EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

[jobarin94]

As pointed out by a horde of my hyper-hyped spanish compatriots, the Lleida province is misplaced. If we're to stick to the map as it is now, the new aragonese province should be named Bajo Aragón ("Low Aragón", the historic name for the region that roughly matches with the province), or Alcañiz (the main historic town in the area). Definitely not Lleida.

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bajo_Aragón

The current province of Urgell could be renamed to Lleida, either works fine (Lets not be too picky here). As for Pirineo, I agree that Huesca or Jaca would be a much better and more consistent name. Pirineo is the spanish for Pyrenees, and it is the whole range of mountains that separates France and Spain, as you all know, which is already nicely represented by the wasteland.

Of course we can't expect extreme accuracy from eu4 provinces, but Lleida is too flagrant a mistake to be overseen (and very easy to mend!)

EDIT: After seeing how seriously some people are taking this, I feel obliged to add: I really like the changes, so thank you Paradox for your hard work. A few minor inaccuracies in the map are totally understandable and unimportant.

 

[Chief of Staff]

As things currently stand, though as always things are subject to change before release, Iberia consists of 571 development over 63 provinces. This includes the Macaronesia area but now excludes Labourd, which has been returned to the French region.

I've never even heard of Macaronesia and at first I thought it must be a reference to some Pacific islands similar to Micronesia until I googled it up. Apparently it's a group of islands in the North Atlantic off the coast (specifically, Canary Islands, Madeira, Azores, and Cape Verde). At least I learned something new and I have you to thank for that!

 

[Anastasius]

Will there be a rework of colonization as well? Like more dynamic Spanish province names in the Americas,perhaps expanding upon the treaty Tordesillas?

 

[TheRipper69-PT]

You might want to consider constructive criticism instead of attacking people personally for their work for which they have no doubt put many hours in even if they allegedly didn't put as much effort as they did in British Isles or Russia. You sound rather bitter in this post and I suspect that Paradox might not take you more seriously in that kind of tone. Don't forget that the devs are just as much human as you and I are. They will make mistakes but let's not get so personal about it. Your points about shortcomings of these map changes are valid but the way you are critiquing them like this will backfire on you. Please be considerate.

We did lot of suggestions, how many are in this map? Not many.

I have my own job, they have their own, if they fail to do a good job they will eeventually not sell and bankrupt. This is really bad for us as paradox fans and everytime someone does a poor job its our duty as fans to point it out.

 

[Zaragoza]

I've just googled "Reino de Aragon ciudades"
You can see where is Lleida.

Look it even says Kingdom of Aragon, Kingdom of Valencia and Kingdom of Mallorca.

Technically, the frontiers (black lines) are current but with the sole exception of the small amount of Valencia in Castilla (Requena and Utiel) that only became part of Valencia in 1851, they will be the same in 1444.

 

[AlphaSonic]

Technically, the frontiers (black lines) are current but with the sole exception of the small amount of Valencia in Castilla (Requena and Utiel) that only became part of Valencia in 1851, they will be the same in 1444.

I've just chose this map to choose possible city names and possible province names. It isn't meant to be accurate but If I were to do research for a possible rework of the map of Castille and Aragon I would pick up a map of the cities to know where they can be found and then draw the provinces as much as accurate and balanced as possible.

 

[Zudwa]

Valencia definitely has never existed as a tag in EU4. But the really strange thing is that it already had a flag buried in the gfx files for some reason. A mystery indeed.

Secret Valenсian separatism in Paradox?!

 

[Chief of Staff]

I've already did a quick fix (not complete) in page 5 of this thread.

It's difficult being considered when I'm being lied to my face. Because I see the results and I can't believe there was research put in this rework. Sorry I can't believe it. And seeing the reworks of the British Isles, Russia and India I expect similar quality and I don't see it.

You haven't even responded to my pleas for constructive criticism and being considerate, while I even said your points are valid. You just continued to be quite bitter about it. Please re-read my post and see why taking it so personally will not help you in trying to convince them to rectify the problems you see there. You are treating them as something less than human as though they should not be capable of making mistakes like this, which is not the way to go about it. Don't forget the famous Golden Rule: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

 

[Chief of Staff]

We did lot of suggestions, how many are in this map? Not many.

I have my own job, they have their own, if they fail to do a good job they will eeventually not sell and bankrupt. This is really bad for us as paradox fans and everytime someone does a poor job its our duty as fans to point it out.

I never even said you shouldn't criticize them. I was arguing for constructive criticism and being considerate. I am talking about the ways you criticize their mistakes or flaws, not whether you can or can not criticize. Two entirely different things.

