Resources: A Retrospective.

[Pancakelord]

So there's no real point to this thread, no sexy suggestion, or axe to grind over performance, or even hype for Eldritch Fish-aliens.
Just me looking back at some of the resources we've lost along the way since V1.0, why those changes might have happened and contemplating what new purpose you'd give to them - if you were to reintroduce some in to the current version of the game.

I went for a dive on the Wiki commit history to find this all, from most recent resource changes to oldest:

Spoiler: The L-Cluster, 'Grey' resources & Nanite Streamlining

L-Cluster resources simplified down in to "Nanites"

Nano Resources were simplified down in to nanites [as far as I can tell this change happened with 2.2].
What are nanites now used for? (Bear in mind they are a resource - and potential antagonist - hyped up in the L-cluster event texts as something that could destroy whole empires).

1. Fuelling a Transmuter building that converts a nanite into 2 Gas/Crystals/Motes & 5 energy.
   • A building with an economic impact so small, by that point in the game, it isn't worth the hassle of finding a free tile to build it on.
2. Running a Nanite Repair component on ships.
3. And an edict increasing research CG output
   • Really? It's *Grey goo* ... and all I can do is make it build plasma TVs and toasters?
   • Edit: as NHunter_rus points out the Edict is Research related, not CG related...that said, the effect is Still pretty "meh" for such a rare resource...

Nanites are basically just preserve the first of the 4 "OG" L-cluster resources (Grey Actuators +research).
The other 2/3 initial resources (Grey Crystals and Grey dust) are not really preserved in the game, Grey Scales is basically just "farming subsidies 1.0".

Spoiler: Trade Enclaves From Xura Gel to Gasses.

Unique Trade Enclave Resources replaced with Gas/Crystals/Motes

Trade enclave resources were removed from the game, now if 3 enclaves spawn each offers either motes, gas or crystals, case in point:

There was literally no reason for this change. Where the other resource replacements you could argue were due to the edict system or due to FTL changes (more on that below), of all the lost resources these are the most baffling to me as they were unique - they had their own unique flavour text and method of acquisition, and blowing up an enclave (or having an AI FP blow one up, which I have seen once) would mean they're gone for good, so it was worth protecting them if you wanted their goods. Now if an enclave blows up, who cares? I can produce all the strategic resouces I want on my own, anyway...

• Hell, with the release of MegaCorp PDX should have at least re-added these resources as something MCs could produce from branch office buildings & sell on the galactic market.
  • This would give MCs unique goods to produce and sell (y'now that thing that corporations do in real life - product research and production).
  • This would would have recycled old assets (effectively no art or writing cost) and made playing as and trading with megacorps a more unique experience.

Spoiler: The rise of Galactic Resource Homogeneity.

Galactically clustered rare resources removed (effects substituted in to Edicts... mostly)

Once upon a time there were rare resources that spawned in certain parts of the galaxy, most of these were boiled down in to edicts with similar effects - costing Gas/Motes/Crystals.
Whilst the preservation of their effects is fine, the fact that the galaxy no longer has sectors that spawn unique things is ... depressing, it's definitely noticeable as all games post 2.0 tend to result in homogenous expansion - you just blob outward smacking your fleets against your neighbours as it's all the same, whereas prior to this, you'd want to try and take key areas of the galaxy or form alliances & trade deals (if you didn't want to conquer).

• A favourite strategy of mine, Pre 2.0, was to "liberate" (or conquer and release) a few systems or worlds - often in far off parts of the galaxy - that were running (e.g.) Teldar Mining operations, then swoop in after liberation and offer them protection & a trade deal they couldn't refuse.

Spoiler: Some Strategic Resources became Edicts, some Stars became a little less interesting.

Some strategic resources got lost along the way too.

Neutronium Ore, Pitharan dust and satramine gas have also all turned in to edicts costing Gas/Motes/Crystals. These are less of a loss as they could spawn anywhere in the galaxy and starbase modules (if I remember right) could reproduce them in the late-game.

BUT, Stars are still not as flavoursome as it once was, Neutron stars were fairly rare once upon a time & finding a Neutron star yielding Neutronium ore was pretty cool.

Spoiler: Easier Terraforming, the Devaluation of Gene Engineering and the Death of diverse worlds.

Terraforming Gasses and liquids
Further, the Terraforming process was streamlined by removing Terraforming Liquids and Gasses from the game, terraforming just costs EC now. This initially seems like a quality of life improvement ... however it also makes the game far more dull, If I don't like a world now I just throw money at it, wait a bit then its converted.

• This both devalues the habitability mechanic and cheapens the experience of discovering, say a Gaia world (as they'll all end up like gaia worlds by the end game.
• Terraforming being so easy, to the point of costlessness (money has no value by midgame, usually), also devalues the mechanics underpinning genetic engineering, to a degree.
  • At 100% habitability you don't suffer any supplementary CG cost for pops on a colony,
  • So why bother gene engineering each species to exist on a world, when you can just set that world to something all species can live on?

