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Romanix90

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1. Rename ''Byzantium'' into ''Rome''. The reason is simple, it's historicaly accurate. The nation under the name ''Byzantium'' never existed. More on that you can find in wiki here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieronymus_Wolf . So is there any other argument to back this, well there is one. After the fall of WRE, ERE was all that remained. During the time of emperor Justinian and reconquest of Italy, he abolished the title of WRE so no one could claim that title. More over everyone from West to East refered to that state as being Roman. Roman state in the east addopted Greek language as official and Christianity as state religion. Nevertheless it was a Roman state, governed by Roman laws and emperor it had its own Senate in Constantinople.

2. Rename their National ideas into ''Roman'' so it can corespond to suggested changes. Note that this is simply a suggestion where i believe that will make the game more interesting.

3. Rename their cultural union from ''Byzantine'' into ''Hellenic''. Reason is based upon language that Romans and Greeks used, which is Greek. More over Romans and Greeks mixed them selves. So we had situation where Greeks addopted Roman tradition and so on and vice versa. Other reason is that in the case that Rome falls to Ottomans, which usualy happens, Greece can be formed by desicion or rebel revolt etc. So it would be quite reasonable to do this.

4. The desicion to ''Restore the Roman empire'' should be availeable to small number of nations. My suggestions are Theodoro, as it was once a Roman territory and vasal state and Trebizond.

5. The desicion to ''Restore the Pentarchy'' should be exclusive Roman as it was originally established by emperor Justinian if i'm not mistaken, so it's natural that this desicion be availeable only to them.

6. Change Basileus achievment. My suggestion is that this achievment be availeable to Rome, Theodoro and Trebizond if player manage to restore the borders of the Roman empire under emperor Justinian such is here : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Justinian555AD.png . In the case of Trebizond and Theodoro only if they restore the Roman empire.

7. Instead of usual Patriarchal slider which is shared by Orthodox countries why not make for Rome Unionist vs Antiunionist. The idea here is that this slider would grant certain effects. For example if player go full unionist it would have tech reduction cost and diplomatic relations,perhaps a chance to convert to Catholicism while Antiunionist whould grant player missionary maintanence reduction and missionary strengh.

8. More prestigius events and triumphant desicions. For example Alexandria reclaimed or Triumph for Egypt.

9. Change Trebizond to be elective monarchy since it was ever since it break up from Rome.

10. Give smaller mission trees for Trebizond and Theodoro that would encourage them to go for and ''Restore the Roman empire''. Its not like that they have a chance to survive but again i think it would be fun for them to have some small mission content.

11. Allow the Roman player to restore some lost cultures if they manage to get provinces there. My suggestion is that for example Roman culture be restored if player manage to take province in Italy or Coptic in the case of Egypt. Both Roman and Coptic would belong to Hellenic cultural group. Now again the reason for Romans to belong to Hellenic culture is because they mixed them selves with Greeks. Revival of Roman or Coptic should be done via Events where, for example, if playe gets Rome or Alexandria event would pop up and it would be to the player to spread those cultures to their respective regions.

12. Give Greece mission tree as well. After some time if all pretenders are gone and Roman state wasn't reformed all that remains is Greece. Now my suggestion regarding Greek missions is that it should focus on reclaimin Anatolia from Trebizond to Antioch. I think it would be fun for them to have some unique missions.

13. Requirements to restore the Roman empire should be lowerd by cities/provinces player need to control. my suggestion is Constantinople, Edirne, Thesalloniki, Athens, Nikomedia, Antioch and Trebizond. If you manage to control these you would be able to enact that desicion.

Edit :

14. Allow players to rename Areas as long as they control entire Area. For example when ever i play as ''Byzantium'' i like to challange faith and try to get back Anatolia. Now what becomes wierd is to see Greek and Latin names for cities/provinces while at the same time Turkish and Arabic names for Areas.

So what do you think? What are your suggestions?
 
