Stellaris Dev Diary #260 - Summer Culture

[Harkinian's Dinner]

Planets full of government-funded worker drones whose only role is to enact government policies, disseminate new official standards, and develop local infrastructure... in what way are bureaucrats not thematically appropriate to how unity functions?

Unity is about something like national identity, uniting the people under a common purpose... I don't see how people look at bureaucrats toiling away in offices and think "this makes me proud of my society and makes me want to contribute". Unless you're a weird alien species that loves that stuff, of course. The primary effect of Unity is to unlock Traditions, which are thematically tied closely with culture. So Culture Workers were always the obvious primary Unity-generating job to me, with Bureaucrats only making sense if you squint really hard. Of course, they also weren't designed as Unity jobs in the first place, and only got shuffled into it when Administrative Capacity was removed.

Culture Workers returning as a superior but limited Unity job works pretty well to address this.

 

[Millbot]

Yeah, not sure reduced crime rate for pacifists is worth having in the game. I know these aren't suppose to be game changing bonuses, but this one seems like it might as well not exist because any time I've played pacifist, crime hasn't really been an issue.

Might I suggest maybe piracy reduction? I know it can be pretty much stamped out with certain setups, but it would be useful to pacifist builds early on, since their factions aren't keen on militarization. I'll admit this might be a temporary thing as well because the piracy system needs serious work (it scales to infinity, make no sense in a number of ways and is mostly an annoyance until people can get the techs and setups needed to make it a non-issue. All that said, if you can't do anything else, it reduced piracy would likely be more useful to pacifist than reduced crime. I feel players would at least feel the minor benefit, where they likely don't really feel anything from reduced crime.

 

[CometBliss]

That’s exactly what I mean by adding it for the sake of adding it. It’s either gonna be too good you spam them on every world like psi corp or so bad they stay where they currently are. There is no new game mechanism for them to stand out.

You can only make on per planet, psicorps require level 2 capitals. I do think this building will help too, because if you want to make more unity you need more workers I want to add this but +15% unity output on my capitol that looks like this, but I do not have room to add it tech is too important and unity is too. I do think there should be more ways to make unity and get unity output bonus on planets that make unity.

 

[drawar]

• Materialist: +2 Amenities (Planet)
• Spiritualist: -2.5% Amenity Usage (Planet)
• Militarist: +1 Naval Capacity (Empire)
• Pacifist: -2.5% Crime (Planet)
• Egalitarian: +2.5% Worker Happiness (Planet)
• Authoritarian: +5 Ruler Political Power (Planet)
• Xenophobe: +3 Edict Fund (Empire)
• Xenophile: -2.5% Pop Upkeep (Planet)

I don't think the happiness bonus for Egalitarians is really that interesting, they already have access to 'Utopian Abundance'.
I think we could put “-2.5% Pop Upkeep (Planet)” instead.

For xenophiles, one could replace with a bonus for immigration, such as "Pop growth from immigration" or "Immigration pull" for the planet.

Unless there is an overhaul of the crime system, I think the bonus for Pacifists should also be replaced.
Maybe a bonus like "Pop growth speed" or TV

Afterwards, for Militarists, it's very personal, but I would prefer to avoid a bonus increasing Naval Capacity.
Ethics already increases naval power.
I would prefer instead a bonus for defensive armies and/or armies recruited on the planet, like an experience bonus.
I would have liked to say a "manpower" bonus, but (very unfortunately) there is no manpower in Stellaris.

 

[Idle America]

As someone who always builds the monument on every planet for roleplay purposes, this pleases me greatly.

 

[TheRevanchist25]

So...I gotta be this guy but...what's the point in crime reduction bonuses when Crime is barely ever a thing in game to begin with? Crime and Criminal Enterprises/Activities like Piracy are so neutered and pointless right now that there is no reason for these things to even exist. Like, Penal Colony is a planet type that no one uses, because Crime is never an actual problem unless a Criminal Megacorp has Branch offices on your planets.

Personally, unless you guys plan on actually overhauling Piracy and Crime to be more robust features in the future, don't even bother with Crime Reduction bonuses, because It's FAR too easy to keep crime at Zero, even as a Slaving Despot Empire.

 

[DeanTheDull]

I don't quite see how spiritualist culture workers are supposed to help on priest worlds.

