conquered between Spain and Portugal. Maybe Badajoz could be renamed Merida and a new province of Badajoz added in the western part, since Badajoz was a key military fortress in the border. So, Badajoz and Olivenza could be the keys to deterr/conquest the neighbour.

Galicia may appreciate some changes. Vigo is the biggest city today, but in 1444 Tui (for the frontier) or Pontevedra may be more important. Also Santiago is not a province today, but is the regional capital and it was the seat of the archbishops, so it should be represented. The best thing would be creating Santiago from the inner of the 4 provinces and making Coruña more sea oriented.

Balerics and Canary islands are ok with the division. Just check Spain can colonize the rest of Canary Islands early and that Menorca is british after the Treaty of Utrecht but goes back to Spain as in real life.

Catalonia seems ok. Lleida is actually in part of Tarragona, but the area looks too small in the map. Lleida could be added taking part of Tarragona and Urgel to give tactical depth between Catalonia and Aragon, but I would rename Urgel as some have suggested. The Spanish corregimientos and the French napoleonic department had a similar approach to your map, (only the capital changed betweed Puigcerda/Urgel/Talarn). It also allows to play in the frontier with France.

 

[Zaragoza]

I don't know why I can't edit the message above but I wanted to say "I wouldn't rename Urgel" instead of "I would"

 

[Camara]

My feedback on how Portugal could be improved in this update:

- In terms of provinces Portugal could get more 1 or 2 provinces, but what I think it's the most important is development.
Portugal is very poor at start, generally the recommended tactic for Portugal is to sell 2 of the carracks as Portugal can't support in the navy + the 3 advisors + the army when Morocco/Granada attacks.
The resources of Portugal are bad, which is historical, I think salt should be added specially in the zone of Alcácer do Sal (a new province?). Since the ancient ages Portugal was an exporter of salt.

Right now England is way more powerful than Portugal at start when actually in 1500 the difference in population between the countries was quite small (something like 1.5 M people vs 1.25 M, I don't have the correct numbers right now), compared to the gargantuan Castile's 6 M.
Portugal struggles with colonization early game because a colonist uses yet another 2 ducats per month, which for Portugal means no place for buildings just like all the other colonisers.
Historically Portugal was investing a lot in exploration, the fort of Arguin was built in 1445, 1 year after the game start, and Portugal was also actively trying to conquer more Moroccan provinces.
In the game if the Moroccan army crosses into Iberia Portugal is screwed unless Castile is babysitting Portugal. Portugal alone needs to wait for Castile to destroy Morocco in order to expand that, unlike in history.
So in short Portugal needs more income, in the current situation Castile with the bigger income will build more marketplaces and upgrade the cots, strangling Portugal's only chance of good income (trade).

Suggestion: more dev for Portugal.

- The portuguese navy is underpowered, Portugal has not a single military bonus in the national ideas.
In the game Portugal is a decentish naval power but far from other major countries (unless player intervention of course).
Historically Portugal was the undisputed naval superpower until 1600.
Portugal only needed 10 years to bulldoze all the indian ocean into submission just by naval power. And this wasn't by numbers: the portuguese ships until 1600 were the cutting edge of naval engineering and used innovative naval tactics. Even in the spanish armada the flagships were portuguese.
In the game Portugal struggles to conquer provinces from, for example, Kilwa in the early 1500s because Portugal has neither the army/manpower nor the naval power to crush past them easily. And this wasn't only against "primitive" countries (which Kilwa wasn't), when the portuguese ships faced against european powers they also proved their worth.

Suggestion: naval military bonus in the portuguese NIs. +20% morale of navies, +15% heavy ship combat ability, etc.
Basically Portugal was the Britain of the 1400s-1500s and the NIs should reflect this.

In general I think these are some of the reasons why Portugal fails massively at achieving what it did historically. In the 1520s controlling Malabar, the persian gulf, malacca, the swahili coast, bases in Africa while also beginning to colonise Brazil? Impossible.
For the game it is good that Portugal can't do this otherwise it would snowball massively, but generally Portugal dies to Morocco or Castile early so nowhere near this.

 

[Foefaller]

I understand your point, but Portugal is not that imbalanced. Historically speaking Castille and Portugal were good allies, hence you have a powerful friend to face Morocco. Portugal is quite safe under the Castilian umbrella thus bringing balance to a Portuguese run... unless you want to go up against Castille yourself but here again you can find a good ally in Aragon. You know who is the real loser of tags? Navarra. Here is a real challenge! But I'm sure our Basque fans will rise to it! And yes, we have more in store for Portugal but that is still a secret!

Unfortunately, Castille can be as much of a liability as an asset depending on how the starting rivalries go. If both Aragon and France are Castille's rivals but don't rival each other, you often see them ally and attack Castille at some point, which often leads to an opening for Morocco to attack as well, or go straight for Portugal. Had more than one Portugal game go south before 1500 because of that.

