• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Hey everyone! Today we’ll continue on the native americans that we talked about last week. Last week we covered the migratory mechanics and how they will change. Of course though several nations in North America won’t be migratory and the ones who are can settle down.

I covered a bit that government reforms will be how native americans reform between their different stages. In total there will be 5 categories, which might not sound like a lot but natives will gain at start reform progress quite slowly and the point is for them to reach the end quite quickly by building up. So let’s cover the different government reforms that will be available.

1600171031234.png


The first two categories of government reforms have some modifiers to them, however there are some unusual ones here. In the first tier under the Chiefdom reform you have the Tribal Development Growth modifier. This modifier increases how much of tribal development you gain each month, regardless if you are migratory or settled. We’ll get to how that’s used for settled tribes. The other interesting modifier is the Oral Tradition reform in the second tier which gives you more reform progress growth, a quite helpful one if you intend to go all the way down to the last reforms.

After those two levels of reforms you will be presented with the option to settle down (if you are migratory). This will enable you to take direct control of the tribal land to grow in and build up your tribe.

1600171502868.png


Once settled you get the option to modernize through a European sponsor. Just like before you will adopt the sponsor's government type and it will make you adopt the institutions that the Europeans have. However if you don’t want to do that you have another option. If you wait just another level of reform you can pick what you want yourself.

1600171801922.png


Now if you have somehow stayed migratory the entire way to the end here, you get a special choice to become nomads of the great plains, essentially adopting the lifestyle of the Commanche after European contact.

1600171862984.png


Here’s a list of all the reforms. Keep in mind things are not final and values given here might change!

Base Reform
  • 0.1 Monthly Reform Progress Growth
  • -25% Land Maintenance Modifier
  • -1 Diplomatic Upkeep
  • -50% Institution Spread
Tier 1
  • Chiefdom Reform: 0.05 Tribal Development Growth
  • Federation Reform: 20% Manpower Modifier
  • Clan Council Reform: -33% Stability Cost modifier
Tier 2
  • Martial Tradition Reform: 10% Infantry Combat Ability
  • Oral Tradition Reform: 10% Reform Progress Growth
Tier 3
  • War Band Reform: 15% Land Forcelimit
  • Settle Down Reform: Stops being migratory
Tier 4
  • Codified Power Reform: -2 National Unrest
  • Trading with Foreigners Reform: Will reform off a European
Tier 5
  • Become Monarchy
  • Become Republic
  • Become Theocracy
  • Become Horde


Next up I want to cover buildings. You can build these already as migratory and they’ll move with you as you migrate, but their main use will be by settled tribes that will have more buildings to build. Mainly it’s the old buildings redone and rebalanced a bit but you’ll see some interesting effects to some of these, letting you build up your reform progress gain and tribal development gain as well. Just as with reforms these values are very much work in progress.

Unique Buildings - 200 ducats
  • Fortified House: 10 Land Forcelimit
  • Cermonial Pit: -50% Advisor Cost & +0.2 Reform Progress
  • Sweat Lodge: 1 Diplomatic Reputation
Expensive Buildings - 200 Ducats
  • Palisade: 1 Fort Level
  • Irrigation: 0.05 Tribal Development Growth
Normal Buildings - 100 Ducats
  • Earthwork: 25% Defensiveness
  • Storehouse: 50% Production Efficiency
  • Longhouse: 0.1 Reform Progress Gain
  • Great Trail: 50% Manpower Modifier
  • Three Sisters Field: 50% Trade Goods modifier


Now you’ve seen how you become a settled tribe, so let’s talk about what you do once you’ve become one. As settled you no longer get tribal development from being migratory, i.e you no longer cause devastation and passively gain tribal development. You instead need to build irrigation in provinces held directly by you to grow your tribe. Though you don’t migrate anymore, this development still resides in your capital.

1600172454837.png


That is until you decide to settle it into one of the provinces that is considered your tribal land. This will make the land directly owned by you and up to 10 developments will be moved there. This action costs 50 diplomatic monarch points. You can also decide to settle some development into an already settled province if you so want to, same mechanics apply.

1600172708069.png


Once a province is settled the Europeans can’t just simply colonise it anymore as they could with tribal land and the only way for you to lose control of that now is through a war.

It’s through settling your tribal land, subjugating other tribes while warding off the Europeans that you will grow your nation. All the while dealing with this you invest your resources to develop these provinces so that you can eventually reform and create a nation in the image you want.



I hope you enjoyed the dev diary today. Next one we’ll be covering new federation mechanics & the setup of North America. Cya then!
 