At least before the change to terraforming only costing EC (and time), I had to venture out in to the galaxy and find a gas giant yielding this rare stuff to run my terraforming operations.

• There were literally cases where I'd wage war over a single system containing a single gas giant, yielding terraforming gas. Because that stuff was like liquid crack for your expansion if you could get it early.
• I've never had that experience post 2.0 as nothing has ever been rare enough for me to need to conquer the galaxy. (with the possible exception of Grey (pre-nanite resources) - until they were removed too).

Spoiler: Starbases: The OG rare resource refineries

Rare resource refinement
As a small aside, for those that don't remember, or picked the game up later. Where most resource refinement is done on planets (and sometimes habitats) via synthesisers in 2.7.2, a lot was actually done on starbases via modules in past versions of the game. Modern starbases feel a little bland in their module offerings as many of these modules are now in the history books, perhaps they could reprise their role as orbital refineries for rare and dangerous resources... somehow?

(I only have this screenshot because I replayed a Pre Utopia (V1.4.1 and earlier) game recently... which is a very different experience to V2.7.2).

Concluding thoughts on these changes.
I get why (in some cases) these changes were made - PDX wanted Edicts to feel more unique, they wanted to include a mana system and have it do interesting things (edicts are basically just the gods in imperator, instead of stabbing a pig to get a buff for N years, you sacrifice "Influence"), or perhaps the FTL changes raised concerns that if resources were too spread out, or too isolated, players would find it too long in the late game to reach everything via hyperlanes.

Other changes, like the trade enclave resources being cut, are far less clear to me. And that so many redundant resources have not also made their way back in to the game in other features is both confusing and a little disheartening.

• e.g. Megacorps could have branch offices manufacturing rare goods (like Xura Gel) for sale and distribution on galactic markets,
  • Or Non-MC empires (for those without that DLC) could buy licensing rights to produce those resources from Trade Enclaves, locally (in planet or empire-unique buildings, to regulate output).
• Bio-Gestalts, with their colossal consciousnesses could unlock the potential of some rare spices
  • The potential of those rare resources could be completely lost on individualistic nations, making bio-gestalt economies more unique.
• Machine-Gestalts might brave the firey hearts of Neutron stars to forge the hardest alloys in the galaxy etc.
  • Similarly making machines a little more unique to play late-game.

But - perhaps worst of all - for every resource paradox has streamlined (even if the overall effects were preserved) the galaxy has grown a little dimmer and less wonderous and less interesting.

• The changes to Nanites made the L-cluster underwhelming, it feels like 'just another part' of the galaxy now, I rarely actually bother to open it anymore.
  • And before writing all of this up, I didn't quite understand why, now I do - there is no real incentive anymore to the L-cluster chain, nanites have been reduced to something less than it's precursor resources.
• The changes to Trading Enclaves made them, frankly, irrelevant.
  • I can build whatever they can produce on one of my many worlds or habitats.
  • I no longer care if Enclaves live or die; where once, I did.
• The removal of Rare, galactically clustered space resources has made the galaxy a less unique and exciting place to explore.
  • When there is no potential "gold-rush" resource to be found, or no highly valuable star-cluster to fight over and the whole galaxy spawns the same (few) resources left in an equal distribution, it quickly grows to feel homogenous and boring.
• With Strategic resources all retired in to edicts - or deposits being boiled & distilled down into Motes/Crystals/Gasses, I find my economies always look identical from game to game.
  • There is no chance of needing Orillium to maximise my build, and lacking it, whilst an enemy has it.
  • Or needing terraforming gasses for terraforming and then brokering a trade deal for that with (now my envoys post-federations) or taking it via conquest.
  • Because those items are all gone now.
• With the changes to terraforming, terraforming has never been easier. However, the habitability system and the differences between alien climate preferences are less important than ever before.
  • Where once there was a real incentive to play an egalitarian & diverse empire (even early in the game), because you could have a multicultural empire living on many worlds, whilst authoritarians had to work a little harder to make do with their slaves and their un-adapted master-race... now there is not.
  • Once finding a certain type of planet would raise an interesting, if admittedly brief, strategic question
    • How can I maximise the potential of this world?
      • Do I hunt for terraforming resources & change the world to suit my own people?
      • Or do I Gene mod my people to suit the world?
      • Or do I let in some refugees to live there in my name?
      • Or deploy robots?
  • Now there is no question, it's always (You'll be a Gaia world, or an Ecumenopolis ... sooner or later, once I've saved up some more cash).

I didn't want to end on a depressing or pessimistic note (as so many of my posts do). So.. if you could reintroduce some of these resources (most of their assets and localisation strings are still in the game files btw, I've checked) What benefits or mechanics would you give them?

