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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

zenphoenix

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I concede. Maybe we'll be better prepared for these reforms in thirty years or so...
In the meantime, I need to arrange a tutor for my young Ryoma...he's already learned to talk. He'll make a fine speaker when he comes of age.

~Sakamoto
 

oxfordroyale

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Save the Emperor: Yes
Hang Asahi Daika: Yes
Hang Tarou Seita: Yes

[Regional]
[Shikoku]
 

Terraferma

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Nippon Army Act: Abstain
Regional Armies Act: Abstain
Save the Emperor Agreement: Yes
War Adviser Act: Yes
Reformation of the Government of Japan: No

[Regional Daimyo]
[Kanto]

~ Motoro Kusenagi
 

Red_Galiray

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((Sorry guys. I think I got overexited and made my character too democratic. That is, as you all pointed out, innacurate. However, I'm glad you somehow managed to represent that, because my character is going to be executed, isn't he? I don't know almost anything about Feudal Japan, so that made my attempt worser. The thing I said about socialist, and being a democrat monarchy simpatizer were a joke... It's something like naming Japan as "People's Democratic Socialist Royal Empire of Japan" Something that doesn't make sense, and that's the joke (a bad joke, I know). Forgive me. My character will get executed, and I can't do anything for it. Perhaps I can add something relating how he obtained those ideas.... About being humiliated, I think I am humiliated now. Sorry for "gettting in your nerves". Not everybody knows how Feudal Japan's people acted and though. I don't, at least. Can I just say my character killed himself to end this inmediatly? Then you can continue with a "historical correct" IARR. I think that getting into a Japan IAAAr when I don't know anything about the Japan of that era was a bad idea. After my character execution I'll go to find another IARR, where my "democratic" ideas will be well-received. You know, to the west...))
 

Davout

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Nippon Army Act: No
Regional Armies Act: No
Save the Emperor Agreement: No
War Adviser Act: No
Reformation of the Government of Japan: No


[Provincial Daimyo]
[Kyushu]

Yamamoto Hirakuni
 

Andre Massena

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((Sorry guys. I think I got overexited and made my character too democratic. That is, as you all pointed out, innacurate. However, I'm glad you somehow managed to represent that, because my character is going to be executed, isn't he? I don't know almost anything about Feudal Japan, so that made my attempt worser. The thing I said about socialist, and being a democrat monarchy simpatizer were a joke... It's something like naming Japan as "People's Democratic Socialist Royal Empire of Japan" Something that doesn't make sense, and that's the joke (a bad joke, I know). Forgive me. My character will get executed, and I can't do anything for it. Perhaps I can add something relating how he obtained those ideas.... About being humiliated, I think I am humiliated now. Sorry for "gettting in your nerves". Not everybody knows how Feudal Japan's people acted and though. I don't, at least. Can I just say my character killed himself to end this inmediatly? Then you can continue with a "historical correct" IARR. I think that getting into a Japan IAAAr when I don't know anything about the Japan of that era was a bad idea. After my character execution I'll go to find another IARR, where my "democratic" ideas will be well-received. You know, to the west...))
((It's okay, I would just make a more moderate character. Maybe you can be a modernized but still believe in the Jaoanese feudal system. There's also Thunderhawk's Italy IAAR if you also want to join that))


Matsui gleefully examines his gold bars
 

Red_Galiray

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Feb 15, 2015
138
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((It's okay, I would just make a more moderate character. Maybe you can be a modernized but still believe in the Jaoanese feudal system. There's also Thunderhawk's Italy IAAR if you also want to join that))


Matsui gleefully examines his gold bars
((I think I will just let Asahi to die in prision. In the meantime, I'll seacrh about Feudal Japan to make a better character later on. I'll try to join that IAAR too.))

"Asahi starts to lose hope. He thinks he shouldn't have go to that trip to England his father's friend organized when he was just a kid. He shouldn't have talked with that extremist at London either. He, that bastard, was the one who thaugh every crazy idea about democracy to him."
 

Michaelangelo

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Many winds of change
Blow far too strong for Nippon
In these troubled times

In the years to come
The winds of change will return
As a gentle breeze

- Daimyo Ito Katashi

((This is why I don't usually write poetry. :p))
 

Canadian_95_RTS

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Nippon Army Act: No
Regional Armies Act: No
Save the Emperor Act: Abstain
War Advisor Act: No
Reformation of the Government of Japan: No

[Provincial Daimyo]
[Chubu]
 

Marschalk

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Nippon Army Act:Nay
Regional Armies Act: Nay

These plans infringe upon the rights of the Daimyo, giving away their natural retainers into the hands of the bureaucrats and military officials.

Save the Emperor Agreement: Aye

While it greatly pains myself that, among the sons of Amaterasu, there are now persons so depraved and mad that they may speak with a snakes tongue, daring to question the authority of the Tenshi(天子), the Bakufu government and the princely rulers of Japanese domains, so that we do need to sign such an agreement, I believe that now it is neccessary to guard the sacrosanctity of our beloved land.

War Adviser Act: Nay
Reformation of the Government of Japan:Nay

I must express opposition to this document, for it replicates the Western constitutions which believe that written words authored by powerful people are the source of establishment and limitation of authority. These who would wish our beloved Emperor to rule directly, instead of entrusting the day-to-day government of the realm to the Bakufu, must ask themselves the following question: how can they dare to both limit the Descendant of the Sun Goddess, holding the Absolute Divine Mandate, in his authority, saying that His word is not law in all cases, taking from Him the right to judge all his subjects or letting His subjects, Rōjū, to "veto" the proposals supported by our Imperial Master? More than that, how can they limit, whom the Heavenly Sovereign may appoint as Tairo? More than that, how can the Daimyo instruct the Mikado to implement these reforms, if He is fine with the current order?

Also, while only a mere outside lord, I must say that the title of Shogun has been, on a hereditary basis, given by the Mikado to the Tokugawa family - and the Emperor did not choose to rescind this privilege. However the authors of this bill wish to, through this small and irrelevant piece of paper, strip the Tokugawa clan of its authority - is not calling for a civil war and turmoil, is it not taking upon ourselves what only the Heavens and the Emperor only can undo? And to these that are connected with the Shogun and his family I must say the following - supporting this proposal is an act of outright disloyalty, unworthy of the people of Nippon.

To end this speech, I must state that proposals regarding the army of Nippon and the so-called Reformation, in their entity, do not correspond with the core values of Bushido, being disloyal both to the Emperor, Shogun and the Daimyo. For one must remember what the great Yamamoto Tsunetsomo of Saga, the author of Hagakure said, defining the main Bushido tenets:

Never be outdone in Bushido
Be faithful to my liege lord
Practice filial piety towards my parents

However, we do know that the author of this document already ignored these demands, having rebelled against his lordly father...

- Daimyo Asano Naritaka of Hiroshima

[Provinciall]
[Chugoku]
 

LordTempest

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((Sorry guys. I think I got overexited and made my character too democratic. That is, as you all pointed out, innacurate. However, I'm glad you somehow managed to represent that, because my character is going to be executed, isn't he? I don't know almost anything about Feudal Japan, so that made my attempt worser. The thing I said about socialist, and being a democrat monarchy simpatizer were a joke... It's something like naming Japan as "People's Democratic Socialist Royal Empire of Japan" Something that doesn't make sense, and that's the joke (a bad joke, I know). Forgive me. My character will get executed, and I can't do anything for it. Perhaps I can add something relating how he obtained those ideas.... About being humiliated, I think I am humiliated now. Sorry for "gettting in your nerves". Not everybody knows how Feudal Japan's people acted and though. I don't, at least. Can I just say my character killed himself to end this inmediatly? Then you can continue with a "historical correct" IARR. I think that getting into a Japan IAAAr when I don't know anything about the Japan of that era was a bad idea. After my character execution I'll go to find another IARR, where my "democratic" ideas will be well-received. You know, to the west...))
((OR, maybe - just maybe - you could consider creating a new character with, I dunno... different, more historically plausible political views? Nobody likes an Enewald, or that same pack of rabid socialists (you know who I mean..) who drift from iAAR to iAAR following the exact same boring ideological script each time. So you can't follow your own real-life political agenda in an iAAR - so what? That's no reason to quit participating.))
 

liefwarrior

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Thank you for being so forthright in admitting that you were indeed behind it. If a man dictates a letter, he hasn't technically written it either, has he?
Your delirious mind has clearly only accelerated your paranoia for you see schemes behind every word that leaves my mouth. I am but a Daimyo who wishes the best for Nippon; I try my hardest to remain untainted by the greed and dishonesty that rules much of my fellow aristocracy. No, a man has not technically written a letter if he has simply dictated it. I however swear an oath on my ancestors that I did not interfere with the creation of the article that appeared in the 政治特使.

The Tokugawa have been shoguns for well over two centuries, and you seek to depose them by appointing a new shogun. I don't see how such an act can be seen as anything but as a treasonous act towards the Tokugawa family. Or, did you forget whom it is we Daimyo serve and owe our positions to?



I would say that we 大名 Daimyo owed our positions to the 天皇 Emperor but that would so unfortunately be false. Instead the 将軍 Shogun holds power and for that we can be grateful; my 家門 family still remembers the time of the 戦国時代 Sengoku Jidai. That is not a time that we would like to return to; a time of darkness were brother fought brother. That is not what we need while we are
surrounded by the 南蛮 Nanban. I would therefore like to withdraw my proposal: Reformation of the Government of Japan; if that is possible.

((Is it possible to withdraw a proposal once it has been sent to vote Naxhi? I assume it would not be in a civilized nation but I'm unsure as we are currently uncivilized. ))

How foolish of you to assume such a thing. We wish to open Japan's doors to the world for the advancement and the betterment of Japan and her people. I don't see how the deposition of the Tokugawa family will achieve this.
The 徳川幕府 Tokugawa Shogunate has brought upon us 鎖国 Sakoku leaving us relatively isolated from the 南蛮 Nanban. Only minuscule amounts of trade with them has been allowed; something you and others like you wish to change. You claim you want modernisation and reform; to strengthen 日本 Nippon with great cannon and ships. The current 幕府 Bakufu stands in your way, yet you decide to let it continue to stand for little reason. Clearly the 徳川 Tokugawa hold more power then I had expected.

Fortunately you have chosen not to build your argument on 侮辱 Bujoku and have instead shown yourself reasonable. Despite the fact that you are evidently incorrect I will respect your opinions on this delicate subject.

~ Yoshito; 1st Lord Fureno-Shizuoka
 

LordTempest

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Your delirious mind has clearly only accelerated your paranoia for you see schemes behind every word that leaves my mouth. I am but a Daimyo who wishes the best for Nippon; I try my hardest to remain untainted by the greed and dishonesty that rules much of my fellow aristocracy. No, a man has not technically written a letter if he has simply dictated it. I however swear an oath on my ancestors that I did not interfere with the creation of the article that appeared in the 政治特使.
And yet, you admit that you are in frequent contact with its author. You may fool lesser men, Lord Fureno, but you don't fool me.

I would say that we 大名 Daimyo owed our positions to the 天皇 Emperor but that would so unfortunately be false. Instead the 将軍 Shogun holds power and for that we can be grateful; my 家門 family still remembers the time of the 戦国時代 Sengoku Jidai. That is not a time that we would like to return to; a time of darkness were brother fought brother. That is not what we need while we are
surrounded by the 南蛮 Nanban. I would therefore like to withdraw my proposal: Reformation of the Government of Japan; if that is possible.
You must have known that advocating the deposition of the Shogun would lead to the deposition of the Shogun - even the most lowly of peasants would have understood that. Obviously, deposing the Shogun would also lead to civil war, for the very act of deposing a reigning Shogun is equal in effect to declaring war on the Tokugawa family. The idea that you could depose the Tokugawa Shogun without doing either is naive beyond comprehension - there is no place for such naievity in any ruler of men, such as a Daimyo.