Unless I'm completely missing part of your reasoning, the spiritualist unity world is already going to be at (or very near) double amenities from the capital, ruler jobs and priests. What good is the amenity need reduction on that kind of world?

The only exception might be a spiritualist megacorp who replaces half their priests with managers. But then again, a megacorp has more than enough other options to take care of amenities.

Base amenities, habitability, and Amenity excess strategies, variously.

From the 10-25 pop range, planets have a floor of 11 amenities: 5 from the building, 6 from the ruler. 4 of these can be claimed for the rulers- either the double-at-100% habitability or the self-sufficient-at-0-habitability- but this leaves 6 amenities, and thus 3 pops, who can be covered with 2 amenities each.

That's pretty much your pop-assembly pop, and... 2 culture workers.

What this means is that when all of your pops are already at a base 2 level, the amenity discounts- or any amenity economy boosts you may have (Charismatic, tech-boosts, Vultaum, ascension perks, etc.)- start effectively countering the habitability dynamic of habitability-amenities decreasing the max-amenity boosts. (20% happiness at double the amenities, for 12% stability, for 7.2 production boost.)

In other words, if you need 2 amenities per pop for maximum production at 100% habitability, then with a 5% amenity reduction boost you can get the excess-happiness bonus of 100% habitability even at 95%. You'd still have the 2.5% production loss of 5% habitability below 100, but you'd still have the 7.2% production boost of double the amenities required.


On its own, this doesn't do much, of course- and it's not intended to be- but it does work in the course of other options to keep excess-amenity boosts high even on lower-habitability worlds, the sort of midling worlds you might put a unity economy once your higher priority world needs are met.


By contrast, the materialist comparison is enough for its own amenities, but doesn't really shape or support the overall planet amenity economy. This can be a boon, but in the context of dedicated unity worlds it's more of a loss.

 

[DeanTheDull]

Unity is about something like national identity, uniting the people under a common purpose... I don't see how people look at bureaucrats toiling away in offices and think "this makes me proud of my society and makes me want to contribute".

Do you pay your taxes? Do your taxes pay for industry and policies that provide for- or compel- industry in government-directed directions?

Unity doesn't imply that everyone likes the situation, only that they're going along with it. A regulatory and compliance aparatus is absolutely a force for social mobilization, and far, far more than celebrity culture or artists.

Unless you're a weird alien species that loves that stuff, of course. The primary effect of Unity is to unlock Traditions, which are thematically tied closely with culture.

Traditions are far more akin to government policies than organic culture. It may be government policies reflecting/supporting a cultural dynamic, but a bonus like, say, -10% building upkeep probably has far more to do with 'government regulation has changed building codes' than 'artists against global warming.'

 

[zZander56]

So...I gotta be this guy but...what's the point in crime reduction bonuses when Crime is barely ever a thing in game to begin with? Crime and Criminal Enterprises/Activities like Piracy are so neutered and pointless right now that there is no reason for these things to even exist. Like, Penal Colony is a planet type that no one uses, because Crime is never an actual problem unless a Criminal Megacorp has Branch offices on your planets.

Personally, unless you guys plan on actually overhauling Piracy and Crime to be more robust features in the future, don't even bother with Crime Reduction bonuses, because It's FAR too easy to keep crime at Zero, even as a Slaving Despot Empire.

A crime rework has been a long time coming. Perfect for an internal politics expansion.

 

[Tamwin5]

A crime rework has been a long time coming. Perfect for an internal politics expansion.

I actually wouldn't say so. I could easily see an internal politics expansion be absolutely bursting without even touching crime. Then you could have another exapnsion that overhauls crime, piracy, adds (or expands on) corruption in internal politics, and probably gets Espionage involved as well. Trying to add crime in to the internal politics expansion I think would just result in it only getting some minor changes and then left on the sideline again.

 

[TheRevanchist25]

I actually wouldn't say so. I could easily see an intel politics expansion be absolutely bursting without even touching crime. Then you could have another exapnsion that overhauls crime, piracy, adds (or expands on) corruption in internal politics, and probably gets Espionage involved as well. Trying to add crime in to the internal politics expansion I think would just result in it only getting some minor changes and then left on the sideline again.

I actually agree with this, because things like Piracy should not be limited to an internal domestic issue. It should be an issue that neighboring nations sometimes need to cooperate on in order to stamp down, because the pirates would logically also try to hide in the border regions, no man's land, smuggling goods across borders. Some empires you neighbor might even strikes deals with pirates and smugglers in order to try and destabilize and distract you from what their doing and vice versa.