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10. Give smaller mission trees for Trebizond and Theodoro that would encourage them to go for and ''Restore the Roman empire''. Its not like that they have a chance to survive but again i think it would be fun for them to have some small mission content.
ngl it would be interesting for Trebizond to have missions that allow them to press their claims on the Byzantine Empire and then form it, as the Kommenoi Dynasty considered themselves the rightful rulers of Byzantium/Rome in exile.
 
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Romanix90

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ngl it would be interesting for Trebizond to have missions that allow them to press their claims on the Byzantine Empire and then form it, as the Kommenoi Dynasty considered themselves the rightful rulers of Byzantium/Rome in exile.
Yes it would that is why i'm suggesting them along with Theodoro to have unique missions to confirm that claim. There were other claimants as well Albanian leader Skenderbeg one time usurped title of Roman emperor, Serbian czar Dusan also wanted to take Constaninople. He all ready proclaimed himself czar of Serbs, Greeks (Romans) and Albanians, but that was before Ottoman Turks came in.
 
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1. Rename ''Byzantium'' into ''Rome''. The reason is simple, it's historicaly accurate. The nation under the name ''Byzantium'' never existed. More on that you can find in wiki here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieronymus_Wolf . So is there any other argument to back this, well there is one. After the fall of WRE, ERE was all that remained. During the time of emperor Justinian and reconquest of Italy, he abolished the title of WRE so no one could claim that title. More over everyone from West to East refered to that state as being Roman. Roman state in the east addopted Greek language as official and Christianity as state religion. Nevertheless it was a Roman state, governed by Roman laws and emperor it had its own Senate in Constantinople.
This has been discussed to death on this forums. For gameplay and code reasons, this isn't going to happen, regardless of how historical it would be. The short reasoning is that tag for "Rome" already exsists under ROM, which is for a reformed Roman Empire; while Romania has the RMN tag. You would have to find a way to have this nation's name be differentional from Romania and Rome (Empire). As for the Senate, that was all but ceramonial by 1444, yes it still exsisted but asserted not authority, and was reduced to advisor role.
2. Rename their National ideas into ''Roman'' so it can corespond to suggested changes. Note that this is simply a suggestion where i believe that will make the game more interesting.
See above. That being said, I think that their adjective could changed to Rhomanian Ideas.

3. Rename their cultural union from ''Byzantine'' into ''Hellenic''. Reason is based upon language that Romans and Greeks used, which is Greek. More over Romans and Greeks mixed them selves. So we had situation where Greeks addopted Roman tradition and so on and vice versa. Other reason is that in the case that Rome falls to Ottomans, which usualy happens, Greece can be formed by desicion or rebel revolt etc. So it would be quite reasonable to do this.
Agreed. However, this is because the group is centered around the Greek language, which the adjective for it is Hellenic/Hellene.

4. The desicion to ''Restore the Roman empire'' should be availeable to small number of nations. My suggestions are Theodoro, as it was once a Roman territory and vasal state and Trebizond.
I would actually rename the Decision "Embrace Roman Legacy" and have it be available for BYZ, TRE, FEO, while the West gets a decison if they completely control Rome and one of the two regions of France, Italy, or Balkans called "Claim Roman Mantle" which reforms them into the Roman Empire.

5. The desicion to ''Restore the Pentarchy'' should be exclusive Roman as it was originally established by emperor Justinian if i'm not mistaken, so it's natural that this desicion be availeable only to them.
Yes, it was established by Justinian. However, it should be there for all Orthodox, as its possible that the Rus would want to reinvigorate the Church by reestablishing the old hierarchy.

6. Change Basileus achievment. My suggestion is that this achievment be availeable to Rome, Theodoro and Trebizond if player manage to restore the borders of the Roman empire under emperor Justinian such is here : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Justinian555AD.png . In the case of Trebizond and Theodoro only if they restore the Roman empire.
Makes it harder. Not much to comment on.
7. Instead of usual Patriarchal slider which is shared by Orthodox countries why not make for Rome Unionist vs Antiunionist. The idea here is that this slider would grant certain effects. For example if player go full unionist it would have tech reduction cost and diplomatic relations,perhaps a chance to convert to Catholicism while Antiunionist whould grant player missionary maintanence reduction and missionary strengh.
I'm currently working on an Improved Byzantine Missions. I would keep the Patriarchal Slider, but make the Unionist V. Orthodox conflict be a disaster. Many of the non-Constantinople clergy and nobility disagreed with the decision of Ioannes and Konstantinos at Florence.
8. More prestigius events and triumphant desicions. For example Alexandria reclaimed or Triumph for Egypt.
Agreed. I would add Triumphs for Syria, Judea, Aegyptus, and Hispania. Also some "Fantasy" triumphs for solidifying control over Mesopatamia and Cisapline Gaul.

9. Change Trebizond to be elective monarchy since it was ever since it break up from Rome.
Agreed. Although considering that the Kommenoi always won, I don't really see the point. In many ways I would give this to Byzantium, and have Trebizond be a Feudal Monarchy.

10. Give smaller mission trees for Trebizond and Theodoro that would encourage them to go for and ''Restore the Roman empire''. Its not like that they have a chance to survive but again i think it would be fun for them to have some small mission content.
I would have a Trebizond mission focusing on them overcoming the Turks and retaking the throne. From the Byzantine missions should guide toward Roman restoration. While Theodoro's missions should focus on their relationship with Tatars and Rus, and carving out a Kingdom for themselves in the Crimea and Southern Ruthenia, with finishers focusing on pushing towards Greece and reclaiming the mantle.

11. Allow the Roman player to restore some lost cultures if they manage to get provinces there. My suggestion is that for example Roman culture be restored if player manage to take province in Italy or Coptic in the case of Egypt. Both Roman and Coptic would belong to Hellenic cultural group. Now again the reason for Romans to belong to Hellenic culture is because they mixed them selves with Greeks. Revival of Roman or Coptic should be done via Events where, for example, if playe gets Rome or Alexandria event would pop up and it would be to the player to spread those cultures to their respective regions.
In my suggestion, I would have "Coptic" although I renamed it Khemitc, so it wouldn't confuse the player. As for Roman culture, its silly. Roman Latin by the of the game, was deceased the only speakers of "Latin" would have been the Latin Rite Church. That being said, I would have a decision to reembrace their Latin root, allowing them to Latinize their provinces name (which is already done for the Roman culture). Adding Roman culture is bit out there, but as long as the way to it is... semi-plausible, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

12. Give Greece mission tree as well. After some time if all pretenders are gone and Roman state wasn't reformed all that remains is Greece. Now my suggestion regarding Greek missions is that it should focus on reclaimin Anatolia from Trebizond to Antioch. I think it would be fun for them to have some unique missions.
Yes! I would also give them the Purple Phoenix Units and add the Imperator Units to Byzantium via the Purple Phoenix pack.

13. Requirements to restore the Roman empire should be lowerd by cities/provinces player need to control. my suggestion is Constantinople, Edirne, Thesalloniki, Athens, Nikomedia, Antioch and Trebizond. If you manage to control these you would be able to enact that desicion.
I would also add if you control all of the Anatolia, Balkans, and Italy as well. This way the the Ottomans are guaranteed to be dead.

14. Allow players to rename Areas as long as they control entire Area. For example when ever i play as ''Byzantium'' i like to challange faith and try to get back Anatolia. Now what becomes wierd is to see Greek and Latin names for cities/provinces while at the same time Turkish and Arabic names for Areas.
Agreed. You could even tie this into the Theme System.
 
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Romanix90

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This has been discussed to death on this forums. For gameplay and code reasons, this isn't going to happen, regardless of how historical it would be. The short reasoning is that tag for "Rome" already exsists under ROM, which is for a reformed Roman Empire; while Romania has the RMN tag. You would have to find a way to have this nation's name be differentional from Romania and Rome (Empire). As for the Senate, that was all but ceramonial by 1444, yes it still exsisted but asserted not authority, and was reduced to advisor role.


See above. That being said, I think that their adjective could changed to Rhomanian Ideas.



Agreed. However, this is because the group is centered around the Greek language, which the adjective for it is Hellenic/Hellene.



