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Romanix90

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Now like the title says it would be cool to have a religius center for Orthodox nations like Constantinople or Moscow with effects diferent and playing into Orthodox faith. For example if Orthodox nation controls Constantinople it would get +1 Missionary and +1 Patriarchal Authority. The same would go with Moscow. After the fall of Constantinople it would be to Russia to lead Orthodox Christendom by gaining same effects. Also while at it Antioch would also be nice religius center exclusive to Catholics and Orthodox and Coptic nations. For example if Catholic or Coptic Controls Antioch they would get +1 Tolerance of true faith and +0,50 prestige, while for Orthodox instead of 0,50 prestige perhaps simply +1 PA. PA would be earned yearly for controling these centers of religion. What do you think ?

After i saw interest in this topic i decided to do 2nd and hopefuly last edit showing full CoR suggestion

For Orthodox :

Conquest of Constantinople

Prestige.png +0.5 Yearly prestige
Missionaries.png +1 Missionary
Patriarch authority.png+1 Yearly Patriarch Authority

Conquest of Moscow


Prestige.png +0.5 Yearly prestige
Missionaries.png +1 Missionary
Patriarch authority.png+1 Yearly Patriarch Authority

Those two are same because i didn't want to overpower Moscow over Constantinople

Conquest of Kiev

Missionaries.png -5 Missionary Strengh
Legitimacy.png+1 Yearly Legitimacy


Basic text would go that Kiev is important CoR and it would be very dificult to convert

Shared between Orthodox and Coptic :

Orthodox/Coptic control of Alexandria

Prestige.png +0.5 Yearly prestige
Missionaries.png +1 Missionary
Tolerance own.png +1 Tolerance of the true faith
Patriarch authority.png+1 Yearly Patriarch Authority

In the case of Alexandria it's debatable. Purely a suggestion. Also as for Orthodox they wouldn't get Tolerance own.png +1 Tolerance of the true faith

Shared between Catholic, Coptic and Orthodox :

Conquest of Antioch

Prestige.png +0.5 Yearly prestige
Missionaries.png +1 Missionary
Legitimacy.png+1 Yearly Legitimacy
Patriarch authority.png+1 Yearly Patriarch Authority


In the case of Orthodox they would not get Legitimacy.png+1 Yearly Legitimacy

For Catholic :

Catholic control of Carthage/Tunis

Papal influence.png +1 Yearly papal influence

Icon legitimacy monarchy.png+1 Yearly Legitimacy
Prestige.png +0.5 Yearly prestige

Now the reason why am i suggesting Tunis is it was once a major center of christianity under Latin Rite. Since EU4 is full of what if scenarios, where one can restore long gone Mongol Empire, or by miracle survive as East Roman Empire that you call Byzantium, why not give the players a little bit of a chalenge where they would go to restore once important religious center. Also while at it perhaps adding a event that renames Tunis to Carthage as long as it is in Catholic hands, that is once it is converted to Catholic faith and controled by Catholic nation.

 
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MadDoctorScientist

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Now like the title says it would be cool to have a religius center for Orthodox nations like Constantinople or Moscow with effects diferent and playing into Orthodox faith. For example if Orthodox nation controls Constantinople it would get +1 Missionary and +1 Patriarchal Authority. The same would go with Moscow. After the fall of Constantinople it would be to Russia to lead Orthodox Christendom by gaining same effects. Also while at it Antioch would also be nice religius center exclusive to Catholics and Orthodox and Coptic nations. For example if Catholic or Coptic Controls Antioch they would get +1 Tolerance of true faith and +0,50 prestige, while for Orthodox instead of 0,50 prestige perhaps simply +1 PA. PA would be earned yearly for controling these centers of religion. What do you think ?
A bit weird how they avoid Jerusalem in the game really.
But I agree that something like you say should be added all the way back in Third Rome, even if the Orthodox resistance to religious and culture changes make it a bit too strong already... my poor Knights...
 

Romanix90

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For all intents and purposes Kiev should be one as well.
Currently Ruthenia is casually converted to Catholicism without any regards despite the fact that it wasn't converted and attempts to convert it caused massive resistances.
That and it was (and is) the major Orthodox center which only Moscow could rival in Eastern Europe.
 
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JaxElite

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Now like the title says it would be cool to have a religius center for Orthodox nations like Constantinople or Moscow with effects diferent and playing into Orthodox faith. For example if Orthodox nation controls Constantinople it would get +1 Missionary and +1 Patriarchal Authority. The same would go with Moscow. After the fall of Constantinople it would be to Russia to lead Orthodox Christendom by gaining same effects. Also while at it Antioch would also be nice religius center exclusive to Catholics and Orthodox and Coptic nations. For example if Catholic or Coptic Controls Antioch they would get +1 Tolerance of true faith and +0,50 prestige, while for Orthodox instead of 0,50 prestige perhaps simply +1 PA. PA would be earned yearly for controling these centers of religion. What do you think ?
Constantinople and Antioch are already religious centers for orthodox, although you also need jerusalem, alexandria and rome to get the boni.