• Would you perhaps re-introduce them as resources only exploitable by certain government types (e.g. gestalts or megacorps)
• Would you scatter them amongst the stars, in low numbers, granting each one wildly powerful effects to encourage exploration & great galactic crusades for them?
• Would you reprise the old role of starbases as refineries?

 

[Rosthun]

Original idea of Stellaris by Henrik Fahraeus was a cool and immersive sci-fi story generator, Wiz came with his own vision and wanted a min-max 4x strategy, and at the end of the day we have this weird amalgamation of completely opposite ideas that don't properly work together and please neither camp. I very much preferred the original implementation, but at this point I just want for Paradox to choose the direction at stick with it.

 

[Shifty2012]

Anyone played Distant Worlds here? The extremely rare resources in that game genuinely are worth fighting over; and the AI frequently does if you withhold trade.

Not so in Stellaris, just buy it on the market, there's enough for everyone. I both love and hate the changes this game has gone through.


I'd like to see some resources kept off the market altogether. Bring back some value in holding key systems other than "ooh look a chokepoint", maybe even a sort of jealousy modifier to diplomacy with other factions as they covet your space ox.

 

[jwk4heels]

I can't really find a reason to disagree with any of your 5 major points. I feel like the last several games I've played have had a certain sameness to them not only in the empire level choices I make about what to build and when, what to research, etc. but also in the discovery and expansion phase. Finding systems with motes/gases/crystals isn't particularly interesting or useful. Honestly, I feel like finding a system with a couple alloys available is a much more exciting and beneficial find early on vs. strategic resources, regardless of whether I have the respective harvesting tech or not. And the only enclave I ever even think about is the Curators for that 10% research boost, and perhaps a scientist. Otherwise enclaves seem to add nothing to the game. I'd like to see more interplay between them and megacorps, perhaps. And yeah, terraforming isn't particularly interesting either because it seems both inevitable and trivial in cost. The only interesting decision to make regarding terraforming is whether or not to take the Gaia world ascension. I'd love to see more asymmetric gameplay both in terms of galaxy terrain/resource distribution and empire playstyles. All that being said, I think I mostly like the direction overall that Stellaris has moved in gameplay wise, but I bemoan some of the flavor and asymmetry lost along the way.

 

[Pancakelord]

I'd like to see some resources kept off the market altogether. Bring back some value in holding key systems other than "ooh look a chokepoint", maybe even a sort of jealousy modifier to diplomacy with other factions as they covet your space ox.

I completely agree with this. Thankfully tradability is one of the easier things to edit for a resource.

Below are some notes on reversing my 5 points above, mostly for myself as I plan to build a mod to "fix" this situation, and for anyone else who is curious.

Spoiler: Me slowly figuring out how the deposit and cluster code works.

Re-adding galactically scarce resources.
I also dug in to the pre 2.0 scripts for resources, it would seem it _is_ still possible (in theory) to add back in galactically segregated resources. There were 6 clustered resources pre 2.0, Granthium,etc and the game checked and placed these with a double negative, basically they could spawn anywhere in the galaxy (like motes today, for example) but there was an additional weighting of 0 if the target deposit was outside of resource_cluster_N (where it checks resource clusters 0,1,2,3,4,5) - I've highlit this condition below, taken straight from the files in v1.0.3, it uses the is_in_cluster command.

The 2.20 dev diary gave a full list of scripting commands and the is_in_cluster was still on there, meaning it should still be an executable command, its simply not being used for resources right now.

• I do not know what a resource cluster "Is" (though its likely what a later dev-diary referred to as a "constellation" - a lump of stars with defined choke points, perhaps all stars in some clusters are designated as "resource clusters" whilst others are designated "home clusters" (so players dont start next to weird stuff).
• Further, this exists in scripted triggers:

is_fe_cluster = {
    OR = {
        is_in_cluster = fe1_cluster
        is_in_cluster = fe2_cluster
        is_in_cluster = fe3_cluster
        is_in_cluster = fe4_cluster
        is_in_cluster = fe_mach_cluster
    }
}

Because that syntax is similar I assume you could construct a resource that only spawns in FE space for example - ancient relics could be told to spawn around a shattered ring-world in the Machine FE's space by setting them to spawn deposits over ringworlds, that are not not in the fe_mech_cluster. FE clusters are likely the starting constellations for FEs, that they fully occupy when you find them (a cluster must be half a dozen to a dozen stars then?)

I've also figured out how to fetch cluster names via console on a 1k star galaxy (looks trippy AF)

With that all said, lets test this:

And here we have it, deposits of 100 Gas only spawning in resource_cluster_2, running on stellaris V2.7.2.

Each resource cluster seems to take up ~15-20% of the galaxy (on spiral arms too) so this is more forgiving than the really tight drops I remember from pre2.0. But, I imagine tweaking the weights & setting additional limits (like constraining it to just nebulae in Resource_cluster_X would also replicate pre 2.0 where you could get a bunch of drops really close together, but nowhere else in the galaxy.

