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Stellaris Dev Diary #260 - Summer Culture

Hey folks, and I hope everyone is having a fantastic summer/winter break (depending on your hemisphere). I’ve found some time between my other summer experiments and the work we’re doing for 3.5 “Fornax” to dive into the feedback/suggestions lists. Since Eladrin is still away, you’re getting another sneak preview of what I’ve been working on.

One of the frequent requests from the Unity rework that was part of the 3.3 “Libra” patch earlier this year was for us to return Culture Workers to the game. Currently, they exist only as jobs provided by some event buildings, but many in the Community felt we removed some flavor/roleplay aspect when we removed them.

Over summer, I’ve been experimenting with potentially adding them back in. For context, in the current version of the game Culture Workers are a Specialist job that belongs to their own economic category, produce 3 Unity and 3 Society Research with an upkeep of 2 Consumer Goods.

Let’s have a look at an Autochthon Monument constructed by the UNE shortly after the start of the game.

1658126587496.png

Showing the Culture Workers with some unusual modifiers

To start with, the monument is retaining the Unity from Jobs modifier and the passive Unity production per Ascension Perk, but additionally provides 2/4/6 Culture Worker jobs per tier of the monument. The same applies to the Corporate version of the monument.

The sharp-eyed might notice that there’s some odd modifiers being given: Worker Happiness? Pop Upkeep Reduction? What, might you ask, has happened?

In this experiment, we’re looking at Culture Workers having an output that depends on the Ethics of your empire. After all, what influences your culture the most if not your ethics?

These are the ethics-based modifiers we’re currently testing and whether their effects are Empire-wide or only affecting the planet that the building has been constructed on:
  • Materialist: +2 Amenities (Planet)
  • Spiritualist: -2.5% Amenity Usage (Planet)
  • Militarist: +1 Naval Capacity (Empire)
  • Pacifist: -2.5% Crime (Planet)
  • Egalitarian: +2.5% Worker Happiness (Planet)
  • Authoritarian: +5 Ruler Political Power (Planet)
  • Xenophobe: +3 Edict Fund (Empire)
  • Xenophile: -2.5% Pop Upkeep (Planet)

These modifiers are provided by both Culture Workers and Death Chroniclers (as their job-swap with the Memorialist civic) and are doubled in the case of Fanatic ethics. They are intended to be a small buff/addition to the job, with the Unity production from both the jobs and the building being the primary draw.

Additionally, Culture Workers/Death Chroniclers now belong in the Administrator category, in the Culture Worker sub-category meaning they’ll benefit from multiplicative bonuses to Administrator output (such as those provided by the Unification or Ecclesiastical planetary designations). They produce a base of 4 Unity and +10% Government Ethics Attraction (+2.5% Stability for Death Chroniclers) with 3 Consumer Goods upkeep.

There’s also been some discussion around having Resort Worlds add Culture Workers, and if I find time I’ll be looking into that as well.

To ensure that hive-minds and machine intelligences don’t feel left out, Sensorium/Simulation Sites now provide 2/4/6 Evaluator jobs per tier of the building. These now provide 4 Unity and 3 Amenities in exchange for an upkeep of 2 Energy.

1658126626613.png

A hive-mind sensorium site providing 2 evaluator jobs.

Chronicle Drones provide the same Unity and Amenities output but give an additional +2.5% Stability in exchange for slightly higher upkeep (and that upkeep being based off of the upkeep cost of the pop working the job). Like their individualist equivalents, these jobs both now belong to the Evaluator sub-category of the Administrators jobs.

I’m not sure if we’ll have another surprise dev diary over summer, but our normal schedule should resume once Eladrin’s back and we’ll start delving into 3.5. Regardless I’ll be keeping a close eye on this thread for your thoughts, suggestions and any feedback.
 
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By the same metric while I do love myself some Trade Builds I think +TV from lifestyle is kinda bad as it mostly works in combination with egalitarian.

