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Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 17th of January 2023 - Emperor of China

Hey everyone, happy new year and I hope 2023 grants you health, growth and lots of love. Let’s take a look at the new content we have prepared for China! We started thinking about this one year ago, while working on the 1.33 update, but now the time has come for it!

Before we begin, the content you will see here is by no means finalized, as always your feedback is greatly appreciated and cherished!

Playing Europa Universalis is all about building up your nation, growing and expanding your borders. It’s all about the struggles and the thrills of each conquest, fighting at the edge of bankruptcy or measuring your moves carefully. However, Ming does not really suffer from these issues at the hands of a player due to the fact that it starts as the nation with the highest development and strongest economy in 1444 and until 1.35 it was regarded as a fairly relaxing experience for most players. Surely there are some minor obstacles early on, but in general the playthrough was not at all challenging and thus many players steered away from playing the Great Ming, despite it having a not-insubstantial amount of flavor in the form of events, factions and later the Mandate of Heaven mechanic, the latter of which ended up being a bit of a pain to manage. All this unrealized potential is what we seek to tackle by giving the Ming, its offshoot Chinese Warlords as well as the Jurchen tribes and the Qing lots of new missions, events and more!

The Ming will see many new additions, mechanics and cool-stuff-in-general with 1.35:
  • A brand new, fully-fleshed out mission tree
  • Accompanied by a new Estate - the Eunuchs
  • New tough challenges as you struggle to curb the influence of the Eunuchs and prevent your (historical) collapse
  • Over a dozen new Reforms that interact with and are complemented by various missions (yes we tweaked the gain and loss of Mandate)
  • New Decrees that interact with and are complemented by various missions
  • New Flavor events integrated in the mission tree - as well as independent from it
  • Deep modability and new functions added to the Mandate mechanic
  • A new great project that spans several provinces

So let’s take a look at the tree!


mingtreefull.png

(Note; Icons are a WIP!)​

The Ming historically were rulers of unprecedented magnanimity, wealth and the ambition to match their huge domain. However, in 1444 the starting ruler sadly fell short to live up to his predecessor’s abilities, represented in the game as a 1/1/1. The Great Ming Empire lies stretched and continuously tormented by hordes in the North and West, waning influence with its tributaries in the South and no say in the affairs of Japan. During the game, you may also suffer from floods and earthquakes which historically kickstarted (and ended) the Ming Dynasty and will rapidly corrode the growth of the Mandate. Their impact can be alleviated by constructing certain buildings and completing a couple relevant missions.

The starting situation of the Great Ming is represented and explained in a start-up event:
startingmingevent.png

Note; missions, art and descriptions are not final!​
Autonomy in the provinces of the Empire will increase, at a minimum of +25%. This autonomy will persist and you will have the ability to reduce and eventually eradicate it, as you reign in the various external and internal elements that threaten the Empire. This will not be an easy task.

The second obstacle, and arguably the one that gave my colleagues the biggest pain to deal with, is the Eunuchs Estate. A powerful body of advisors near the Emperor who will gain and lose power depending on the state of internal affairs as well as the abilities of the Emperor himself.


Eunuchs will offer a vast array of very powerful Estate privileges, most of which will scale with their internal power in the form of crown land controlled as shown below:

eunuchs1.png

Note; Yes, they will start with nearly 60% crown land while you will start with only 15% to better represent the grip of power between the starting ruler of the Ming and his Eunuchs.

eunuchprivileges.png

Note; Icons are a work in progress!
You won’t be able to reform your country anywhere near as fast if you do it by crushing the influence of the Eunuchs, BUT if you do lean on them too much, the accumulated cost of fighting their inevitable corruption will become overbearing, difficult to manage and you will collapse. It is up to the player to strike the perfect balance between manipulating this double-edged sword.

Moreover, I took the liberty to give this new Estate a unique disaster, unlike other Estates’ similar predicaments. This one will hurt a lot more and its solution is considerably harsher than other Estate Disasters. When other Estate Disasters require you to lower influence and enact a national decision in order to end the disaster, the Eunuch disaster will have its decision fundamentally altered. Much like other estates, it will end when the reigning estate’s influence falls low enough. However, every time you enact the national decision available during the disaster, Eunuchs will:
  • Lose 1 random privilege so as to lower their influence
  • Spawn a special large stack of rebels, every province this stack of rebels sieges will lower your mandate considerably
  • cost you stability (which is required to enact this decision)

1673866312777.png



This loop continues until the estate’s influence is either low enough or they have no privileges, so you best steer clear from the disaster!
You will also be able to interact with the estate via missions and events, unlock new privileges (that do not cost yearly corruption) etc.
Before we move on, be aware that the AI is instructed as to how it will utilize and play around with the Yearly Corruption but Ming still explodes relatively frequently as it used to!
Let’s take a look at some of the new missions, their requirements and more importantly, their rewards!

1673866375979.png

The idea behind Ming, given that it starts at the size it does, is that every single external mission (without exceptions) will offer a diplomatic path / solution. You are already plenty big and if you don’t want to conquer directly (or even indirectly in most cases) you will not be forced to do so!

Something I wanted to implement based on feedback from 1.34 is this new “Event Insight”, a small summary of what the event is about and what its reward alludes to so as to give you some info before clicking it.
Before we move away from this mission tree, I should note that the second half of it, while largely inspired and based on the labors of Ming Emperors, is available to any Chinese Warlord who takes up the Mandate of Heaven, more details on that further down.
As mentioned earlier, 1.35 will introduce vast changes to the Mandate, so let’s tackle some of the biggest ones here:

1673866503220.png

(Note; W I P)
The Mandate now houses over 10 new Reforms inspired and heavily based upon actual reforms between the 15th and 19th century that the game covers.

  • Most of the new reforms can be completed at random order
  • Some are unlocked via the mission tree (that is common with the Chinese Warlords)
  • 2 of them are mutually exclusive with each other
  • Some may require a certain number of reforms passed (yay modability!)
  • Some require the country to move in a certain direction ( idea groups having been picked with alternative requirement, certain missions completed etc )
  • (Nearly) Every reform now impacts both the Emperor and their subjects, both tributaries and non-tributaries.
  • To account for the heightened number of reforms (and decrees) we increased the rate of Mandate growth and decay


We wanted to explore interesting rewards with the Mandate so we took the liberty and added new and interesting bonuses to some of the reforms, such as the ability to grant New Coordinator Offices, which work much like Holy Orders: The Buzhengshi, Anchasi and Du Si:

1673866699567.png

(Note; WIP)
Moving on, new Decrees were also added as we can see in the picture above.
Some of my favorites:
decree1.png

1673866740672.png
decree2.png


As with reforms, I wanted decrees to play an integral part in the gameplay around missions and events. So, decrees:
  • May now be required to be active by some missions
  • Will have their bonuses altered or increased by some missions
  • May themselves be requirements for certain reforms and vice versa

All these new additions are fully scripted and we very much look forward to seeing what you come up with!

1673866842346.png

As I mentioned before, the Chinese Warlords, Jurchen tribes, Manchu and Qing will receive new content.

The various new Chinese trees for Qing-related tags are split into 3 branches

  • The unique content of a nation which varies between Ming- |Qing/Jurchen/Manchu|-Chinese Warlords
  • The Emperor of China branch which deals with internal matters and administrating China
  • A third branch unique to the Qing only



The Chinese Warlords, meaning the releasables of Ming will also have their own little mission tree which will help them unite the Chinese lands and take up the Mandate of Heaven, which will then unlock the ‘Emperor of China mid-section of their tree (the bottom second part of the Ming tree):
Warlord tree.png

The missions are partially dynamic in terms of their requirements/rewards based on your capital's location

warlordreward2.png
warlordreward1.png


The Jurchen / Manchu will have access to newly redesigned missions that will follow the historical path of the Jianzhou but will be available to all regional tribes:


Screenshot_9.png

From subjugating neighbouring hordes, to knocking on the gates of the Great Ming by publishing the Seven Grievances. Along the way, powerful flavored bonuses, new cool rewards and historical immersion amount to a fun playthrough:

Every choice will have a different impact at the ‘Reforms of Nurhaci’ event later in the game! Nurhaci’s stats are random but heavily weighted to be really really good across the board. As a general he will serve as a 3/6/5/3 with a special new unique General trait inspired by his real life title of ‘Dragon-Tiger’ granting +10% Movement Speed and +10% Cav Combat Ability (more about new traits in a future DD). Lastly, as an advisor, he’s a level 3 Discipline Advisor at -90% of the cost and will also offer a flat 100 Mil Power.

1673867139493.png
laterJINmission.png


Upon taking the Mandate of Heaven you will unlock the Emperor of China part of your mission tree which is common between all of the tags (Ming, releasables etc) upon taking up the Mandate.