Spoiler: Test Re-adding resource costs to terraforming

Reviewing the Terraforming 1.0.3 files, It seems like the modern version of terraforming files just needs a resource block to re-add a resource cost.

(Stellaris\common\terraform\00_basic_terraform_links.txt)
Now to try duplicating one of the terraforming files and inserting some strat resources:

And just like that, it works on 2.7.2

Granted, the UI would need adjusting, but whatever that might just be Dynamic Overhaul UI not working with this right, the AI wont care and the tooltips are still clear for players.

Changing resources for trade enclaves & L-Cluster spawns should just be a text file edit too
(once the old resources are re-created - the hardest bit would be finding a new purpose for them to keep them distinct from edicts I guess)

I think I mostly like the direction overall that Stellaris has moved in gameplay wise, but I bemoan some of the flavor and asymmetry lost along the way.

I generally agree too, mechanically the game is better... in every way not connected to the galaxy map. I however feel they've really neglected making the galaxy feel special & unique, they could make each cluster distinct (somehow).

That said, seeing all of the above points I made _seem to be_ possible to re-add to the game, so it should be possible to mod back in scarce resources separated in to clusters, up to 6 of them for the 6 resource clusters, and could even put ultra rare resources in to FE sub-clusters. And still keep most-all of the mechanical improvements since 2.0

 

[GuildenSpur]

I would love to play a version of Stellaris again with all the rare resources, starbase modules and your rare resource district idea. I bet the AI would be able to handle it better and make for a more interesting and unique game.
Maybe it's possible to add this as mods as you demonstrated.
Well done

 

[Snorro Soliman]

100% agreement. Wondrous opportunities are now lost. To add a small point of supporting logic to OP's:
Most of the mechanics he suggests are rendered obsolete by the ease with which admin cap is acquired. Being able to make meaningfull, impactfull choices about rare resources, using terraforming or specializing starbases to contribute to the economy, will still fall flat if I can just...colonize another twelve worlds and use the basic resources generated there to rush the market.
That is not to say admin cap is bad: i believe it should be rarer. Maybe only one building per world, or a restrictive specialization a la resort world if you insist of havin a Adeptus Ministorum world(which becomes an instant strategic target...imagine losing 80% of the admin cap in the midst of a war...)

 

[Coconut_Cookie]

Original idea of Stellaris by Henrik Fahraeus was a cool and immersive sci-fi story generator, Wiz came with his own vision and wanted a min-max 4x strategy, and at the end of the day we have this weird amalgamation of completely opposite ideas that don't properly work together and please neither camp. I very much preferred the original implementation, but at this point I just want for Paradox to choose the direction at stick with it.

This is a false dichotomy. Strategy and role play are not opposites. Factions, pops, strata, leaders, different empires, the market can all add to strategy and role play at the same time. The problem in Stellaris is often that one game mechanic has few or no links to a lot of other mechanics resulting in decisions having little weight or consequences. For example the economic side of things is a complex system in itself but there are few links to factions or leaders (or the market for that matter).

 

[Pancakelord]

Maybe only one building per world, or a restrictive specialization a la resort world if you insist of havin a Adeptus Ministorum world(which becomes an instant strategic target...imagine losing 80% of the admin cap in the midst of a war...)

This is an excellent point about admin cap, I've had a think in the past about how to stop it from "going quadratic" as you expand whilst still letting you 1) build beauro buildings on different worlds & 2) still build the odd admin world - the only thing I've come up with (And I know a lot of people probably wont like it as sectors are divisive) is making it a double conditional related to sector worlds.

1. bureaucracy buildings are planet unique (one per world)
2. EXCEPT FOR on Sector capital worlds [& the homeworld] where you can build as many as you like and use the bureaucrat colony specialisation.

I'm very well aware of how bad-a state sectors are in (I really couldnt give a damn about the next big/not-story expansion if it doesnt rework sectors, too) but by limiting bureaucracy buildings to sector capitals it would naturally cut down on the number of bureaucracy buildings in the galaxy by a lot whilst also making sector capitals vulnerable targets in a war ( I Think AI can also be double-weighted to have a regular chance to build bureaucracy buildings on colonies and like a 9000% chance to build them on sector capitals, using a few boolean checks against weight modifiers, or trigger the colony bureaucracy specialisation via script or high-weight planetary decision on AI sector capitals, forcing it to build them,)

• The only problem I see with this idea (as I've not looked in to it) Is IDK if the game differentiates sector capital systems and a sector capital colony (Like how it defines the home world and home system)
  • If it does make a distinction this is good & workable,
  • If it does not make a distinction, this is still exploitable (though to a less degree than the current situation) - I'd only be able to constrain build-limits by system-scope then ("IS SECTOR CAPTIAL SYSTEM?" - there's probably some check for that somewhere)
    • And that would mean you could pump-out habitats in sector capitals and fill them with bureaucracy buildings, eventually leading to the same problem we have now - they'd all be valid admin worlds in a sector capital system - though later in the game and with a much higher sunk-cost.
      • That said, this might still be worth doing as (IMO) it's still an improvement from the status quo & doesnt totally kill tall builds.