Moscow on the other hand makes zero sense. The only people who ever claimed it to be "third rome" were the muscovites themselves to legitimise a claim on the roman empire. For noone else the city was as holy as Rome I and Rome II. Also it would create a lot if weird stuff if byzantium doesn't fall or is recovered.
 
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JaxElite

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For all intents and purposes Kiev should be one as well.
Currently Ruthenia is casually converted to Catholicism without any regards despite the fact that it wasn't converted and attempts to convert it caused massive resistances.
That and it was (and is) the major Orthodox center which only Moscow could rival in Eastern Europe.
How is ruthenia "casually converted" in game without resistance? Lithuania breaks to rebels almost every single game because of it. And those religious differences sre usually whst balkanises the PLC after the ottomans stared meanly at PLC troops and they all dropped dead
 

Romanix90

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Constantinople and Antioch are already religious centers for orthodox, although you also need jerusalem, alexandria and rome to get the boni.

Moscow on the other hand makes zero sense. The only people who ever claimed it to be "third rome" were the muscovites themselves to legitimise a claim on the roman empire. For noone else the city was as holy as Rome I and Rome II. Also it would create a lot if weird stuff if byzantium doesn't fall or is recovered.
Do you use any mods? I just checked in game and Constantinople and Antioch aren't religius centers. They don't have province modifier for being RC.

The reason why am i suggesting Moscow is because of Russian patriarchate desicion. If Constantinople (Roman state in the east) fals the player can enact this desicion thus making Moscow RC. As for Muscovites trying to legitimise claim on Roman Empire, you have to remember that Zoe Palailogos was married to Ivan III. She was a Roman princes and there was a number of mariges maded between Roman and Russian noble families.
 

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How is ruthenia "casually converted" in game without resistance? Lithuania breaks to rebels almost every single game because of it. And those religious differences sre usually whst balkanises the PLC after the ottomans stared meanly at PLC troops and they all dropped dead
That happens every time PLC happens though and doesn't dismiss my point?

The PLC region in general is awfully shallow and Lithuania is the GP with least amount content in game consistently ever since EU4 release.
 
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JaxElite

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Do you use any mods? I just checked in game and Constantinople and Antioch aren't religius centers. They don't have province modifier for being RC
It is not a province modifier, it is a triggered modifier called "the pentarchy" and like i said also requires rome, alexandria and jerusalem and all of those need to be orthodox
The reason why am i suggesting Moscow is because of Russian patriarchate desicion. If Constantinople (Roman state in the east) fals the player can enact this desicion thus making Moscow RC. As for Muscovites trying to legitimise claim on Roman Empire, you have to remember that Zoe Palailogos was married to Ivan III. She was a Roman princes and there was a number of mariges maded between Roman and Russian noble families.
the russian patriarchat question has a historical problem though. It only happened cause muscocy was the only major orthodox force left. Also it was very much to produce a claim, reinforced by the said marriage. Sadly the dynamics of the chriatian religion and their respective schisms is not represented well in eu4. I agree that muscocy should have the chance to become a center. A problem is that the orthodox heads, the patriarchs are not a political entity actually existing in game, making it hard to script relevant events that don't railroad
 
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Maybe Constantinople could start with the province modifier, but an event with a low MTTH where a Non-Christian owns it and it is Non-Christian removes that modifier forever. Then the owner of Moscow, if Orthodox, could get an event to invest some resources (cash and Admin points) to create a new province modifier in Moscow.
 
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Well, Jerusalem should be a religious center for every Abrahamic faith as I see it. Emphasis on Judaism, for obvious reasons.
 

MadDoctorScientist

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Jerusalem all ready is a CoR with certain efect availble for all Christian, Muslim and Jewish religions.

The Conquest of Jerusalem

  • Prestige.png +0.5 Yearly prestige
  • Missionaries.png +1 Missionary
Now try to imagine something like this for Constantinople, Antioch or Kiev and Moscow. :D
Why have I never run into that while regularly playing as the Knights? That is very weird. Very weird indeed...
But I agree with whomever said Alexandria should be on the list, but let us see what changes with the Crusading States and what not when the Emperor dlc comes out.
 
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Romanix90

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Why have I never run into that while regularly playing as the Knights? That is very weird. Very weird indeed...
But I agree with whomever said Alexandria should be on the list, but let us see what changes with the Crusading States and what not when the Emperor dlc comes out.
Idk. I pre-ordered Emperor and i know that Cyprus will be my first game. Cant wait 9 June. As for Alexandria they all ready have one :

Coptic control of Alexandria

  • Prestige.png +0.5 Yearly prestige
  • Missionaries.png +1 Missionary
  • Tolerance own.png +1 Tolerance of the true faith
Now my suggestion was that it should also be Orthodox CoR since it was a patriarchal seat during the Roman empire and emperor Justinian and after him.
 