Forming Qing will offer brand new and freshly reworked missions. The first branch will be inherited by your tribal days. The second branch is the common ‘Emperor of China’ part and finally the third branch contains missions exclusively available to Qing:

QINGTREE.png

Many of these missions will feature very interesting rewards as shown below:

1673867357514.png

1673867375795.png

1673867379824.png

Some cool rewards of the Emperor of China Branch available to either Ming, Qing or any Warlord with the Mandate:

1673867434598.png

1673867445732.png

1673867451410.png


Thank you so much for taking the time to read through 2023’s first Dev Diary! I hope you are just as excited to delve into the new content as we were while making it! We will be back next week to talk about the new content we have created for… The Ottomans! Cheers!

PS: Special thanks to the Chinese modding community for valuable research sources!

chapel_Ming_DD.png
 

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Last edited by a moderator:
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It's lovely, cuz china was outdated for a long time and fortunately, more stuff will be added for modders to compliment the patch with some cool ideas. I'm worried about AI tbh but we will see how it goes the same thing with balance.
So far in our nightlies Ming survives around 20% of the time. In most cases a resurgent Warlord takes their place and sometimes we even see a Manchu / Qing takeover
 
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While it is nice that Ming gets content which revolves around surviving, it would be nice to have some mechanic tied to larger empires and their colaps.. so it is not just Mingplosion but any empire that gets rly big should have troubles to survive .. as we see irl empire comes and goes and never hold indefinitely...
 
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Are any changes to the Ming factions planned? I've always felt like insted of the Mandate completely disabling them it could instead use them in a different manner (with different modifiers).
My original plans were to include the factions in some capacity but in the end, due to time constraints and design dead-ends etc I decided to instead scrap the factions and have Eunuchs as a far-arching looming threat
 
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It is good to see you improving some of the older trees and content instead of focusing on some of the more obscure nations. I have one question about Ming/Qing: How much content Ming gets that Qing doesn't get? I always find it bit unfortunate if from "maximizing content" POV you are better off picking Qing over Ming.
So you see the top part of Ming's tree ? That is unique to Ming. Warlords have their own missions in the same space. The second part is common for Warlords/Qing/Ming when having the Mandate. Then, Qing gets a unique THIRD part at the bottom, only for them :)
The problem here is: How long does the "Fragmented China" period last? I think having a divided China for 100 years is very immersion-breaking...
Also, it's weird that Manchu-Qing only takeover "sometimes", considering they were the historical outcome. Personally, i'd prefer a 20% Ming survives, 20% a warlord takes over and 60% Qing forms.
I assume it doesn't really last long because taking the Mandate grants access to Territorial Cores on all of China so I can imagine it's not that hard to reunite the majority of the domain, even for an AI.
 
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While it is nice that Ming gets content which revolves around surviving, it would be nice to have some mechanic tied to larger empires and their colaps.. so it is not just Mingplosion but any empire that gets rly big should have troubles to survive .. as we see irl empire comes and goes and never hold indefinitely...
I for one would definitely support an Ottoman Empire that collapses; preferably immediately after failing to take Constantinople.
 
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Great content! One question: will it be a free content, a part of a new DLC, or a part of one/more of the previous DLC's?
 
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Hey everyone, wanted to pop in and read through the last few pages I missed yesterday. I wanted to tackle some interesting points raised as well as a couple of concerns c:
Potosi... Now that's the word I never expected to hear from the China missions.
(Not sure if you know this but I will type it up because I find it interesting) Interestingly, the Spanish Empire - which at the time controlled Potosi, supplied the silver for Ming demands, which was used to enact tax-related reforms (they were not successful and silver lost its value in China if memory serves right) this is reflected in the game.
Is the Celestial Emperor still barred from being the revolution target in the new update?
Yes! Although I would love to see people try to cheese around that :p
@PDX Big Boss Some issue I have noticed with the presented changes:
1, Later Jin is a historical term used by historians to differentiate the Aisingoro Jin and the earlier Wanyan Jin, the former would never actually refer to oneself as such as it degrades its prestige in practice. Renaming the tag as Jin or Great Jin would be more culturally appropriate.
2, I noticed Qing lost their missions to conquer Xinjiang and Vietnam, both historical targets of the ten great campaigns, with the former succeeding and having lasting impact to the defined Chinese border, and was critical for the Qing at the time to consolidate their hold on the mongols.
This is incredible feedback and I am very thankful for this. I will try to look into it once we get to fixing bugs and ironing out these quirks, thank you so much!
Nice to see that the Chinese region is getting extra content.

I have a few questions abt the update.
1. Will there be a new national ideas for the Chinese warlord tags since only Shun, Miao and Dali has unique ideas right now?