 

[NHunter_rus]

And an edict increasing CG output

• Really? It's *Grey goo* ... and all I can do is make it build plasma TVs and toasters?

That edict is added by a mod, Extra Ship Components specifically (the fact that it further devolves nanites into a resource you can produces wherever is beyond the scope of his thread). Vanilla has a different edict for nanites, IIRC "nanite actuators" which gives 10% research speed.

 

[Pancakelord]

That edict is added by a mod, Extra Ship Components specifically (the fact that it further devolves nanites into a resource you can produces wherever is beyond the scope of his thread). Vanilla has a different edict for nanites, IIRC "nanite actuators" which gives 10% research speed.

Thanks I knew something was off but couldnt put my finger on it. I even looked that up in the wiki to make sure it wasnt part of a mod when writing the OP, saw the vanilla edict and stopped reading at "+10%" without checking if the effect was the same lol. Have edited op.

 

[Janx14]

This is a false dichotomy. Strategy and role play are not opposites. Factions, pops, strata, leaders, different empires, the market can all add to strategy and role play at the same time. The problem in Stellaris is often that one game mechanic has few or no links to a lot of other mechanics resulting in decisions having little weight or consequences. For example the economic side of things is a complex system in itself but there are few links to factions or leaders (or the market for that matter).

Indeed I'm tried of hearing that wanting a balance game with interesting battles somehow makes roleplay die.

You'd think having wars where you have to worry about positioning and the like would be better for roleplay than just zooming your entire doomstack to wherever it was needed and winning

 

[Kayden_II]

My "simple" roadmap on resources would look like this:
01. All mineral-deposits in space should be replaced with alloy-deposits in space. The logic is A. to ensure a steady alloy-income even if no colonies with alloy-factory-buildings are involved, B. the necessity to build mineral-mine-districts on colonies if colonies with alloy-factory-buildings are involved and C. A and B scale pretty well with any galaxy-setting ( slider for the number of habitable / colonizable worlds ) someone might choose.
02. Alongside as deposits in space, exotic gases, rare crystals and volatile motes should also be deposits on colonies. That means that they would be exploited via districts, but not produced synthetically via buildings anymore. The logic is A. it fits the narrative that districts exploit the deposits of natural resources on any colony, B. it keeps them actually rare, C. it expands the number of district-types from puny 4 to at least 7 and D. it's a good opportunity to make wet / frozen / dry worlds more distinctive since guess what ? 3 rare resources meet with 3 world-types ! Put the dot(s) together.
03. Trade-Value-Deposits in space: Am I the only one who thinks that it's strange that there're deposits of "trade-value" in space that can be collected like rocks ? Yes ?! Termination !
04. Zro, dark matter, living metal and nanites: I would keep them exclusive as deposits in space.

 

[Daaktard]

My "simple" roadmap on resources would look like this:
01. All mineral-deposits in space should be replaced with alloy-deposits in space. The logic is A. to ensure a steady alloy-income even if no colonies with alloy-factory-buildings are involved, B. the necessity to build mineral-mine-districts on colonies if colonies with alloy-factory-buildings are involved and C. A and B scale pretty well with any galaxy-setting ( slider for the number of habitable / colonizable worlds ) someone might choose.
02. Alongside as deposits in space, exotic gases, rare crystals and volatile motes should also be deposits on colonies. That means that they would be exploited via districts, but not produced synthetically via buildings anymore. The logic is A. it fits the narrative that districts exploit the deposits of natural resources on any colony, B. it keeps them actually rare, C. it expands the number of district-types from puny 4 to at least 7 and D. it's a good opportunity to make wet / frozen / dry worlds more distinctive since guess what ? 3 rare resources meet with 3 world-types ! Put the dot(s) together.
03. Trade-Value-Deposits in space: Am I the only one who thinks that it's strange that there're deposits of "trade-value" in space that can be collected like rocks ? Yes ?! Termination !
04. Zro, dark matter, living metal and nanites: I would keep them exclusive as deposits in space.

Considering how little is changed from what we have today, sounds pretty good tbh.

But yeah, this thread made me remember what i missed from earlier versions of stellaris and that is "important" systems. The gigastructure mod does actually make what type of systems you have matter somewhat but this isnt something a mod needs to add, it should be in the base game already to some extent.

The galaxy is just really bland with a few unique systems that spawn but even they dont really do anything "unique". Even planets felt more interesting back in the day!

 

[Pancakelord]

But yeah, this thread made me remember what i missed from earlier versions of stellaris and that is "important" systems. The gigastructure mod does actually make what type of systems you have matter somewhat but this isnt something a mod needs to add, it should be in the base game already to some extent.