MadDoctorScientist

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Idk. I pre-ordered Emperor and i know that Cyprus will be my first game. Cant wait 9 June. As for Alexandria they all ready have one :

Coptic control of Alexandria

  • Prestige.png +0.5 Yearly prestige
  • Missionaries.png +1 Missionary
  • Tolerance own.png +1 Tolerance of the true faith
Now my suggestion was that it should also be Orthodox CoR since it was a patriarchal seat during the Roman empire and emperor Justinian and after him.
As the Knights, my strategy always is to conquer Alexandria as soon as possible due to both the trade and the library (^____^), so giving them some relevance to other churches would be nice.

Or in another words, if you have not chosen Alexandria...

1589847134395.png

I hope memes and quotes are not against the rules. Found nothing on the guidelines about it.
 
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As the Knights, my strategy always is to conquer Alexandria as soon as possible due to both the trade and the library (^____^), so giving them some relevance to other churches would be nice.

Or in another words, if you have not chosen Alexandria...

View attachment 579338

I hope memes and quotes are not against the rules. Found nothing on the guidelines about it.
My strategy with Cyprus is wait until Mamluks and Ottomans kill each other. Don't declare war to soon so you don't get caught between. In one case i even allied myself with Ottos.


Here's my meme
 

MadDoctorScientist

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My strategy with Cyprus is wait until Mamluks and Ottomans kill each other. Don't declare war to soon so you don't get caught between. In one case i even allied myself with Ottos.


Here's my meme
I really try my best not to fight another Christian (or at least Catholic) nations as the Knights since that goes against their vows, which incidentally they broke by invading Rhodes. So, that puts me at a significant disadvantage by itself without the Ottomans sinking my galleys by 59 vs. 16.
Without Cyprus or Crete it is really difficult to go to either Tunis or Alexandria, so I spent most of my time finding a place where to expand, and praise be Emperor will allow me to get Malta at long last, but that is past the point.

I just really like Alexandria and there is that.
 
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Romanix90

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I really try my best not to fight another Christian (or at least Catholic) nations as the Knights since that goes against their vows, which incidentally they broke by invading Rhodes. So, that puts me at a significant disadvantage by itself without the Ottomans sinking my galleys by 59 vs. 16.
Without Cyprus or Crete it is really difficult to go to either Tunis or Alexandria, so I spent most of my time finding a place where to expand, and praise be Emperor will allow me to get Malta at long last, but that is past the point.

I just really like Alexandria and there is that.
Which ideas do you pick first when playing with The Knights. When i play as Cyprus i pick up Naval, for advantages for my navy, followed by Humanist, to decrease revolt risk. After that Defensive, for extra morale and atrition for any invaders. Next you can pick either Economic or Exploration. I don't need to explain what Exploration do and usualy i pick up for number 4 Economic to decrease development of provinces and it also decrease mantainance cost for your infantry. That is followed by Quantity, where you can muster a much larger force. Number 6 is Trade. Those extra merchants can make your life easier on Alepo or Alexandria trade nodes. Followed by Quality, to get extra benefits for both your army and navy. As for last one it doeasn't matter because by now you secured Holly Land, you restored Jerusalem, your armies and navies are powerfull enough to witstand Ottos and Mams combined. Plus i always in the mean while secure couple of alliances in Europe. Usualy its Castillce/Spain, France also aint bad choice, perhaps Austria or Hungary. Also you need to keep in mind that Jerusalem have realy super ideas that plays into Catholic faith and crusader armies.
 

MadDoctorScientist

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Which ideas do you pick first when playing with The Knights. When i play as Cyprus i pick up Naval, for advantages for my navy, followed by Humanist, to decrease revolt risk. After that Defensive, for extra morale and atrition for any invaders. Next you can pick either Economic or Exploration. I don't need to explain what Exploration do and usualy i pick up for number 4 Economic to decrease development of provinces and it also decrease mantainance cost for your infantry. That is followed by Quantity, where you can muster a much larger force. Number 6 is Trade. Those extra merchants can make your life easier on Alepo or Alexandria trade nodes. Followed by Quality, to get extra benefits for both your army and navy. As for last one it doeasn't matter because by now you secured Holly Land, you restored Jerusalem, your armies and navies are powerfull enough to witstand Ottos and Mams combined. Plus i always in the mean while secure couple of alliances in Europe. Usualy its Castillce/Spain, France also aint bad choice, perhaps Austria or Hungary. Also you need to keep in mind that Jerusalem have realy super ideas that plays into Catholic faith and crusader armies.
I rarely live past 1650, but depending on the circumstances Religious - Naval or Defensive - Maritime or Espionage - Innovative - and then the Winged Ottomans arrive.
It would be nice if there was a nicer way of keeping the Orthodox island happy without raining gold and monarch points on missionaries and the "Greeks in the Order" decision since the Ottoman navy overwhelms mine even if they are at war with Venice and the Mamluks at the same time, but hopefully Emperor will finally give me a fighting chance. (And the opportunity of having a Highlander Grand Master...)

The only realistic way of expanding as the Knights as it is now requires you to prey on Byzantium, Venice and Cyprus as soon as the Winged Ottomans arrive, and if I make Byzantium my vassal (technically preferable to full annexation by the Turks, so somewhat forgivable, Rhodes aside) I would still be in a really weak position and with land directly next to the Ottomans. Not even Scotland and Brittany are that much surrounded, by thunder.