Now if you have somehow stayed migratory the entire way to the end here, you get a special choice to become nomads of the great plains, essentially adopting the lifestyle of the Commanche after European contact.
So do you remain able to migrate after this? The entire point of nomadic lifestyle on the plains/steppes is 1) you move around an area of influence without directly holding it all at the same time, kinda like your explanation for migration dejure land in the previous dev diary 2) hunting instead of farming means you have to keep cycling to let the fauna of each area repopulate.

Or is the highly mobile steppe horde in the midwest going to be locked into very slowly colonising neighbouring provinces to the south/east until they can border a European to conquer?
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
I hope the Siberian tribes can get some basic form of this interface. I know they're barely played, but they can't even see when they can migrate because that interface is inaccessible until the cooldown wears off and they get a notification that they can migrate. They don't need all the mechanics - just access to the interface to see the cooldown somewhere.
 
  • 11Like
  • 3
Reactions:
Check if they cored everything - in my observations, they fail to core all the provinces due to some shitty rebels sitting on one fort indefinitely. You need 0 OE to pass Mayan reform - this was a huge reason for several big tags in my games never actually passing reforms. After helping them with rebels - it started rolling

And for Inti - they pass reforms all the time, but fail to defend against pretenders. And this is actually 'difficult' for AI - it doesn't quite understand how to deal with this kind of rebels at this magnitude (it's like three stacks?). Same here (observed both with Inca and RNW) - if you will help them with rebels, they will rather quickly pass reforms and finally reform government.

Nahuatl obviously can't even possibly pass a reform, since managing doom is beyond AI's capabilities

Huh, this is weird. They were the second regional power in Mesoamerica (the other being myself), I never really saw any rebels around. Maybe they forgot to core the provinces?
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Now we are in mid September and instead of actually addressing the myriad amounts of issues that were reported, posted and literally thrown at Pdox
Paradox basically never discuss bug fixes before they hit live (or opt-in public beta), and especially not in dev diaries.
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I hope the Siberian tribes can get some basic form of this interface. I know they're barely played, but they can't even see when they can migrate because that interface is inaccessible until the cooldown wears off and they get a notification that they can migrate. They don't need all the mechanics - just access to the interface to see the cooldown somewhere.
Yep, actually one of my favorite runs to do is starting as one of them, becoming a Steppe horde, and eventually becoming Emperor of China, there’s also a bit of a roleplay element there
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
> Will reform off a European

So if an Asian [Or even an African such as Morocco/Mali] arrives in America; tribes can no longer reform off them?
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
This is shaping up to be a really good patch. I wasn't a huge fan of Emperor pre or post launch, but I did really like 1.29 and it looks like 1.31 will be even better. It would be really nice if even a single pure horse merc stack were available of nearly any size. I'll take 4, or 40, just anything. I like playing with horses.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
> Will reform off a European

So if an Asian [Or even an African such as Morocco/Mali] arrives in America; tribes can no longer reform off them?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a non-European AI colonizing, the only non-Christians I’ve seen picking exploration and expansion are Ottos and Granada/Andalusia if they survive, but both of those are European
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a non-European AI colonizing, the only non-Christians I’ve seen picking exploration and expansion are Ottos and Granada/Andalusia if they survive, but both of those are European
The Mamluks and Japan colonise pretty frequently, and I've occasionally seen some unlikely candidates like Malindi, Ming and even one of the Filipino minors colonising too.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I considered withholding my question until next week but i'd thought id ask anyway.

Would you be able to claim adjacent coastal tiles with tribal territory or is it definitely still required to have a strait/land connection to set up to migrate there? So a Caribbean tribal state can leap on & off the tip of the Orinco Delta into the Bahamas Island Chain and work their way across as they see fit.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
I always thank for your hard works, for better EU4!


By the way, I have a suggestion about 'Hegemony' added by Emperor DLC.

Naval Hegemon... Why does it require 'the number of heavy ships'?
I think 'total amount of naval cannons' is better, more equitable indicator to show the total naval power of country.


In addition, here are more suggestions to make naval units in EU4 be more useful, meaningful.
I hope you like my suggestions, and make navies much better in next patch.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Just catching up on your dev diary, I am beyond thrilled with the choice and thrust of reworking North America. Everything in this looks pretty great to me, but I am so concerned over the migration mechanic mentioned last week. Please change the devastation to something more historically accurate, and culturally appropriate. One alternative is having certain provinces get a herd/fish run bonus that encourages players to migrate, before the bonus moves to a different province. I'm sure you could come up with something even better.