 

[GeneralCastaños]

Calatayud was the second most populated city of Aragon from the middle ages to the 20th century, it would be better to redraw and include it in place of the catalan city of Lleida.
In Calatayud was named heir Fernando the Catholic, was signed the incorporation of Gran Canaria to Castilla and Gracian born in a town near and studied there.

 

[AlphaSonic]

You might want to consider constructive criticism instead of attacking people personally for their work for which they have no doubt put many hours in even if they allegedly didn't put as much effort as they did in British Isles or Russia. You sound rather bitter in this post and I suspect that Paradox might not take you more seriously in that kind of tone. Don't forget that the devs are just as much human as you and I are. They will make mistakes but let's not get so personal about it. Your points about shortcomings of these map changes are valid but the way you are critiquing them like this will backfire on you. Please be considerate.

I'm bitter because I see a bad job, and it's being praised. Sorry if in my job I did research wrong I get reprimanded and I'm expected to correct it. I don't want PR answer about how much do they work and everything. We do too. Advice was given and I felt it was ignored. If I sound bitter, it's because I am, and I'm not ashamed of it.
I should remind people that even though they aren't Spanish, Portuguese... It is their job to do research for it as accurate as possible they are being paid for that, the same way most of us are being paid in our jobs for do our job.

I just want them to acknowledge the innaccuracies and try to fix them, maybe I'm asking for too much.

 

[GeoHector]

WoW, things got a bit heated here. Calm down people, devs do the better they can and if you ask politely for it they can consider changing it. Raging and being disrespectful doesn't help you.

It's funny because people are complaining about wrong name provinces, which has a simple solution, meanwhile the redrawn for Portugal is underwhelming for me, and I don't hear that much about it.

In the end, I also think a bit more precision could have been done in the redrawn of Iberia. It is a nice work, though!

 

[Celdur]

18th Century? That's a bit generous; considering Spain was such a mess it had to declare bankruptcy 4 times in the period of 1557-1596. Not to mention the Independence of the Netherlands, the loss of the Armada, complete failure of economic policies which led to spiraling inflation...

Major power; yes. Superpower? Spain was never this. In the early periods of EU4 the Superpower was the Ottomans, and in the later periods it was GB and France. The only part of the timeframe you could claim Spain as a superpower was perhaps the mid 1500's; before aformentioned Bankruptcies. But it's rather difficult to claim that Spain was the strongest nation; significantly above all others to the degree you could call it a Superpower at any point.

This is very British biased, did you know, they counter-attacked Spain with an "armada" of their own, massive invasion and lost it, another one, in the the middle of the XVIII century, Britain lost the biggest naval invasion fleet in history trying to invade Cartagena de Indias located in Colombia, the goal was, no less, to take control of the main South American port to Europe and choke Spain off the mainland, to then move inland and take over all of Western South America, one of the most critical battles in history. Many, many defeats and disasters of the British are hidden in their historical memory, and yet, they are still considered an important power. Why? because they could recover, that's what sets great powers apart, they can recover from major losses and come back to the fight.

 

[HottestRod]

@RodDel

Using google maps would be a good idea for example. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to google maps Lleida and see, welp this doesn't belong in that province at all.

I see the map and what you are saying doesn't correspond to the results. The map rework is not satisfactory and ahistorical. -> Asturias tag encompassing most of Castile and Lleida province.

You are saying the dev team is working as much as they can. But it doesn't show in the results. I see the map and I see things where they don't belong to.

Oh and if the devs work as much as they could like in the Irish update, maybe the could've added more than 1 province to Portugal. I can't believe what you've said. We've seen the rework of Ireland, and we've seen this. Ireland got more attention than the Iberian peninsula.

@RodDel


Sorry, but again. What you've said before doesn't correspond with the final result. This is not a good map update, how is it possible that you could find enough time to research for the British Isles and Russia but not for the Iberian peninsula.

It's not complex to add Majorca tag, you've added Asturias that gets cores in completely ahistorical provinces.
If you wanted to balance the region you could even add a Cordoba tag! It wouldn't have been that far fecthed. Portugal again is being forgotten. No, this is not good, and splitting Galicia into 4 provinces like IRL is not something that requires more than 10 minutes of research, let's be real.

Moreover: I would like to know who did the map and new tag rework. Because he did a bad job and he doesn't deserve to be praised. That person didn't do a good enough research, it is bad.

Edit: I'm complaining because this is not obscure history from a country that does not longer exist. It's google, you can google most of the information and it doesn't take time what we see here is lack of attention.