(would be nice to at least see the 3 Feudatories of Qing, Tungning/Taiwan (would make a gd maritime / colonial tag) and Xi (which rebelled against Ming just like Shun))

(also minor tags like Qin and Yan might have military national ideas whereas other cultural tags like Jin and Tang would be gd at trading and economic respectively)

2. Can you guys look into some of the existing events for Ming / Chinese emperor since if iirc some of the events for the spread of Catholicism in China has really specific requirements (like European tag needs to control at least 4 provinces in China, because in the old days Taiwan would stay uncolonized until the Europeans showed up) which makes them nearly impossible to fire in single player.

(it was kinda frustrating for me who tried to do a Catholic Ming run once and the event never fired)
(also Portuguese missionaries got to Ming and Japan around the same time historically and but in game it is far more likely to see a Catholic province in Japan than in China)

Edit: Catholic China would make a gd achievement for the new dlc, maybe called "Heavenly Kingdom"
1. This would have been a nice addition but unfortunately no. Ideas take time to make, get right and need a lot of localization.
2. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I will take a crack at it when / if I have the time :)
As for your edit, that sounds cool but it was not in my plans!
hello,I believe that the tasks tree of the Ming Dynasty lack influence on the southwest (Myanmar) region. The influence of the Ming Dynasty on Myanmar was enormous, and it lasted until the decades before the collapse of the Ming Dynasty.1444 Opening time: The Ming Dynasty is carrying out the third battle of conquering Lushuan.I hope to add tasks such as the Luchuan War to reflect the impact of the Ming Dynasty on Myanmar.
The mission tree is not the only way to showcase progress and story-telling in the game, please do not go into the new content thinking it will include every aspect of the history of an Empire that spanned nearly 3 centuries!
@PDX Big Boss Will Yuan have acces to Chinese (Ming) missions if they take Mandate and become EoC? And the last one will Yuan get some unique missions?
Unfortunately no :/
Currently, the AI warlords have access to territorial cores in China too, but they will never unite. You can test it in any game, it mostly happens like this:
In our nightlies they are most often united by a Warlord :D
Also one last thing from Qing missions, is there a mission to conquer Central Asia, or at least part of it @PDX Big Boss as Qing?
Qing goes only as far as Tibet if memory serves right
Any changes to the tributary system? Especially a consistent way to obtain them beyond having a border. Currently, if you start as Ming, you need to conquer outside to expand your influence sphere. Also, will an outsider (like for example Uzbek-Timurid-Mughals-Japan or any other) be able to claim the mandate like before? and will they gain access to the mechanics-missions like a Chinese warlord. Also, will this update have a beta stage?? Will the interactions between Europeans and China change-update or is it out of the scope?
Given that this is the Ming dev diary, I will say this: I chose to respect the -1000 malus *in most cases* I do not want to spoil the surprise but there is a mission for Ming that will put them against some very powerful would-be tributaries, with which Ming does not border!
Is it possible to give the Chinese Warlords an Independent Republic path? Like a Republic of China route.
Unfortunately no but as a player I like this idea and I firmly believe that these interesting paths are what gives the game such replayability
Since it seems that mandate groth is being changed, I suggest that the penalties for having low mandate also be change. My primary concern is that, should Ming take defensive, they can end up with a massive amount of morale, making them difficult to take on even when they're at 0 mandate.
I believe the current maluses for Mandate are fairly well done. However, we may take another look at them to at least make sure we are happy with their current state. We got this!!
 
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Hi, I really love the entire work done here, can some of the missions be made available to the Yuan tag as well? They're a good alternative playthrough for some players and I feel it would be a missed opportunity to not give them at least the same flavour.
 
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Please reconsider your stance on colonization speed and institution spread speed. They are both way too fast (institutions after 1600, colonization always), making the game more like 4X than a historical one.
 
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So everyone who bought the Mandate of Heaven DLC will have to buy this DLC which basically overwrites/expands MoH? Sounds like a DLC for a DLC. I hope PDX isn't going this shady route.
 
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@PDX Big Boss Some issue I have noticed with the presented changes:
1, Later Jin is a historical term used by historians to differentiate the Aisingoro Jin and the earlier Wanyan Jin, the former would never actually refer to oneself as such as it degrades its prestige in practice. Renaming the tag as Jin or Great Jin would be more culturally appropriate.
2, I noticed Qing lost their missions to conquer Xinjiang and Vietnam, both historical targets of the ten great campaigns, with the former succeeding and having lasting impact to the defined Chinese border, and was critical for the Qing at the time to consolidate their hold on the mongols.
 
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