A good point. I'd also add that it took a little more work/thought to actually expand, too, so actually seizing control of an important or rare system felt extremely gratifying in the past, particularly if it involved sending a fleet far from your borders (e.g. via warp or wormhole) in something like a "crusade". The new method of dumping an outpost everywhere takes that strategic choice away somewhat and, paradoxically (despite it involving more steps), makes expansion easier and less strategically deep (because when everywhere needs a star base, it's like nowhere needs one - you just daisychain them & work out "the details" later).

• In 2.7.2 If I see a system with good deposits on it 4 jumps away, I just save up my influence then chain-conquer or build 4 outposts over to it.
• In the past that wouldn't be so clear-cut, I might need to deploy a forward outpost to get my claim/border in that sector going, then i'd invade or liberate a nearby hostile colony (or found one of my own) to further expand my border/legitimise my control in the area.

Now, the new system isn't bad, in many ways it's better over the old one (which was by no means perfect), and some of it's limitations i've overcome by modding-out closed borders ... but, I still would like a reason to use my brain some more when deciding where to expand to next, rather than "TAKE DA CHOKE POINT" and eventually arriving at my target system.

 

[CrazyJ]

Considering how little is changed from what we have today, sounds pretty good tbh.

But yeah, this thread made me remember what i missed from earlier versions of stellaris and that is "important" systems. The gigastructure mod does actually make what type of systems you have matter somewhat but this isnt something a mod needs to add, it should be in the base game already to some extent.

The galaxy is just really bland with a few unique systems that spawn but even they dont really do anything "unique". Even planets felt more interesting back in the day!

i adore that mod, it adds entire century's worth of content to the game. gigastuctures and starnet are the two mods i will never remove, they make the midgame somewhat enjoyable with the right settings.

 

[Kayden_II]

An other reminder: There was also a time in which food wasn't handled on the empire-wide, but on the colony-wide level. The downsides were that the AI had its usual trouble ( key-word: starvation ) and the players a lot of rather unnecessary and annoying micro-management.

Just saying, but stuff like stability, crime and amenities could also be enhanced to the empire-wide level: So, instead of having a zillion of individual colony-values for stability, crime and amenities, there could be just one empire-wide value for each of them. The disadvantage would be a loss of individuality in regards to each and every colony, but the advantages would be the reverse from the downsides above and the opportunity for more specialization: Example: This one colony A with its 12 precinct houses could not only eliminate the entire crime within your empire, but frees up 12 other building-slots on up to 12 other colonies ( B to M ) that could be used instead for other specialized tasks.

 

[exi123]

An other reminder: There was also a time in which food wasn't handled on the empire-wide, but on the colony-wide level. The downsides were that the AI had its usual trouble ( key-word: starvation ) and the players a lot of rather unnecessary and annoying micro-management.

Just saying, but stuff like stability, crime and amenities could also be enhanced to the empire-wide level: So, instead of having a zillion of individual colony-values for stability, crime and amenities, there could be just one empire-wide value for each of them. The disadvantage would be a loss of individuality in regards to each and every colony, but the advantages would be the reverse from the downsides above and the opportunity for more specialization: Example: This one colony A with its 12 precinct houses could not only eliminate the entire crime within your empire, but frees up 12 other building-slots on up to 12 other colonies ( B to M ) that could be used instead for other specialized tasks.

Good idea. While i can agree with amenities i dislike the idea of a centralized crime management. It is the same with centralized bureaucracy and culture. These things should not be packed on one planet and serve the whole empire. Every planet should have its own level of represantation of your empire: Administration, justice, your empires culture need to be reprented on every world within my empire to keep your population tight with your government.

Daily management and crime enforcement can not be done from a planet light years away. The abstract form of unity for example can only be collected locally, because every world in my empire which is loyal to me is "united", like it was in pre 2.6 (Federations).

What i miss is a unique infrastructure for capital worlds. Do you remember the galactic stock exchange only buildable on your empires capital? Or the ministry of culture which buffed all culture output in your empire? Another thing that is gone since 2.2...

Would be interesting what is actually planned to give core/capital worlds some more meaning, right now every planet over the whole empire is evenly important, productive and easy to manage. While the new systems of buildings encourage centralized building on one designated world, it doesnt matter at all where these are.

Build up a cultural powerhouse... in a recently conquered territory somewhere in the galaxy... well what kind of "culture" does it represent?