Mathematically the best trade from lifestyle income to upkeep ratio is basic subsistence (though it can't be done on your main species and comes with a total -15% happiness penalty).
If you additionally have gospel of the masses (which adds a flat +0.33 per spiritual pop) you can easily get to self-sustaining living standards.
 
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We literally just got rid of sprawl limit modifiers!!!

Also I think unity + edict fund should be a bureaucrat thing because they're bureaucrats and upholding edicts is what bureaucrats do. Bureaucrats need more intuitive flavour as is.
That's why I proposed it in small amount for arguably worst ethos, which is hampered by war limitation. So while Pacifist have issues with expanding, they will be stronger at the same empire sizes compared to other empires.
Trade bonus too often seem like while it still does something, that something isn't what the player is focusing on by choosing pacifist. I would rather have Culture Workers work in tandem of base ethos bonuses in regard to unity instead of being heavily reliant on ethos combination or picking certain Civics.
 
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That's why I proposed it in small amount for arguably worst ethos, which is hampered by war limitation. So while Pacifist have issues with expanding, they will be stronger at the same empire sizes compared to other empires.
Trade bonus too often seem like while it still does something, that something isn't what the player is focusing on by choosing pacifist. I would rather have Culture Workers work in tandem of base ethos bonuses in regard to unity instead of being heavily reliant on ethos combination or picking certain Civics.
It's a slippery slope! We need to stand firm against the bureaucrat menace!

A sprawl reduction would be absolutely fine though. Or a pop growth boost - they're not exactly making war.

Edit: what about a reduction in the points needed to grow a pop??
 
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After reading responses again I think I get your points. I have nothing against different forms as long as the result is similar. % sprawl reduction seems like a way to go.

Also is it only me or Spiritualist are a getting kicked down in comparison to materialist like all the time? I am happy with all bonuses beside theirs.
 
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That's why I proposed it in small amount for arguably worst ethos, which is hampered by war limitation. So while Pacifist have issues with expanding, they will be stronger at the same empire sizes compared to other empires.
Trade bonus too often seem like while it still does something, that something isn't what the player is focusing on by choosing pacifist. I would rather have Culture Workers work in tandem of base ethos bonuses in regard to unity instead of being heavily reliant on ethos combination or picking certain Civics.
But pacifist is not the worst ethic.

The worst one is specifically fanatic pacifist, regular pacifist is fine, arguable stronger than a lot of ethic actually.

And even then you can circumvent the restrict on fanatic pacifist but it is too annoying to worth it imo.
 
  • Materialist: +2 Amenities (Planet)
  • Spiritualist: -2.5% Amenity Usage (Planet)

Doesn't seem like a very interesting design when one side of the spectrum is simply "get more X" and the other is "need less X". Maybe instead Materialists could have some bonus indirectly related to science (e.g. +1 amenities per 10 science produced on planet).
 
  • Materialist: +2 Amenities (Planet)
  • Spiritualist: -2.5% Amenity Usage (Planet)

Doesn't seem like a very interesting design when one side of the spectrum is simply "get more X" and the other is "need less X". Maybe instead Materialists could have some bonus indirectly related to science (e.g. +1 amenities per 10 science produced on planet).
I think it would be pretty neat if there was synchronicity along each axis, but only if they're both good.
These modifiers... ...are doubled in the case of Fanatic ethics.
I've been thinking about this and it seems like an unnecessary potential source of balance issues. Cost reductions get more valuable the more you have while output bonuses get less valuable the more you have. Going from -2.5% × 6 to -5% × 6 is a heck of a better jump than 2.5% × 6 to 5% × 6, and both jumps are more likely to cause edge cases.

What if being Fanatic instead got you a generic "Fanatic" bonus? Say a further increase in governing ethics attraction or a boost to base unity?
 
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What if being Fanatic instead got you a generic "Fanatic" bonus? Say a further increase in governing ethics attraction or a boost to base unity?
Interesting concept. Might be worth looking into. Having higher governing ethics attraction makes a lot of sense for fanatics / ideological puritans.

Personally, i like the intensified bonuses more, but you are making a valid point about +x%/+2x% bonuses are often significantly different in value than -x%/-2x%. After all -x% gets more valuable the closer you get to a total of 0% while +x% can turn into mere drops in the ocean in late game.
 