I would actually rename the Decision "Embrace Roman Legacy" and have it be available for BYZ, TRE, FEO, while the West gets a decison if they completely control Rome and one of the two regions of France, Italy, or Balkans called "Claim Roman Mantle" which reforms them into the Roman Empire.



Yes, it was established by Justinian. However, it should be there for all Orthodox, as its possible that the Rus would want to reinvigorate the Church by reestablishing the old hierarchy.



Makes it harder. Not much to comment on.


I'm currently working on an Improved Byzantine Missions. I would keep the Patriarchal Slider, but make the Unionist V. Orthodox conflict be a disaster. Many of the non-Constantinople clergy and nobility disagreed with the decision of Ioannes and Konstantinos at Florence.


Agreed. I would add Triumphs for Syria, Judea, Aegyptus, and Hispania. Also some "Fantasy" triumphs for solidifying control over Mesopatamia and Cisapline Gaul.



Agreed. Although considering that the Kommenoi always won, I don't really see the point. In many ways I would give this to Byzantium, and have Trebizond be a Feudal Monarchy.



I would have a Trebizond mission focusing on them overcoming the Turks and retaking the throne. From the Byzantine missions should guide toward Roman restoration. While Theodoro's missions should focus on their relationship with Tatars and Rus, and carving out a Kingdom for themselves in the Crimea and Southern Ruthenia, with finishers focusing on pushing towards Greece and reclaiming the mantle.



In my suggestion, I would have "Coptic" although I renamed it Khemitc, so it wouldn't confuse the player. As for Roman culture, its silly. Roman Latin by the of the game, was deceased the only speakers of "Latin" would have been the Latin Rite Church. That being said, I would have a decision to reembrace their Latin root, allowing them to Latinize their provinces name (which is already done for the Roman culture). Adding Roman culture is bit out there, but as long as the way to it is... semi-plausible, I wouldn't have a problem with it.



Yes! I would also give them the Purple Phoenix Units and add the Imperator Units to Byzantium via the Purple Phoenix pack.



I would also add if you control all of the Anatolia, Balkans, and Italy as well. This way the the Ottomans are guaranteed to be dead.



Agreed. You could even tie this into the Theme System.
This has been discussed to death on this forums. For gameplay and code reasons, this isn't going to happen, regardless of how historical it would be. The short reasoning is that tag for "Rome" already exsists under ROM, which is for a reformed Roman Empire; while Romania has the RMN tag. You would have to find a way to have this nation's name be differentional from Romania and Rome (Empire). As for the Senate, that was all but ceramonial by 1444, yes it still exsisted but asserted not authority, and was reduced to advisor role.
So simply rename Byzantium into Rome. Romania can't be formed as long as Byzantium/Rome exist and since that's the case, even if Byzantium/Rome survives, Romania won't be formed. Just kick of Byzantium and BYZ tag, use Rome and ROM tag and you have historicaly accurate game. And if you aske yourself : Ok but what about HRE? No prob. When ever i played against AI, i never saw AI to form centralized HRE state. Then you might ask : What if revolutionaries take power? Again no prob. There is no need for ''Revolutionary Roman state or something'' simply name it ''Roman republic'', since history of Romans begins with republic.

See above. That being said, I think that their adjective could changed to Rhomanian Ideas.
Either renaming their ideas into Roman or addopting all ready existing Roman ideas or perhaps renaming and changing it little.

I would actually rename the Decision "Embrace Roman Legacy" and have it be available for BYZ, TRE, FEO, while the West gets a decison if they completely control Rome and one of the two regions of France, Italy, or Balkans called "Claim Roman Mantle" which reforms them into the Roman Empire.
For BYZ/Rome it makes no sense to restore Roman empire or claim Roman legacy since they considered themselves Romans. For Theodoro and Trebizond it might because they were either part of the Roman state in east or their vasal. As for France or Italy, i don't see how they can claim title of Rome.

Yes, it was established by Justinian. However, it should be there for all Orthodox, as its possible that the Rus would want to reinvigorate the Church by reestablishing the old hierarchy.
Russia all ready have goal to establish Russian patriachate, making desicion ''Restore Pentarchy'' unique to Rome would make perfect and historical sense since it was established by well Roman not Russian. No offense.