Now, I know not every game should be the same, and the only that should be 100% guaranteed is that the comet will come at the worst possible time. But for a nation that has the "Recommended for New Players" tag Im not sure that should happen at all (plus Castille getting attacked by their two strongest neighbors and having the new players tag too) and at least makes a good argument for Portugal getting a little more (not DLC) help to stand on its own.

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

You know who is the real loser of tags? Navarra. Here is a real challenge! But I'm sure our Basque fans will rise to it! And yes, we have more in store for Portugal but that is still a secret!

I trust you devs will make the game better.
But anything in store for our good old Navarra, who recently lost his precious coastal land, to help him survive without restart?

 

[Ura]

1.28 Nafarroa.

wikipedia:

Further information: Navarrese Civil War (1451–1455)
After Queen Blanche I of Navarre's death in 1441, Navarre was mired in continued disputes over royal succession. King John II was ruling in Aragon in the name of his brother, Alfonso V of Aragon. He left his son, the King Charles, Prince of Viana, only with the rank of governor, whereas Queen Blanche I had designed that he should succeed her, as it was the custom. In 1450, John II himself came back to Navarre, and urged on by his ambitious second wife Juana Enriquezendeavoured to obtain the succession for their son Ferdinand.

Mirroring inter-clan disputes during the bloody War of the Bands in the rest of the Basque territories, in 1451 Navarre split in two confederacies over royal succession, the Agramonts and the Beaumonts, with ramifications both within and outside Navarre. In the violent civil war that broke out, the Agramonts sided with John II, and the Beaumonts — named after their leader, the chancellor, John of Beaumont — espoused the cause of Charles, Prince of Viana.[58]:15 The fights involved the high aristocracy and their junior branches, who carried on the feuds of their senior lines and thrived on weak, often absent, royal authority.[59]:252

The unhappy prince Charles was defeated by his father at Aibar in 1451, and held a prisoner for two years, during which he wrote his famous Chronicle of Navarre, a major source for the period. After his release, Charles in vain sought the assistance of King Charles VII of France and his uncle Alfonso V (who resided in Naples). In 1460 he was again imprisoned at the instigation of his stepmother, but the Catalans rose in revolt at this injustice, and he was again liberated and named governor of Catalonia. He died in 1461, poisoned by his stepmother Juana Enríquez without being able to retake the reigns of Navarre. He had named as heir his next sister, Queen Blanche II, but she was immediately imprisoned by John II and died in 1464. While this episode of the civil war came to an end, it inaugurated a period of instability including on-off periods of struggle and uprisings all the way to the Spanish conquest (1512).

On Charles' demise in 1461, Eleanor of Navarre, Countess of Foix and Béarn, was proclaimed Princess of Viana, but the instability took a toll. The south-western tip of Navarre, the Sonsierra (Oyon, Laguardia, in present-day Álava), and Los Arcos, was occupied by Henry IV of Castile, and eventually annexed by Castile (1463), their permanent loss by Navarre being upheld by the French king Louis XI in Bayonne on 23 April 1463.[58]:15 John II continued to rule as king up to 1479, when Queen Eleanor succeeded him for only 15 days and died, leaving the crown to her grandson, Francis Phoebus, but this inaugurated another period of instability. Eleanor's 13-year-old granddaughter Catherine I of Navarre succeeded her brother Francis Phoebus, in accordance with his will (1483). As a minor she remained under the guardianship of her mother, Magdalena of Valois, and was sought by Ferdinand the Catholic as a bride. However, another claimant to the throne was stubbornly trying to stop her, John of Foix, Viscount of Narbonne, brother-in-law of future king of Louis XII of France. Invoking the French Salic Law, he called himself King of Navarre and sent diplomats to Ferdinand II.

Pressure built on Catherine's regent Magdalena of Valois who, intent on saving their French possessions, eventually decided to marry the young Queen to the 7-year-old John of Albret, despite the Parliament of Navarre's preference for John of Aragon, son of Ferdinand and Isabella.[58]:17 The Beaumont party rose up, while the Agramonts split over the marriage. Ferdinand II of Aragon in turn reconsidered his diplomatic policy on Navarre. The crown of Navarre fell back on their default policy of diplomacy, and signed the Treaty of Valencia on 21 March 1488, whereby trade was restored between Navarre and the Aragon-Castile tandem. Still, Ferdinand did not recognize Catherine and imposed Castilian troops in Navarre, banning French troops in both the kingdom and the principality of Béarn.[58]:17

"Before the sacrament of the holy unction is completed, this blessed coronation of yours, it is necessary for Your Royal Majesties to swear an oath to the people, as the monarchs of Navarre preceding you did formerly, so that the people can also swear an oath to you as set by custom [...] we swear [...] to the prelates, nobles [...] and men of the cities and good towns and all the people of Navarre [...] from all across the Kingdom of Navarre [...] all the fueros, as well as the mores, and customs, tax exemptions, liberties, privileges held by each of you—either here or absent."
Instructions to the monarchs Catherine and John III on the mandatory oath owed to the Kingdom of Navarre, and the oath itself, ahead of their coronation (1494).
Ferdinand also pushed for the introduction of the coercive cross-border tribunal, the Inquisition, which the Navarese hated, but under pressure from the Aragonese monarch the doors of Navarre (Tudela) finally opened to the Church institution between 1486 and 1488 pushed by the Aragonese monarch's threats. Still in 1510 the authorities of Tudela decreed the expulsion of the monk "calling himself inquisitor." Catherine and John III also lacked French royal support: both Charles VIII and Louis XII of France pushed hard to have John of Foix declared king. Finally, following a short period of peace with Ferdinand after a treaty was signed, in January 1494 the coronation of the royal family took place in Pamplona. The monarchs Catherine I and John III swore an oath to respect the liberties of Navarre, and the proclamation was celebrated with a week-long festival, while the ceremony was not attended by the Aragonese bishops with jurisdiction in Navarre. During this period, the realm of Navarre-Beárn was defined by Emperor Maximilian I's diplomat Müntzer as a nation like Switzerland.[60]:16 In the same treaty, Ferdinand renounced war on Navarre or Béarn from Castile, but the attempt to restore royal authority and patrimony met with the resistance of the defiant count of Lerin, Louis of Beaumont, whose estates where confiscated.

Catherine and John III's guardian Magdalena of Valois died in 1495 and John's father Alain I of Albret signed another treaty with Ferdinand, whereby the count of Lerín should abandon Navarre, receiving in compensation real estate and various enclaves in the recently conquered Granada. In exchange, Alain made an array of painful concessions: Ferdinand received the count of Lerín's patrimony and gained control of important fortresses across Navarre, including the right to keep a garrison in Olite at the heart of the kingdom. Also, Queen Catherine's 1-year-old daughter Magdalena was to be sent to Castile to be raised, with a plan on a future marriage — she would die young in Castile (1504).[58]:18–19 Following developments in France, the whole treaty was reverted in 1500 and another compromise was reached with Ferdinand, ensuring peace for another 4 years.

 

[WeissRaben]

So now Aragon has 16 provinces for 950k inhabitants, compared to Sicily's 3 for 600k inhabitants, Tuscany's 4 or 5 for 750k inhabitants, Milan's 4 for 1.25 million inhabitants, and Naples's 9 or 10 provinces for 2 million inhabitants. Italy really, really needs to be looked over.

 

[AlphaSonic]

View attachment 409577

I'm making a few changes. Will also be revising city placement later. Oddly enough most of the cities people have noted are in the wrong place are old cities that I didn't even touch.

re: Majorca tag - Convince me and I'll do it. Make a case from both a gameplay and historical perspective

I'd recommend as another person said. Instead of creating a province for Lleida, rename Urgell to Lleida since from that period of time to the future would be the important city of that province and reshape the province a little bit to fit Lleida. It would actually look like IRL province. If you want to keep the border between Huesca and Tarragona you can slightly redraw Huesca province like IRL too. The black dots are where the capitals of those province should be, Tarragona province should've capital Tarragona. (Unless you want to make a Tortosa province but that would be really small).

 

[Metz]

I suspect that there's a huge number of cities in the game that could be placed better. Make some detailed suggestions and I'll see what I can do.

Any chance of adding Lleida as the final decor to Aragon?

It was my thread on the Grand Duchy of Tuscany a few years ago that got it to be made a tag so let me try my luck again now with Mallorca.

From a historical point of view, even though Mallorca is of Catalan culture (with some distinctions), it is seen as a geographical appendage and an indirect guardian of the entrance to the Mediterranean. Historically, the British took Menorca during the war of Spanish Succession and used the island as a base for the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean for almost 70 years. Throughout the early modern period, the Balearic islands had to deal with the Berbers and the Ottomans, and therefore can be seen as an area more exposed to foreign combat than Iberia itself.

From a gameplay point of view, if Iberia falls, Mallorca should be a Hispanic oriented, cultural/martial military kingdom island as opposed to Aragon which is more of a naval trade power. Mallorca has a deep history of Christian, Jewish, and Islamic merchants interacting together to make profits. Having Mallorca as a tag would give the option to have a military island kingdom in the Mediterranean. It would also be more significant for countries like Granada and Morocco if they wish to expand into Europe. Mallorca was under Islamic rule for centuries and it could be a vassal country under a North African power and be used as a ally/base for harassment of continental Europeans.

 

[grandadmiralbob]

I love the detail in Galicia.

......And #$%$ you forum goers no so much about geography/history. Thanks paradox devs for the update, thanks everyone who posted before me for teaching me something new.