Crime and Piracy should be an ever-present, international problem, that includes intergalactic trade routes like space Silk Roads that pirates attack regularly for massive scores, and the nation whose convoy gets raided loses resources of various amounts and rarity depending on various factors. If the Community ends up banning Slave Trade, then the Crime system needs to launch its own Black Market Slave Trading where they discreetly approach all nations that use slaves and offer their services or something. Likewise if you or an AI empire that is anti-slavery after the Ban, is spying on Slaving empire and manage to discover this cooperation then the game rolls what happens next. They can either approach you nicely, and demand that you stop, they can report you to the GC and you get Sanctioned, or they can get a CB to force you to stop. Idk something.

You need the option of being able to manually path out Patrol Routes, because the patrol function is awful. Custodians could take it upon themselves, during a lack of Crisis, to police the galaxy as an anti-crime/anti-piracy force, where they set patrol routes galaxy wide across the trade routes while they search for strongholds to hit and knock out. You can then if you choose, to deny the Custodians access to your territory if you want to try to hide your cooperation if you are in fact doing so. Barbaric Despoiler nations should behave exactly like gigantic Bandit Kingdoms, as the name suggest. Free reign to ignore Border rules and raid planets for slaves, resources etc.

Crime and Piracy, in order to be done justice, would need it's own Expansion... and that's exactly why it will never happen, because if the Devs refuse to ever fix something far more important, like Ground Combat, they sure as HELL won't ever bother with this problem.

 

[zZander56]

Crime and Piracy, in order to be done justice, would need it's own Expansion... and that's exactly why it will never happen

Solid point. I could maybe see a minor expansion dedicated to the concept, but anything it contains should ideally be heavily connected to Internal Politics, which is why it should probably act as a component rather than its own thing.

I'm just waiting for the day Syndicates stop being awful for every single player tbh.

 

[A2ch0n]

• Materialist: +2 Amenities (Planet)
• Spiritualist: -2.5% Amenity Usage (Planet)
• Militarist: +1 Naval Capacity (Empire)
• Pacifist: -2.5% Crime (Planet)
• Egalitarian: +2.5% Worker Happiness (Planet)
• Authoritarian: +5 Ruler Political Power (Planet)
• Xenophobe: +3 Edict Fund (Empire)
• Xenophile: -2.5% Pop Upkeep (Planet)

I really like those stats, except of the Xenophobe and Authoritarian one. Authoritarian should get the edict fund to reflect the ability to make empire wide decisions as a Ruler. Xenophobe should get Ethics Attraction or Stability instead. I would suggest to remove Political Power. Never saw any value in it.

 

[Wonoz]

Additionally, Culture Workers/Death Chroniclers now belong in the Administrator category, in the Culture Worker sub-category meaning they’ll benefit from multiplicative bonuses to Administrator output (such as those provided by the Unification or Ecclesiastical planetary designations). They produce a base of 4 Unity and +10% Government Ethics Attraction (+2.5% Stability for Death Chroniclers) with 3 Consumer Goods upkeep.

For this alone I feel like the nutty discussion about Job-categories two weeks was worth it. Although the intention was not to make Precinct houses obsolete for Pascifists

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Well there's a lot of feedback, so I won't be able to answer every point individually, but I do appreciate the discussions that have happened since yesterday.

I'm looking at changing some of the modifiers around - moving edict funds to authoritarians is a far better fit than xenophobes for example. Some other ideas I have in my notebook that I'm considering are: housing usage reduction (egalitarian) and trade value from living standards (pacifist).

 

[Pancakelord]

• Materialist: +2 Amenities (Planet)
• Spiritualist: -2.5% Amenity Usage (Planet)
• Militarist: +1 Naval Capacity (Empire)
• Pacifist: -2.5% Crime (Planet)
• Egalitarian: +2.5% Worker Happiness (Planet)
• Authoritarian: +5 Ruler Political Power (Planet)
• Xenophobe: +3 Edict Fund (Empire)
• Xenophile: -2.5% Pop Upkeep (Planet)

@Alfray Stryke

I like the ethic-specific effects (I've previously done something like this with Enforcers in a mod - keyed to fanatic-ethic effects, so that only one effect was active at a time) this is a good niche for culture workers.