I'm currently working on an Improved Byzantine Missions. I would keep the Patriarchal Slider, but make the Unionist V. Orthodox conflict be a disaster. Many of the non-Constantinople clergy and nobility disagreed with the decision of Ioannes and Konstantinos at Florence.
Well the idea was to make Rome unique Orthodox nation, different then others. Unionist vs Antiunionist slider made perfect sense since in history Rome did try to aproach Western Catholic Church, regardless if some others oposed it.

Agreed. Although considering that the Kommenoi always won, I don't really see the point. In many ways I would give this to Byzantium, and have Trebizond be a Feudal Monarchy.
Well its historical thing. Whether we like it or not they were elective monarchy and since this game claims to be historical it would make perfect sense to do.

I would have a Trebizond mission focusing on them overcoming the Turks and retaking the throne. From the Byzantine missions should guide toward Roman restoration. While Theodoro's missions should focus on their relationship with Tatars and Rus, and carving out a Kingdom for themselves in the Crimea and Southern Ruthenia, with finishers focusing on pushing towards Greece and reclaiming the mantle.
I'm agreeing on the part where Trebizond would have missions to restore Roman empire as for ''BYZ''/Rome, how can state restore itself? It's like if we divide USA into North and South again and lets say North have fallen by some unknown force and South have to restore USA. South all ready is USA. As for Theodoro it's not bad i could agree with that.

In my suggestion, I would have "Coptic" although I renamed it Khemitc, so it wouldn't confuse the player. As for Roman culture, its silly. Roman Latin by the of the game, was deceased the only speakers of "Latin" would have been the Latin Rite Church. That being said, I would have a decision to reembrace their Latin root, allowing them to Latinize their provinces name (which is already done for the Roman culture). Adding Roman culture is bit out there, but as long as the way to it is... semi-plausible, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Hey that could also work, to rename Coptic into Khemitic. Why is silly for Roman culture to belong to Hellenic? Ever since the fall of WRE many Romans fled eastwards and mixed themselves with Greeks. More over every Greek speaker that used Greek language was authomatically considered Roman, regardles of ethic background in those times. Even after the fall of Constantinople to the Turks Greek speakers considered themselves either Romans or Greeks and they considered thet Greek was their national language. Emperor Justinian tried to revive Latin language in the east but simply Greek all ready had its roots there. And if we go back to Pagan Rome, all high ranking Roman learned Greek. Greek was language of prestige and one of the official languages. So putting Roman culture into Hellenic would make sense.

I would also add if you control all of the Anatolia, Balkans, and Italy as well. This way the the Ottomans are guaranteed to be dead.
Idk about Italy though, but in the case of Anatolia and Balkans i agree.
 

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Byzantium won't be renamed to Rome because most people know and identify that country as the Byzantine Empire. I know that they called themselves the roman empire and that Byzantium is an anachronism, but that's how most players know them as. Every historical book, game, and youtube video refers to them as such. It's much easier to get attached to something if you can keep it's name straight in your head.
 
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Byzantium won't be renamed to Rome because most people know and identify that country as the Byzantine Empire. I know that they called themselves the roman empire and that Byzantium is an anachronism, but that's how most players know them as. Every historical book, game, and youtube video refers to them as such. It's much easier to get attached to something if you can keep it's name straight in your head.
Can you call, let's say, Yugoslavia - Serbia or Greater Serbia? No you can't. You use the official name. If you want to use the name of the state that existed from 1918 - 2006 you would use Yugoslavia. The same is for Roman empire. I, for example, use termine ''Medieval'', ''Crhistian'' or Roman empire of ''Greek language''. As for ''Byzantium'' i all ready explained who invented that name and who fabricated history. I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
 
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Can you call, let's say, Yugoslavia - Serbia or Greater Serbia? No you can't. You use the official name. If you want to use the name of the state that existed from 1918 - 2006 you would use Yugoslavia. The same is for Roman empire. I, for example, use termine ''Medieval'', ''Crhistian'' or Roman empire of ''Greek language''. As for ''Byzantium'' i all ready explained who invented that name and who fabricated history. I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
the existence of the name “Byzantium” isn’t a fabrication of history but was made for ease of use
 

Eruth

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Can you call, let's say, Yugoslavia - Serbia or Greater Serbia? No you can't. You use the official name. If you want to use the name of the state that existed from 1918 - 2006 you would use Yugoslavia. The same is for Roman empire. I, for example, use termine ''Medieval'', ''Crhistian'' or Roman empire of ''Greek language''. As for ''Byzantium'' i all ready explained who invented that name and who fabricated history. I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
I fail to see how Yugoslavia relates to Byzantium. Everyone calls Yugoslavia Yugoslavia; no one knows it as greater Serbia. However, almost everyone knows the ERE as Byzantium/Byzantine Empire. If you want to get a good example, you need to find a place whose common English name is different from the official name it knows itself by. For example, say, Taiwan. It's technically the Republic of China, but everyone knows it as Taiwan.
 
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Romanix90

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I fail to see how Yugoslavia relates to Byzantium. Everyone calls Yugoslavia Yugoslavia; no one knows it as greater Serbia. However, almost everyone knows the ERE as Byzantium/Byzantine Empire. If you want to get a good example, you need to find a place whose common English name is different from the official name it knows itself by. For example, say, Taiwan. It's technically the Republic of China, but everyone knows it as Taiwan.
You are wright you call Yugoslavia - Yugoslavia. In that sense you call Rome - Rome which is English understandable. What's in common betwin Rome - Byzantium? I don't see resemblence or similiarity in the name. And Romans in that time all ready had official name for that state which is ''Roman''. It started with Roman republic it ended with Roman empire, not Byzantium. And reason why i brought Yugoslavia and Serbia into this, Serbia was main country that created Yugoslavia. So you don't call Yugoslavia - Serbia.
 
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Eruth

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You are wright you call Yugoslavia - Yugoslavia. In that sense you call Rome - Rome which is English understandable. What's in common betwin Rome - Byzantium? I don't see resemblence or similiarity in the name. And Romans in that time all ready had official name for that state which is ''Roman''. It started with Roman republic it ended with Roman empire, not Byzantium. And reason why i brought Yugoslavia and Serbia into this, Serbia was main country that created Yugoslavia. So you don't call Yugoslavia - Serbia.
You call it Yugoslavia because everyone calls it Yugoslavia; I have never heard it referred to as Greater Serbia, therefore, if you decided to call it Greater Serbia you would be inventing that name on the spot, more or less. However, we call Byzantium Byzantium because everyone calls it that. The only time I ever hear anyone refer to the late-medieval ERE as "Rome" is when they are specifically making the point that Byzantium was Roman. The Yugoslavian naming situation has nothing to do with the Byzantium naming situation; everyone, then and now, refers to Yugoslavia by that name but most people nowadays refer to Byzantium by that name.
Language evolves; words exist to serve meaning, not the other way around. The general consensus is to call the late medieval ERE the Byzantine Empire, so even if that's not the name the Byzantines would have called themselves it doesn't matter. They are all dead. Trivia and pedantism are not great ways to determine these kinds of things.
 
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Romanix90

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You call Yugoslavia because it was official name of that state. Serbia was the main state that created Yugoslavia and after civil war in the 90s many Croats and Muslims refered to Yugoslavia as Greater Serbia, not all of them but let's say 50/50. As for inventing, didn't Hieronymus Wolf invented name ''Byzantium''? If he didn't invent this name, if Roman emperors used this name before, or Roman citizens, then name me who of them refered the name of their state as Byzantium? Which Roman ruler formed nation Byznatium and which year this happend? You are wright Yugoslavia doesn't have anything with Rome so i will try to ask you in this way, can you call Confederate States of America - America? In my opinion you can but you have to be specific. The same is with Rome, do you refer to Roman republic, Pagan Roman empire or Christian Roman empire. You know when countr changes its official language and addopts new one it doesn't prevent it to be what it once was. Nope they're not dead you still have Greek speakers, some of them refer themselves to this day Roman. One acaunt that i came across was during Greek war of independence against Ottomans. Greek army managed to take small island Lesbos and curius boy came out to see Greek soldiers. The boy looked confused at begining and one Greek soldier aproached him. Both of them spoke in Greek. Soldier asked boy why is he confused and the boy answerd, i wanted to see how Greeks looks like. Soldier asked boy but aren't you Greek and boy replyed, no i am Roman. So you see Roman identity pretty much lives on and you have more cases like this. Other example is some times after the fall of Constantinople, where Greek speakers determined that Greeks and Romans have wright to use Greek language. You have more of this examples.
 