Even just implying that tribes devastated the land/depleted it of resources is not only false, it is disrespectful. There is a huge real issue, today, in North America with misinformation and lack of education on the tribes. Many people don't even know that tribes exist today! There are ongoing battles over fishing rights and stewardship of native lands. I bring this up because it is not unrelated. Your devastation mechanic directly plays into the common narrative that natives didn't know how to manage their land and needed Europeans to teach them. We both know that is false, but it is a hurtful falsehood that continues to harm natives and worsen native land conflicts to this day.

A cursory look into the ongoing legal battles, will show you that native stewardship of land is a very touchy subject, and that it directly ties into the more physical harm suffered by natives such as un-investigated kidnappings, murders, and hate crimes. I know this is heavy and it's just a game, but given it's historical and educational nature, you have a responsibility to not perpetuate hateful stigmas that are false. I don't like being that guy. I don't mean to bum you out. I am so very happy you are giving more love to North America and wish you the very best. Please continue! But I am confident that anyone who is Native/lived or worked in Native communities, and experienced direct racism and hate crimes that are a result of false historical narratives could tell you that the devastation mechanic is Bad. Please re-think it.
 
  • 7
  • 6
Reactions:
Just catching up on your dev diary, I am beyond thrilled with the choice and thrust of reworking North America. Everything in this looks pretty great to me, but I am so concerned over the migration mechanic mentioned last week. Please change the devastation to something more historically accurate, and culturally appropriate. One alternative is having certain provinces get a herd/fish run bonus that encourages players to migrate, before the bonus moves to a different province. I'm sure you could come up with something even better.

Even just implying that tribes devastated the land/depleted it of resources is not only false, it is disrespectful. There is a huge real issue, today, in North America with misinformation and lack of education on the tribes. Many people don't even know that tribes exist today! There are ongoing battles over fishing rights and stewardship of native lands. I bring this up because it is not unrelated. Your devastation mechanic directly plays into the common narrative that natives didn't know how to manage their land and needed Europeans to teach them. We both know that is false, but it is a hurtful falsehood that continues to harm natives and worsen native land conflicts to this day.

A cursory look into the ongoing legal battles, will show you that native stewardship of land is a very touchy subject, and that it directly ties into the more physical harm suffered by natives such as un-investigated kidnappings, murders, and hate crimes. I know this is heavy and it's just a game, but given it's historical and educational nature, you have a responsibility to not perpetuate hateful stigmas that are false. I don't like being that guy. I don't mean to bum you out. I am so very happy you are giving more love to North America and wish you the very best. Please continue! But I am confident that anyone who is Native/lived or worked in Native communities, and experienced direct racism and hate crimes that are a result of false historical narratives could tell you that the devastation mechanic is Bad. Please re-think it.
Dude it’s just a video game… you could probably point out a thousand things that would be offensive to communities around the world in EU4
 
  • 4
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Dude it’s just a video game… you could probably point out a thousand things that would be offensive to communities around the world in EU4

That's not a good reason to not change it to something inoffensive before it goes into effect. It could be an incredibly easy superficial tweak that wouldn't change the end result of incentivizing migration.

Also the vast majority of anything offensive in eu4 has to do with lack of representation of minority cultures. Which at the end of the day you can't be too upset with because the game is literally named europa. Of course it's going to be euro centric. That's not the problem. I can't name a single other mechanic thats historically made up while also disparaging a particular culture.

I know it's just a game. But like I said above, these are current issues that affect people's lives. Games, movies, and popular media all play a vital part in shaping societies views, and the view that Natives mismanage their land is a bad one. There's enough propaganda out there, no need to add to it.
 
  • 6
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Dude it’s just a video game… you could probably point out a thousand things that would be offensive to communities around the world in EU4
Given the number of knots I've seen this forum twist itself in over Byzantium or this or that random province in Spain, the "get over it, it's a game" line of reasoning has got some awfully wobbly legs.
 
  • 4
  • 3
  • 2Like
  • 2Haha
Reactions:
That's not a good reason to not change it to something inoffensive before it goes into effect. It could be an incredibly easy superficial tweak that wouldn't change the end result of incentivizing migration.

Also the vast majority of anything offensive in eu4 has to do with lack of representation of minority cultures. Which at the end of the day you can't be too upset with because the game is literally named europa. Of course it's going to be euro centric. That's not the problem. I can't name a single other mechanic thats historically made up while also disparaging a particular culture.

I know it's just a game. But like I said above, these are current issues that affect people's lives. Games, movies, and popular media all play a vital part in shaping societies views, and the view that Natives mismanage their land is a bad one. There's enough propaganda out there, no need to add to it.
I agree with your principle, but would like to point out it would most likely not be an easy superficial tweak, since right now they're just using Devastation and they'd have to replace it with something completely different.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions: