Formulating a few suggestions for added features for the Humanoid Species Pack

[Snorro Soliman]

A stellaris forum, a spirited debate about evolution, design and chance and many other topics, fun to read.
To attempt remaining somewhat on thread, I do admit it is kinda hard thinking about tropes that specifically apply to Humanoids.
Even my own suggestions aren't exclusive to the humanoid species. No reason the Bene Gesserit cannot be awesome girlbirds, or mushroomdames, after all.
You see every other trope plays of a human baseline: all Stellaris species have(humancoded) genders, use human distinct forms of government and use tools(spaceships, stations,etc). Everyone also acts according to the same game rules.

In order to differentiate along species lines, humanoids and other species need to be distinct in all of the categories above; or simpler be actually mechanically distinct on the species level or some other fundamental aspect intervowen into the game.
A good example of this is Endless space 2(contrast colonising as Vodyani vs the Unfallen). Stellaris is moving into this direction (lithoids eating minerals and slamming meteors into planets to colonize).
Humans can then become distinct as they classically are in most scifi games: by being vanilla.
Unsatisfying and very difficult to expand on. Perhaps we humanoids are naturally adapt at intellectual pursuits, having no great physical advantages? This would yield a rather boring research bonus.....
Its quite hard, is it not?

 

[WordyBird]

Humanoid - Bonus Opinions with other Humanoid countries at first contact, easier infiltration against other Humanoid countries

This stood out to me as "really needs to be a base feature of the game for every portrait type." Even empires that aren't xenophiles might be a bit warmer with species that somewhat resemble them.

 

[HistoricalScore1]

Humans can then become distinct as they classically are in most scifi games: by being vanilla.
Unsatisfying and very difficult to expand on. Perhaps we humanoids are naturally adapt at intellectual pursuits, having no great physical advantages? This would yield a rather boring research bonus.....
Its quite hard, is it not?

It's a challenge to be sure. I don't envy @grekulf and his team in the task for humanoids. I agree humans have no advantages or disadvantages makes sense. But an Ork (40k)? Yeah, they are a lot stronger, reproduce like crazy, and are extremely adaptable. They also fight amongst themselves more than others. Dwarves are short and stout, have higher resolve and are master engineers. Elves...they...live longer or something.

As for humans being intelligent...not really in terms of + Research in Stellaris. We often spend a lot of time doing silly research experiments, often multiple times, across different nations (because we don't share information). How many companies are working on actual AI, how many companies/nations are working separately on the Helium3 race? The basics of science is testing a hypothesis with an experiment and crossing it off the "doesn't work" list until it "works." If we were actually one unified planet, we'd accomplish a lot more in a lot less.

 

[Snorro Soliman]

It's a challenge to be sure. I don't envy @grekulf and his team in the task for humanoids. I agree humans have no advantages or disadvantages makes sense. But an Ork (40k)? Yeah, they are a lot stronger, reproduce like crazy, and are extremely adaptable. They also fight amongst themselves more than others. Dwarves are short and stout, have higher resolve and are master engineers. Elves...they...live longer or something.

As for humans being intelligent...not really in terms of + Research in Stellaris. We often spend a lot of time doing silly research experiments, often multiple times, across different nations (because we don't share information). How many companies are working on actual AI, how many companies/nations are working separately on the Helium3 race? The basics of science is testing a hypothesis with an experiment and crossing it off the "doesn't work" list until it "works." If we were actually one unified planet, we'd accomplish a lot more in a lot less.

Fair points. You are right ofcourse. Not all humanoids are humans.
Technically though(I hate to be that guy) 40K Orks are Sentient Magic Fungi. I think in Stellaris they would be psionic Fungoids.

It remains a problem though. As a species category humanoids are hard to classify except by differentiating internally. Humanoids are 'like humans'. Typical fantasy Dwarfs are 'short and stocky humanoids who live long, like gold, are hyperfocused on their learned skills and perpetually grumpy'
Elves are 'tall and slender, long lived humanoids with sharp senses, a connection to the natural world and innate beauty'.
Theoretically we could have shroom dwarves and shroom elfs, sure, but Stellaris differentiates between humanoids and the other -oids. All Lithoids eat rocks and can take certain unique genetraits (generating rare resources).
The solution might would be '-oid specific' genetraits like lithoids have.
Therein lies tge rub for me. I cant really think of traits that would fit only humanoid species. Perhaps humanoids are naturally tribal (+stability), or form effective governments (+aminities,+ governing ethics)....