I completely understand your point, and here you are giving us good feedback. Yet, you have to remember that the development diaries are here not only to inform you about the direction we are taking, they are also a good way to gather feedback. Development diaries are usually work in progress and not the final product, hence they can be subject to change (depending on the suggestions made by the community and if they align with our vision - see my previous post). Development diaries are a good way to correct mistakes that might have gone under the radar. Now, regarding the points you have brought up:

• Lleida will have a rework - and Zaragoza might be more central.
• The Majorca tag is under consideration.
• The Cordoba tag as been deemed unnecessary as Granada already covers the area (we are currently doing great work on the latter, stay tuned for more information). But again, maybe you might have a good suggestion as to why we should include this tag? If so I will bring it up in my report to the dev team.
• Province density for Portugal hasn't change much as it was on par with the rest of Spain. By changing it we would upset the game balance.

Hope these points will address your concerns.

 

[Zaragoza]

I've just chose this map to choose possible city names and possible province names. It isn't meant to be accurate but If I were to do research for a possible rework of the map of Castille and Aragon I would pick up a map of the cities to know where they can be found and then draw the provinces as much as accurate and balanced as possible.

It was just a curiosity. If you check the map, there are interesting points but all happended from outside EU4 timeline. That was actually the only change in those frontiers (Aragón/Catalonia/Valencia) between 1444 and now that was no reverted soon after.The rest is actually suitable for EU4

 

[CarlosV]

Map changes look great but i do not understand the historical background of making the Balearic islands part of Catalonia. Considering that they were conquered in the XIIIth century by Aragon, shouldnt they be part of it ? or at least they should have their own tag @neondt

There is a difference between the kingdom and the crown of Aragon. The crown was the name of the whole "confederation" formed by the kingdoms of Aragon and Valencia, the principality of Catalonia and the rest of territories (without major individual representative institutions like courts) Historically and legally speaking, the Balearic Islands were surrogate to Catalonia. The king never summoned courts for the islands and their estates and representatives were attended during the courts of Catalonia or the general courts of the crown.

Between 1276-1349 a cadet branch of the house of Barcelona reigned the "vassal" kingdom of Mallorca, who also controlled the county of Roussillon and the city of Montpellier. The "disloyal" attitude of the cadet branch "forced" the reincorporation of those territories under the senior branch control. Paradox could recreate that kingdom putting cores on those territories xD

 

[flogi]

I expected a bit more tactical depth for Portugal to be honest. I understand that adding provinces for Portugal exclusively would upset game balance, so additions to Castille and Aragon would be needed which would affect France and so on and so forth.
However I still think that compared to the status quo in India Europe is a bit lacking in terms of number of provinces.
This would quickly snowball towards having many many many more provinces but I wouldn't consider that a bad thing.

 

[AlphaSonic]

I completely understand your point, and here you are giving us good feedback. You have to remember that the development diaries are here not only to inform you about the direction we are taking, they are also a good way to gather feedback. Development diaries are usually work in progress and not the final product, hence they can be subject to change (depending on the suggestions made by the community and if they align with our vision - see my previous post). Development diaries are a good way to correct mistakes that might have gone under the radar. Now, regarding the points you have brought up:

• Lleida will have a rework - and Zaragoza might be more central.
• The Majorca tag is under consideration.
• The Cordoba tag as been deemed unnecessary as Granada already covers the area (we are currently doing great work on the latter, stay tuned for more information). But again, maybe you might have a good suggestion as to why we should include this tag? If so I will bring it up in my report to the dev team.
• Province density for Portugal hasn't change much as it was on par with the rest of Spain. By changing it we would upset the game balance.

Hope these points will address your concerns.

Thank you very much for the answer. I didn't want to try to offend you, it's just that the way you've answered the first time rubbed me the wrong way and I'm sorry for that.

 

[HottestRod]

Thank you very much. I didn't want to try to offend you, it's just that the way you've answered the first time rubbed me the wrong way and I'm sorry for that.

None taken! You were voicing concerns, and understandable ones!

 

[neondt]

I expected a bit more tactical depth for Portugal to be honest. I understand that adding provinces for Portugal exclusively would upset game balance, so additions to Castille and Aragon would be needed which would affect France and so on and so forth.
However I still think that compared to the status quo in India Europe is a bit lacking in terms of number of provinces.
This would quickly snowball towards having many many many more provinces but I wouldn't consider that a bad thing.

I think that adding a large (as in, much more than I've added here for Iberia) number of new provinces in Europe would require a look at overall development balance. Particularly raising the global total amount of development. I won't say that will never happen but it isn't planned right now. And that means there's a limit on how many provinces we can add before each province becomes too weak individually.