The 徳川幕府 Tokugawa Shogunate has brought upon us 鎖国 Sakoku leaving us relatively isolated from the 南蛮 Nanban. Only minuscule amounts of trade with them has been allowed; something you and others like you wish to change. You claim you want modernisation and reform; to strengthen 日本 Nippon with great cannon and ships. The current 幕府 Bakufu stands in your way, yet you decide to let it continue to stand for little reason. Clearly the 徳川 Tokugawa hold more power then I had expected.

Sakoku was brought upon us not by the Tokugawa Shogunate, but by a Tokugawa Shogun, Iemitsu. It was Iemitsu's honourable ancestor, Ieyasu, who launched the first modern naval expansion programme in Japanese history. It was with Ieyasu's permission that Hasekura-dono was able to become the first Japanese to visit the Nanban lands, and enter the great Nanban palaces. It was Ieyasu who sponsored the Red Seal trading programme, which delivered to our lands a state of wealth and prosperity the likes of which it has sadly not seen either before or since.

The cause of the modernisation and strengthening of Japan, and the abolition of Sakoku, is thus not an act of rebellion against the Tokugawa Shogunate, but one of loyalty to the true principles of Tokugawa Ieyasu, the first and greatest of all Tokugawa Shoguns.

-- Hosokawa-dono, Lord of Higo and Roju of Kyushu
 

liefwarrior

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I have never advocated the disposition of the Shogun! I can only assume that you have taken it upon yourself to taint the name Fureno so that it never again rises to challenge your power and greed.

~ Yoshito; Lord Fureno-Shizuoka

((A better argument/ more elabaration is coming dont worry :D))
 

EmperorBasilius

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日本軍の行為 Nippon Army Act: いいえ No
地域の軍隊は行動します Regional Armies Act: いいえ No
天皇契約を保存します Save The Emperor Agreement: いいえ No
戦争顧問行為 War Adviser Act: いいえ No
日本政府の改革 Reformation Of The Government of Japan: いいえ No

[Provincial Daimyo]
[Kyushu]

~ 大名西村浩、福岡藩の主 Daimyo Nishimura Hiroshi, Lord of the Fukuoka Domain
 

Red_Galiray

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((OR, maybe - just maybe - you could consider creating a new character with, I dunno... different, more historically plausible political views? Nobody likes an Enewald, or that same pack of rabid socialists (you know who I mean..) who drift from iAAR to iAAR following the exact same boring ideological script each time. So you can't follow your own real-life political agenda in an iAAR - so what? That's no reason to quit participating.))
((Well, I'm not a democratac or republican in real life. In fiction I've always found kings and kingdom to be great. After I read my text for the second time I realized it gives the idea I'm going to quit. No, I'm not going to, I'm going to search about Feudal Japan to make a better charactr once the actual dies. In the meantime I'll join another IARR where a rabid socialist would be historical plausible))

"Asahi... Asaji... Which one was my name?" Asahi starts to become crazy...
 

liefwarrior

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And yet, you admit that you are in frequent contact with its author. You may fool lesser men, Lord Fureno, but you don't fool me.
I fool no-one, not even you. Instead you have fooled yourself.

You must have known that advocating the deposition of the Shogun would lead to the deposition of the Shogun - even the most lowly of peasants would have understood that. Obviously, deposing the Shogun would also lead to civil war, for the very act of deposing a reigning Shogun is equal in effect to declaring war on the Tokugawa family. The idea that you could depose the Tokugawa Shogun without doing either is naive beyond comprehension - there is no place for such naievity in any ruler of men, such as a Daimyo.
Yet not one year ago we "deposed" the old 将軍 Shogun and I am yet to see civil war appear. My reforms do not call for the disposition of the 将軍 Shogun rather the end of the "genetic" succession of the 幕府 Bakufu (Shogunate). Instead the 天皇 Ten'no (Emperor) can choose whoever is best for our country. If we did implement said reforms you claim that they would lead to civil war but if the 大名 Daimyo collaborate then we will have far more power then the 徳川 Tokugawa as they are themselves little more then 大名 Daimyo without our support. It would be unlikely for civil war to sprout from such reforms.