 

[HistoricalScore1]

Fair points. You are right ofcourse. Not all humanoids are humans.
Technically though(I hate to be that guy) 40K Orks are Sentient Magic Fungi. I think in Stellaris they would be psionic Fungoids.

It remains a problem though. As a species category humanoids are hard to classify except by differentiating internally. Humanoids are 'like humans'. Typical fantasy Dwarfs are 'short and stocky humanoids who live long, like gold, are hyperfocused on their learned skills and perpetually grumpy'
Elves are 'tall and slender, long lived humanoids with sharp senses, a connection to the natural world and innate beauty'.
Theoretically we could have shroom dwarves and shroom elfs, sure, but Stellaris differentiates between humanoids and the other -oids. All Lithoids eat rocks and can take certain unique genetraits (generating rare resources).
The solution might would be '-oid specific' genetraits like lithoids have.
Therein lies tge rub for me. I cant really think of traits that would fit only humanoid species. Perhaps humanoids are naturally tribal (+stability), or form effective governments (+aminities,+ governing ethics)....

The Orks, also called greenskins, are a savage, warlike, green-skinned species of humanoids who possess physiological features of both animals and fungi who are spread all across the Milky Way Galaxy. They share many features with Warhammer Fantasy Orks (and were initially called "Space Orcs" to distinguish them).

From the wiki. I don't know what they actually are. It's an interesting conversation, but PDS Green can't exactly have Orks, because that may be an IP-breach. I don't know. But they can have orcs, as that's been used by DnD, Blizzard (Warcraft), Tolkien, many fantasy books I've read, etc. And orcs are generally physically stronger than a human. Oh, and some even can see much better in the dark.

I don't really consider our countries very stable. Protests, crime, literal multiple parties disagreeing on what color tie the person in charge is wearing. Though this is a sci-fi futuristic government. So, who knows, I could be practicing presentism. In a little less than a hundred years we could end our trivial squabbles. But I still don't see how that's not something other species than humanoids would have. :/

 

[Snorro Soliman]

From the wiki. I don't know what they actually are. It's an interesting conversation, but PDS Green can't exactly have Orks, because that may be an IP-breach. I don't know. But they can have orcs, as that's been used by DnD, Blizzard (Warcraft), Tolkien, many fantasy books I've read, etc. And orcs are generally physically stronger than a human. Oh, and some even can see much better in the dark.

I don't really consider our countries very stable. Protests, crime, literal multiple parties disagreeing on what color tie the person in charge is wearing. Though this is a sci-fi futuristic government. So, who knows, I could be practicing presentism. In a little less than a hundred years we could end our trivial squabbles. But I still don't see how that's not something other species than humanoids would have. :/

Well, butter my biscuit. Your Ordo Xenos is bigger then mine..I stand corrected....

I suggesr that, compared to the other oids, humanoid governments might be inherently more stable...think herd mentality or, for a spicier reference, lobsterlike hierarchies with roots deep in the unique genes that make humanoids, well, humanoids. Perhaps humanoids naturally organize into complex cooperative hierarchies better, as they are are a naturally sentient, tool using and herd oriented species?

 

[Iosue Yu]

On the argument about needing the same bonus relations in additional to just humanoids on other species classes.

I disagree and my sole reason is this:

Humanoids are based on 1 species - the humans, and they only differ from Cultures in most SF works. Their extra pigments are just recolours. Many SF works like to say "Hey they are as human as us. But those bad guys who are humans doing bad things are more alien than those aliens." And it is a recurrent theme. We shouldn't ignore the thick literature of this theme and just head towards Tokien's style of Fantasy.

But Mammalians, Reptilians... they are based on a Class. Plantoids, Fungoids, they are based on a Kingdom.

Revising the biology we have established, the taxonomic ranking goes:

1. Life
2. Domain
3. Kingdom
4. Phylum
5. Class
6. Order
7. Family
8. Genus
9. Species

Lithoids are based on a difference in the "Life" rank (or perhaps Domain). The Plantoids and Fungoids are based on difference in the Kingdom rank. Mammalians, Reptilians, Avians, they are based on the Class rank.

Only Humanoids are based on 1 single Species: Humans.

I am sure a biologist can explain better but the argument simply doesn't stand for Plantoids, Fungoids, Mammalians and so on. They are too diverse. Another easier way of imagining is that... if fellow Humanoids eat each other, you consider it similar to canibalism. If plantoids eat each other... you perceive it as somewhat normal, except plants don't eat but they use Photosynthesis. If Mammalians eat other Mammalians, it's also normal because that's how it has been, like cats eating rats, so big cats eat big rats.