Romanix90

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You call it Yugoslavia because everyone calls it Yugoslavia; I have never heard it referred to as Greater Serbia, therefore, if you decided to call it Greater Serbia you would be inventing that name on the spot, more or less. However, we call Byzantium Byzantium because everyone calls it that. The only time I ever hear anyone refer to the late-medieval ERE as "Rome" is when they are specifically making the point that Byzantium was Roman. The Yugoslavian naming situation has nothing to do with the Byzantium naming situation; everyone, then and now, refers to Yugoslavia by that name but most people nowadays refer to Byzantium by that name.
Language evolves; words exist to serve meaning, not the other way around. The general consensus is to call the late medieval ERE the Byzantine Empire, so even if that's not the name the Byzantines would have called themselves it doesn't matter. They are all dead. Trivia and pedantism are not great ways to determine these kinds of things.
You can read the case i mentioned here https://georgezarkadakis.com/2015/11/22/no-im-a-roman/ . And appologies it wasn't Greek war of independence it was balkan war of 1912.
 

Eruth

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You call Yugoslavia because it was official name of that state. Serbia was the main state that created Yugoslavia and after civil war in the 90s many Croats and Muslims refered to Yugoslavia as Greater Serbia, not all of them but let's say 50/50. As for inventing, didn't Hieronymus Wolf invented name ''Byzantium''? If he didn't invent this name, if Roman emperors used this name before, or Roman citizens, then name me who of them refered the name of their state as Byzantium? Which Roman ruler formed nation Byznatium and which year this happend? You are wright Yugoslavia doesn't have anything with Rome so i will try to ask you in this way, can you call Confederate States of America - America? In my opinion you can but you have to be specific. The same is with Rome, do you refer to Roman republic, Pagan Roman empire or Christian Roman empire. You know when countr changes its official language and addopts new one it doesn't prevent it to be what it once was. Nope they're not dead you still have Greek speakers, some of them refer themselves to this day Roman. One acaunt that i came across was during Greek war of independence against Ottomans. Greek army managed to take small island Lesbos and curius boy came out to see Greek soldiers. The boy looked confused at begining and one Greek soldier aproached him. Both of them spoke in Greek. Soldier asked boy why is he confused and the boy answerd, i wanted to see how Greeks looks like. Soldier asked boy but aren't you Greek and boy replyed, no i am Roman. So you see Roman identity pretty much lives on and you have more cases like this. Other example is some times after the fall of Constantinople, where Greek speakers determined that Greeks and Romans have wright to use Greek language. You have more of this examples.
It was the official name of the state AND everyone calls it that. Comparing Yugoslavia's name to Byzantium's name is like comparing apples to oranges. I don't know how this is so hard to get into your head. EVERYONE CALLS BYZANTIUM BYZANTIUM. I literally never said that the Byzantines used it. I specifically said, multiple times, that I know they didn't. I know that Wolf invented it. Stop bringing it up because it is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
Okay, so maybe some Greeks calls themselves Romans. I actually did not know that. It does not appear to be a widespread thing, however, and modern Greece is not the same thing as Byzantium. Also, they speak Greek and we are discussing the English name of this place. It's the same way that we call Germany Germany but the Germans call it Deutschland. Different places have different names in different languages, and the English name for the late medieval ERE is Byzantium.
As for the CSA, again, no one just calls it "America" because that's commonly accepted as the name for the USA, and to call the CSA "America" would be confusing. Same way as referring to the ERE as "Rome" would be confusing since when people say "Rome" they mean the ancient/classical empire, not the late medieval one.
 