Sakoku was brought upon us not by the Tokugawa Shogunate, but by a Tokugawa Shogun, Iemitsu. It was Iemitsu's honourable ancestor, Ieyasu, who launched the first modern naval expansion programme in Japanese history. It was with Ieyasu's permission that Hasekura-dono was able to become the first Japanese to visit the Nanban lands, and enter the great Nanban palaces. It was Ieyasu who sponsored the Red Seal trading programme, which delivered to our lands a state of wealth and prosperity the likes of which it has sadly not seen either before or since.

徳川 家康 Tokugawa Ieyasu indeed did all those things and more; but just as important are what the other 徳川 Tokugawa have done. 徳川 家光 幕府 Iemitsu's Bakufu lead to the implementation of 鎖国 Sakoku and his successors have done nothing to change that. Therefore you can not claim that the 徳川 幕府 Tokugawa Bakufu is not the reason that 日本 Nippon has failed to modernise.

The cause of the modernisation and strengthening of Japan, and the abolition of Sakoku, is thus not an act of rebellion against the Tokugawa Shogunate, but one of loyalty to the true principles of Tokugawa Ieyasu, the first and greatest of all Tokugawa Shoguns.
It is undeniable that your cause is identifiable as similar to that of 徳川 家康 Tokugawa Ieyasu. Unfortunately successive 徳川 Tokugawa have been less faithful to his example. If 徳川 家康 Tokugawa Ieyasu was alive today then it would be his wish to see an end to a hereditary 幕府 Shogunate.

~ Yoshito; Lord Fureno-Shizuoka
 

liefwarrior

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((And there is my better argument just like I said :D))
 

LordTempest

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Yet not one year ago we "deposed" the old 将軍 Shogun and I am yet to see civil war appear. My reforms do not call for the disposition of the 将軍 Shogun rather the end of the "genetic" succession of the 幕府 Bakufu (Shogunate). Instead the 天皇 Ten'no (Emperor) can choose whoever is best for our country. If we did implement said reforms you claim that they would lead to civil war but if the 大名 Daimyo collaborate then we will have far more power then the 徳川 Tokugawa as they are themselves little more then 大名 Daimyo without our support. It would be unlikely for civil war to sprout from such reforms.
No, we didn't depose a Shogun. We humbly suggested to the reigning Shogun that in light of his advanced age and ailing health, it would be wise for him to abdicate in favour of his lawful successor, a fellow Tokugawa. Your plan would disrupt the political status quo and invite daimyo to plot against daimyo: the current system clearly defines that when one Tokugawa dies, another Tokugawa takes over. As long as the Tokugawa clan remain respected, stability is achieved. This stability is impossible to achieve under any "Elective Shogunate."

徳川 家康 Tokugawa Ieyasu indeed did all those things and more; but just as important are what the other 徳川 Tokugawa have done. 徳川 家光 幕府 Iemitsu's Bakufu lead to the implementation of 鎖国 Sakoku and his successors have done nothing to change that. Therefore you can not claim that the 徳川 幕府 Tokugawa Bakufu is not the reason that 日本 Nippon has failed to modernise.

The dynasty is not at fault for the sins of its predecessors, any more than Iemitsu can take credit for the many achievements of his grandfather. If there was some universal law that stated that all future Tokugawa Shoguns should do as their predecessors did, then Sakoku would never have come into being in the first place!


Just as Iemitsu strayed from the path of his grandfather, the young Shogun may stray from the path of Iemitsu, and back onto that of Ieyasu.

It is undeniable that your cause is identifiable as similar to that of 徳川 家康 Tokugawa Ieyasu. Unfortunately successive 徳川 Tokugawa have been less faithful to his example. If 徳川 家康 Tokugawa Ieyasu was alive today then it would be his wish to see an end to a hereditary 幕府 Shogunate.
How audacious of you to assume that you and you alone are privy to the thoughts of the noble dead. The late Ieyasu was an especially patient man, and would not condemn any Shogun without first giving him the time to rule. He also favoured stability in all things, and surely would not dare to implement a system of governance which encouraged the daimyo to bicker and fight against one another.

-- Hosokawa-dono, Lord of Higo and Roju of Kyushu