 

[Pancakelord]

Hello,
So I've spent a little while reading up on the many entities the galaxy can spawn and have tried to divvy-up every single resource with an icon (more on those without, in spoiler at the bottom) in to the game. Here is a little spreadsheet of the 19 resources i'm definitely planning to re-add, where they'll spawn (around what types of bodies) & where in the galaxy you can find them:

Spoiler: Notes on the above spreadsheet

Notes:
On resource rarity and distribution:

• Deposit spawn around - me picking what worlds are "valid" places for these to appear.
• spawns where in galaxy - me picking whether resources spawn in certain places or not.
• Resource clusters (as in my earlier post) are chunks of the galaxy (index = 0,1,2,3,4,5) that take up 15%-20% of the galaxy each. They seem to be randomly shuffled around from game to game too.
  • If a resource spawns in resource cluster 0,2,4, it can appear in roughly half of the galaxy (provided other conditions are met, like a valid world, and the game rolls a "1" rather than a "0" when weighting to spawn drops or not.
• A resource spawning in a single cluster will be very rare, it wont be found in 80% of the galaxy, further weighted by sub-conditions (e.g. only in nebulae or gas giants - I could even do only around gas giants IN nebulae, for super rarity).

"higher tier" resources:

• The grey rows at the bottom are just me thinking about what mechanics these resources could play off. I'm planning for only handfuls to spawn and in deposit sizes of 1-5 (5 being less rare) for things marked as rare/very rare in 4th column.
  • A planet-unique Teldar refinery could transform a deposit of 1 teldar crystal (which would have its own effect) and some minerals in to 10 teldar dust(or 10 teldar munitions) a month, which could have separate effects/uses,
  • and whilst teldar crystals would be un-tradable, teldar dust or munitions could be traded (you dont give up your source lol).
  • The AI could be weighted to build Teldar refineries if it has any Teldar crystal in its borders, and an event (maybe?) could fire to destroy them if it loses a deposit. It seems weights and a careful use of script-limits are all that are needed to make AIs pick buildings. And because these are rare buildings I can set exceptional limits (you always want a Teldar refinery if you can have one, and you can only have one, so it's a very easy decision vs deciding how many Alloy foundries you can support).

.

My next steps:
I'll be adding new effects to resources in some cases (trying to "mostly" stay close to their original implementation), mostly alternating between Edicts/planetary decisions, starbase modules & planet buildings (refineries for resources or planet-unique buildings).

• E.g. Engos Vapour used to give +5% habitability if you held even 1 unit of it in your treasury. This code is gone from the game as far as I can tell, but:
  • I'll add an "Engos Vapour Disseminator" a planet-unique building (costing say 0.5 engos a month) that increases habitability by Y% on a world (think of it like a mini-terraformer) - terraforming will also be a more expensive and long-term process so a building like this will be a big boon early on (or go GM/bots/Refugees).
  • And maybe an "Engos treatment" timed edict increasing army HP/defense (sort of like Bacta tanks from star wars).
• I'm planning to add a series of 6 starbase-unique "Master" modules that run on 6-7 of the above rare special resources (the 3 ores, 2-3 crystals and a gas).
  • E.g. "Neutronium Warforge" (consumes 1 neutronium per month, cannot be built alongside other Master modules) warships built from this starbase have the "Neutronium Plating" modifier +100% armor but -40% Sublight speed.
  • E.g. "Yurantic Energy Labs": All Warships built from shipyards at this starbase have the "Yurantic components" modifier and deal 50% more Energy Damage but have 25% less shields. [mutually exclusive with other "master" modules]
  • This is somewhat similar to how starbases worked pre 2.0, though I'm jacking up the values a lot as there's been a lot of "powercreep" since then & these are pretty damn rare resources (or they will be when I'm done).
    • I might look in to how mods like Guiliman add coloured text, it'd be cool to see, say blue named ships and know you're fighting Yurantic-enhanced ships, or red-named ships (in the fleet list) and know youre fighting Neutronium-plated enemies etc. But that's for later.

Other random things i've found whilst file-diving:

Aldar Crystals

• So there are a bunch of references to other resources scattered in localisation strings, but the important two, for now (as they actually have icons, too) are Helium-3 and Aldar.
• Aldar I think was in the game but for the life of me I cant remember it, anyway some googling tells me it was either used to give +15% explosive damage (likely as 2 other crystal resources did kinetics/energy dmg) or it was going to be used for psionic amplification, like zro.

Spoiler: Helium 3 (Cut prior to Stellaris Launch)... and my thoughts on a "limited" fuel economy

Helium-3 (Cut prior to launch version)

• Helium 3 was cut before release of the game, It's a common-enough isotope of one of the most abundant elements in the universe so they probably just went with a more generic "energy" for simplicity.
• That Said, I'm wondering if it might be interesting to
  1. Replace all starbase & ship "energy credit" maintenance costs with Helium-3 maintenance costs (to emulate H3 as starship fuel)
  2. Then have H-3 spawn in large regular concentrated lumps around the galaxy.
     • E.g deposits of 10,20,30 but only 1-2 per star-cluster, effectively making that the "local fuel dump".
  3. Then add a deficit function that reduces sublight speed by 90% "emergency fuel" shields by 100% "Brown outs" and weapon fire-rate by 100% "emergency power" (random numbers)
     • It would effectively add a very soft form of fuel/logistics to the game, encouraging you to protect your H3 Fuel reserves or risk starving your ships of power.
     • The AI would also need to weight "Fuel Systems" incredibly highly - theoretically doable as it already weights chokepoints highly, will need to do more reading on this.
     • But it might also tank the AI's competitiveness [even more]. hard to say.... I could mod the difficulty settings to give AIs helium 3 also lol.