Romanix90

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It was the official name of the state AND everyone calls it that. Comparing Yugoslavia's name to Byzantium's name is like comparing apples to oranges. I don't know how this is so hard to get into your head. EVERYONE CALLS BYZANTIUM BYZANTIUM. I literally never said that the Byzantines used it. I specifically said, multiple times, that I know they didn't. I know that Wolf invented it. Stop bringing it up because it is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
Okay, so maybe some Greeks calls themselves Romans. I actually did not know that. It does not appear to be a widespread thing, however, and modern Greece is not the same thing as Byzantium. Also, they speak Greek and we are discussing the English name of this place. It's the same way that we call Germany Germany but the Germans call it Deutschland. Different places have different names in different languages, and the English name for the late medieval ERE is Byzantium.
As for the CSA, again, no one just calls it "America" because that's commonly accepted as the name for the USA, and to call the CSA "America" would be confusing. Same way as referring to the ERE as "Rome" would be confusing since when people say "Rome" they mean the ancient/classical empire, not the late medieval one.
No you call Byzantium - Byzantium, I CALL IT ROME - ROME. Yugoslavia was example but since you didn't get it first time i tried to use Confederate States of America as example and this didn't work as well since you don't understand what i am saying. What's so confusing in telling the truth. I used Yugoslavia as comparison or CSA, not that they have anything with Roman state. You call Germany - Germany in English yes in German its Deutschland cause Germans call it in their own language. In the case of Rome its Rome and Romans used name in Greek "Basilea Rhomaion", not Byzantium. In other words you all ready have English word to describe Rome, which is Rome. If you want to describe people you would say Romans. Its perhaps confusing to you but not to me, just specify to which Roman state you mean Roman republic, Pagan or Christian Roman empire. In fact Roman state is a state in continuity, it didn't change nor new state was formed over it. If you know that Wolf invented it why you use fake name for state and people that didn't exist. I bring it up to get to the point and i did it you admitted yourself. Look i can see endless debate here, just go up to the thread hit dislike if you want, cause just as you can't accept the name Rome so can't i accept name Byzantium. Let's just move along, cheers.
 
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No you call Byzantium - Byzantium, I CALL IT ROME - ROME. Yugoslavia was example but since you didn't get it first time i tried to use Confederate States of America as example and this didn't work as well since you don't understand what i am saying. What's so confusing in telling the truth. I used Yugoslavia as comparison or CSA, not that they have anything with Roman state. You call Germany - Germany in English yes in German its Deutschland cause Germans call it in their own language. In the case of Rome its Rome and Romans used name in Greek "Basilea Rhomaion", not Byzantium. In other words you all ready have English word to describe Rome, which is Rome. If you want to describe people you would say Romans. Its perhaps confusing to you but not to me, just specify to which Roman state you mean Roman republic, Pagan or Christian Roman empire. In fact Roman state is a state in continuity, it didn't change nor new state was formed over it. If you know that Wolf invented it why you use fake name for state and people that didn't exist. I bring it up to get to the point and i did it you admitted yourself. Look i can see endless debate here, just go up to the thread hit dislike if you want, cause just as you can't accept the name Rome so can't i accept name Byzantium. Let's just move along, cheers.
I will say it one last time: Every calls it Byzantium. That is it's English name. I do not giving a flying care what the residents of the late medieval ERE called themselves; everyone nowadays calls it Byzantium. Byzantium is exactly as 'fake' a term as Germany is; an outsider made it up, but that is the commonly accepted name for it. Ask 98% of English speakers who know anything about the topic and they will call the late medieval ERE the Byzantine Empire, not the Roman Empire. That is why EU4 calls it Byzantium; because EVERYONE does.
I am now unwatching this thread because damned if I will spend multiple days arguing about what to call the late medieval ERE on a game forum that no dev is going to read this far down. Not gonna dislike the OP though because the rest of your points were fine.
 
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