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About the monument series of buildings - with the suggested changes, they would boost Unity in three different ways:
  • +5% bonus to Unity production, per building level
  • +1 Unity per Ascension Perk, per building level
  • +2 Unity jobs (Culture Workers), per building level
Perhaps it is just me, but this combination feels a bit like Unity overkill. More so when factoring in that the GEA bonus of the jobs added will mean greater Faction Unity output. This could risk making the (nominally) ordinary Unity jobs an even less common sight, as the monument buildings would reduce the need for them, from no less than four directions at the same time.

Are all the Unity benefits really necessary if Culture Workers are coming back as a primarily Unity-focused job, with a set of three extra variable bonuses? Perhaps Culture Workers and monuments could instead be more like Medical Workers and clinics? They are already similar in that they are added by planet-unique buildings.
  • The buildings that add Medical Worker jobs do not add any special bonuses.
  • Medical Worker is an Amenities job, but the output is half that of the main Amenities job (Entertainer).
  • The "gimmick" of the Medical Worker job is instead the set of 3 extra bonuses.
Applying those design principles from Medical Workers to Culture Workers would mean removing the current monument building bonuses, setting the Culture Worker output of Unity to 2, and having 3 modifier bonuses be the distinguishing benefit of the job.



For instance:
  • One bonus could be the suggested bonus to governing ethics attraction, which would always be relevant and useful (though preferably reduced to 5% per Culture Worker, and the baseline GEA bonus could also be reduced for this to be properly balanced and avoid GEA power creep).
  • One bonus could be a job-specific output bonus, or job-specific Happiness bonus, determined by the planet designation (which would ensure that it will be a relevant and useful bonus).
  • The third bonus could be determined by tradition trees (either the first one picked or an option), or government authority type, or something else.
They are there to produce unity, I think if someone wants to make more unity and be able to finish trees faster there should be more building options rather than one or two.
 
They are there to produce unity, I think if someone wants to make more unity and be able to finish trees faster there should be more building options rather than one or two.
Right but... why? Why are Culture Workers AND Bureaucrats primary function to produce Unity? Why are there three total buildings that are Unity generation multipliers (Monument line, Auto-curating Vault, and Ministry of Culture)? You say "if someone wants more unity there should be more building options than one or two." Like... that's not true of literally any other resource in the game. Everything either has exactly one building (Minerals), or two buildings that stack (Alloys get forges and Ministry of Production). More buildings isn't more options, it's more mandatory buildings you have to build all on the same planet to optimize your output.
 
Right but... why? Why are Culture Workers AND Bureaucrats primary function to produce Unity? Why are there three total buildings that are Unity generation multipliers (Monument line, Auto-curating Vault, and Ministry of Culture)? You say "if someone wants more unity there should be more building options than one or two." Like... that's not true of literally any other resource in the game. Everything either has exactly one building (Minerals), or two buildings that stack (Alloys get forges and Ministry of Production). More buildings isn't more options, it's more mandatory buildings you have to build all on the same planet to optimize your output.
It feels right to me to have multiple unity+thing and amenity+thing buildings because unity and amenities are much more abstract concepts than alloys or energy. "I get my alloys from alloy plants" doesn't say much about my empire, but how I keep my citizen content (or just pacified) says a lot more. Similarly what gives my people a sense of unity says a lot about them as a people. So to me unity just being a "build this many Bureaucrats" setup like it cheapens the concept in a way that "Build this many mineral plants" doesn't for minerals.

Also as an aside the things that generate mineral districts are pretty variable and some of them are quite flavourful even if the districts themselves are all identical. You can also only build mineral plants where the game tells you you can, while you can slap your unity planets pretty much anywhere that isn't good enough for something else.

For me the problem is that Bureaucrats just do unity and also produce the most unity. Which says weird things about what unity is.

edit to add: Also while it does make a lot of sense that most of your research comes from dedicated scientists but I'd love it if there were more "- and also some research" jobs, especially for engineering.
 