This might be an interesting project as it's own sub-mod down the line, and there's a lot of problems to solve (could I add a helium 3 fuel counter to fleets?) but it's too radical an idea this current project I think.

Spoiler: TABLE - various cut resources (never made it ingame) also missing Icons.

Other references to resources that were cut pre-launch or they decided not to go with for whatever reason (most of these are in older game build's files).

sr_mirium: "Mirium Ore"

sr_mirium_desc: "This rare ore is too brittle to be used in an alloy, but if properly made mirium projectiles have unmatched armor piercing potential."

sr_alien_test_subjects: "Alien Test Subjects" sr_alien_test_subjects_desc: "The genetic makeup of these non-sentient alien creatures make them particularly useful as test subjects in experiments involving a variety of domestic products and medicines."

sr_xaldor: "Xaldor Gemstones"

sr_xaldor_desc: "These rare gems emit an ethereal glow that changes color depending on the mood of whoever is holding them. The glow becomes especially intense in the vicinity of psionically-gifted individuals."

sr_sactajenian: "Sactajenian Spice"

sr_sactajenian_desc: "A psychoactive compound that imbues users with a limited psionic connection to one another. This effect somewhat diminishes free will and individual mental capacity, but the new 'group mind' can perform tasks as a single organism for a limited time."

sr_zarbadoccan: "Zarbadoccan Mold"

sr_zarbadoccan_desc: "A powerful stimulant that temporarily gifts most users with a sense of increased creativity or introspective emotional awareness. This kind of 'soul-searching' is frowned upon by some cultures as being counter-productive."

sr_carnian: "Carnian Pearls"

sr_carnian_desc: "These pearls are often used in jewelry and their brilliant white metallic luster is quite eye-catching, which may explain why they are so popular among avian species."

sr_kobor: "Kobor Wood"

sr_kobor_desc: "Kobor trees can be found on many different worlds, and their seeds were likely spread deliberately by someone long ago. The wood from these trees is light, extremely durable and easy to work with. Arthropods in particular favor it as a building material."

As you can see there's a bunch of extra defined special resources (sr_NAME) in some older files.
What really interests me is the phrases like "they are so popular among avian species." & "Arthropods in particular favor it as a building material." This suggests that the original/internal design for species phenotypes was far more stratified than what we have today (lithoids re-kindled that a little bit). It's also now got me thinking about other potential modifiers that could be applied.

I wont bother adding these weirder resources for now as I'm going to focus on resources that were removed, not ones that never became playable, for now. But, this might be an interesting way to buff, say megacorps, by letting them make/sell goods appealing to certain phenotypes (the classes species are grouped into - avians, humanoids, 'whatever they'll call the next story-pack aliens' etc) or gifting certain rare Luxury "phenotype-resources" to gain increased trust growth (sort of like china loaning out pandas).

 

[Pancakelord]

What i miss is a unique infrastructure for capital worlds. Do you remember the galactic stock exchange only buildable on your empires capital? Or the ministry of culture which buffed all culture output in your empire? Another thing that is gone since 2.2...

it's not gone? There are quite a few planet unique buildings, federations added an embassy one too.
The unique buildings come pretty damn late though, so most of the game your planets do look identical I agree. There arent any "secor capital" unique buildings either, like junior versions from the homeworld.

I do wish each planet specialisation would do what resource & thrall worlds do - swap out the default admin building with something a bit more interesting. if only to add a modicum more flavour to planets.

Daily management and crime enforcement can not be done from a planet light years away. The abstract form of unity for example can only be collected locally, because every world in my empire which is loyal to me is "united", like it was in pre 2.6 (Federations).

I dont think crime should be stuck at a planet level IMO, it should be handled alongside piracy at a system-wide level.
So if you have a really shitty planet that adds to system-wide "crime" this can then spawn pirates (rather than just unprotected Trade value which is stupid) - or increase crime in adjacent systems, so crime (& Piracy) would be able to even spread across empire borders, I might choose to leave my agri-world as the galactic hub of space-cocaine deals if it weakens my rival's urban world a few systems away, leading to instability and riots (Before I swoop in to steal it).

And (this is the ONE time anyone will ever hear me voice support for pop demotion, which should be removed from Specialists/rulers) - Criminals should have (RND) 360-540 days of pop demotion (demoting directly to "unemployed workers").

• Right now criminals insta-vanish when crime dies, this makes criminal syndicates awful to play (doubly so as it's very event driven and crime events die off fast without criminals around), at least this way it means crime will persist and linger for a little while rather than dying overnight Judge Dredd Style.