That said, I'm not personally a fan of some effects being empire wide and others being planet-wide, it doesn't feel as consistent.
You already get an empire wide bonus, sort of, from the unity, I feel like the supplemental effects ought to remain localised. e.g.

• For Militarist perhaps this could
  • reduce the upkeep cost of military buildings on the planet.
  • IF you use the battle thralls slavery type, increase battle thrall output on the planet
    • e.g. by 2%-2.5% - so up to 12-15% if you have 6 culture workers, making them a solid pick, as there rarely is a reason to use that specific slavery type these days, beyond RP. Having to go militarist + authoritarian + battle thralls + build/upgrade a monument to maximise this effect, would be an interesting build, if nothing else.
• For Xenophobe perhaps this could
  • increase habitability of your primary species on that planet by X% - natural supremacy and all that.
  • OR increase primary speciesgrowth via immigration on that world.
    • If I want to play xenophobe and not go in to robotics, or in to cloning (for whatever reason) it can be hard to sustain growth. Fostering a strong "<Speciesname> first" culture probably ought to have some impact on intra-empire immigration.

To ensure that hive-minds and machine intelligences don’t feel left out, Sensorium/Simulation Sites now provide 2/4/6 Evaluator jobs per tier of the building. These now provide 4 Unity and 3 Amenities in exchange for an upkeep of 2 Energy.

Perhaps these could be influenced by civics for gestalts (e.g. Driven Assimilators will assimilate pops faster on worlds with evaluators)?

• Pacifist: -2.5% Crime (Planet)

Separately, this probably belongs in a crime rework suggestion, but for the specific case of criminal megacorps I feel like culture workers ought to invert the way criminals work. I.e. Criminals in a criminal megacorp pay you, as you essentially syndicate them in. That might be too obtuse to implement via culture workers, but imo it would give the civic some additional mechanical distinction. Perhaps it could be worked in to a branch office job instead, siphoning funds off a Branch-world's criminals.

Scope creep is a thing so here's some other ideas, maybe for 3.5:

• some sort of "wartime propaganda edicts" - perhaps we could get an edict (costing whatever) to have culture workers in our empire reduce passive war-exhaustion (perhaps this disables their unity output whilst the edict is active) tick rate.
• Endorsing (or suppressing) a faction could have its effectiveness tied to the number of culture workers you have? [with endorsing boosting unity output further, and suppressing actively script-shifting the ethics of non-governing pops to governing pops on worlds with culture workers]
• Planets with Monuments in democracies could be targets for random "election events" politicians give a speech, delivered via culture workers, boosting or reducing random stats on a planet by X% (being positive or negative could perhaps be tied to avg planet ethics vs empire ethics)

 

[Foxosaur]

I can see why people don’t see the alignment of Pacifists receiving a crime modifier thematically(though two lines to explain 'how' would largely take care of it) but mechanically it could work really well since a ruthless megacorp can be hard to deal with for a Pacifist. If you don’t use that cb in a year you can only use liberation wars or defensive wars.

I’ll have to get into the game again to see if there’s a nice general use / need for it, as it’s been too long but maybe it isn’t that comparable to other modifiers.

 

[currylambchop]

The bonus is all over the place. Planet-wide ones feel super bad because you generally don’t build these on non-unity worlds. Almost feel like the change is bringing cultural workers back for the sake of bringing it back without considering larger picture and they don’t have a clear identity.

Perhaps that's what they want to change, to turn it into something that is useful on any world.

 

[Starfury]

Perhaps that's what they want to change, to turn it into something that is useful on any world.

I doubt that's the case, as Alfray said those bonuses are not supposed to be the main draw of the job. Hence they likely won't be strong enough to make the building worth it over another building provinding "relevant" jobs for the planet

As stated, we're not wanting the ethics-based modifiers to be the main draw of the job (that's the unity production), but I'll look at changing up the modifiers for some of these.

 

[d12ddd]

Well there's a lot of feedback, so I won't be able to answer every point individually, but I do appreciate the discussions that have happened since yesterday.

I'm looking at changing some of the modifiers around - moving edict funds to authoritarians is a far better fit than xenophobes for example. Some other ideas I have in my notebook that I'm considering are: housing usage reduction (egalitarian) and trade value from living standards (pacifist).

I actually really like the Ruler PP bonus on Authoritarians, really lets you keep those slaves in line. Maybe move it to Spiritualists? They have the whole Edict thing about them already, so it would make sense.