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Hey folks, and I hope everyone is having a fantastic summer/winter break (depending on your hemisphere). I’ve found some time between my other summer experiments and the work we’re doing for 3.5 “Fornax” to dive into the feedback/suggestions lists. Since Eladrin is still away, you’re getting another sneak preview of what I’ve been working on.

One of the frequent requests from the Unity rework that was part of the 3.3 “Libra” patch earlier this year was for us to return Culture Workers to the game. Currently, they exist only as jobs provided by some event buildings, but many in the Community felt we removed some flavor/roleplay aspect when we removed them.

Over summer, I’ve been experimenting with potentially adding them back in. For context, in the current version of the game Culture Workers are a Specialist job that belongs to their own economic category, produce 3 Unity and 3 Society Research with an upkeep of 2 Consumer Goods.

Let’s have a look at an Autochthon Monument constructed by the UNE shortly after the start of the game.

View attachment 861579
Showing the Culture Workers with some unusual modifiers

To start with, the monument is retaining the Unity from Jobs modifier and the passive Unity production per Ascension Perk, but additionally provides 2/4/6 Culture Worker jobs per tier of the monument. The same applies to the Corporate version of the monument.

The sharp-eyed might notice that there’s some odd modifiers being given: Worker Happiness? Pop Upkeep Reduction? What, might you ask, has happened?

In this experiment, we’re looking at Culture Workers having an output that depends on the Ethics of your empire. After all, what influences your culture the most if not your ethics?

These are the ethics-based modifiers we’re currently testing and whether their effects are Empire-wide or only affecting the planet that the building has been constructed on:
  • Materialist: +2 Amenities (Planet)
  • Spiritualist: -2.5% Amenity Usage (Planet)
  • Militarist: +1 Naval Capacity (Empire)
  • Pacifist: -2.5% Crime (Planet)
  • Egalitarian: +2.5% Worker Happiness (Planet)
  • Authoritarian: +5 Ruler Political Power (Planet)
  • Xenophobe: +3 Edict Fund (Empire)
  • Xenophile: -2.5% Pop Upkeep (Planet)

These modifiers are provided by both Culture Workers and Death Chroniclers (as their job-swap with the Memorialist civic) and are doubled in the case of Fanatic ethics. They are intended to be a small buff/addition to the job, with the Unity production from both the jobs and the building being the primary draw.

Additionally, Culture Workers/Death Chroniclers now belong in the Administrator category, in the Culture Worker sub-category meaning they’ll benefit from multiplicative bonuses to Administrator output (such as those provided by the Unification or Ecclesiastical planetary designations). They produce a base of 4 Unity and +10% Government Ethics Attraction (+2.5% Stability for Death Chroniclers) with 3 Consumer Goods upkeep.

There’s also been some discussion around having Resort Worlds add Culture Workers, and if I find time I’ll be looking into that as well.

To ensure that hive-minds and machine intelligences don’t feel left out, Sensorium/Simulation Sites now provide 2/4/6 Evaluator jobs per tier of the building. These now provide 4 Unity and 3 Amenities in exchange for an upkeep of 2 Energy.

View attachment 861580
A hive-mind sensorium site providing 2 evaluator jobs.

Chronicle Drones provide the same Unity and Amenities output but give an additional +2.5% Stability in exchange for slightly higher upkeep (and that upkeep being based off of the upkeep cost of the pop working the job). Like their individualist equivalents, these jobs both now belong to the Evaluator sub-category of the Administrators jobs.

I’m not sure if we’ll have another surprise dev diary over summer, but our normal schedule should resume once Eladrin’s back and we’ll start delving into 3.5. Regardless I’ll be keeping a close eye on this thread for your thoughts, suggestions and any feedback.
Why i always have feeling that regular empires get apples, meast and wine while hive gestalt only bread.
Like, hive have these resources from jobs, ok, but dont get any if these cool modifiers. Overall you will not build this building on every planet but just on one who us producing unity.
Ehh i have have feeling that hive minds needs some flavor
 
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