Werewolf CCLIX: The City of Wine and Song

[happycats517]

Yeah, okay, I don’t think I can outplay the JL alone. I surrender.

Not really an outplay situation. Even without the scan, I'm the confirmed priest from Randy's SA and Culann's sorc scan, Sleepy is the GA who gave up the sorc, and aedan helped us tie a wolf and shoot a wolf. The best you could've done was deny MAW and one of us the win. There's too many confirmed players floating around.

 

[Arkasas]

I mean, you guys could've talked to me. I did kind of shoot a wolf!

 

[happycats517]

I mean, you guys could've talked to me. I did kind of shoot a wolf!

In hindsight, yeah. Can't really argue that. I considered it briefly, but honestly my play tanked these last few days because this was a super busy week and I got myself paranoid that we had a vH and you were the only hunter we had seen and killing powers are usually relatively balanced. (Now why didn't I account for Wagon's brutal? See the point about my play tanking.)

 

[MAWofdoom]

I mean, you guys could've talked to me. I did kind of shoot a wolf!

I was fairly confident you were good, but then randy told me to tie you with lief so I assumed grimlock was the priest and didn't question it.

Speaking of, @Team Wombat how exactly did you predict you were getting killed? Did you just assume the spy report was on you?

 

[Ironhide G1]

Final Update:

In the nick of time, the great bard Venti, secretly the Anemo Archon Barbatos disguised in mortal form, managed to deduce that in fact one of the remaining citizens was in fact an evil Fatui agent. Realising his hopeless predicament, the final Fatui agent remaining fled Monstadt, leaving it never to return. As the dust settled and the survivors gathered, the city had been saved- but at what cost? Ah well, you can discuss it over drinks of wine at the Angel's Share tavern tonight.

CaptainGrimlock the Astrologist Fatui Agent of the Fatui Pack (Werewolf with used Sorcerous Powers) capitulates!

(Amber is best girl)

Victors:

happycats517 the wealthy former knight-in-training turned Cardinal of the Church of Favonius (plotter apprentice turned priest)
MAWofdoom the Mondstadt Citizen on the with Gacha luck (formerly blessed villager on the village council)
aedan777 the bard Monstadt Citizen (pathological liar Monstadt Citizen)
Sleepyhead the 5-Star Outrider with a wind-glider and Gacha luck (blessed guardian angel with a used cloak of invisibility)

Thank you all for a wonderful game. Realised some balancing issues later on (and made one or possibly two mistakes), but it actually came down pretty close towards the end! It was a very active game, for which I am grateful, made it a lot better. Hope you all enjoyed it, even in its flaws!

 

[Culann]

I was fairly confident you were good, but then randy told me to tie you with lief so I assumed grimlock was the priest and didn't question it.

Speaking of, @Team Wombat how exactly did you predict you were getting killed? Did you just assume the spy report was on you?

Nah, Happycats was Marty's apprentice. I hit him with my sorcerous scan on night 2 with hopes of grabbing the sorcerer (it was a 50/50 shot between Happycats and Wagon who were posting a lot and around near deadline but I figured Wagon would get himself lynched soon enough). Later, Happycats told me that someone claimed GA I guessed that was probably Sleepy who cloaked. However, I wasn't given Sleepy's name and was kept in the dark about everything. My paranoia about Sleepy and the council for that matter without any information had me guessing what was going on. So when Chefjones flipped seer on top of his tunneling put Sleepy under suspicion again for me. To complicate matters Sleepy's taking credit for Wagon made me question his alignment more since I nearly outed Wagon (Happycats had scanned him) due to how late Capage logging on near deadline. I only backed off when Happycats said something.

I thought that Grimlock may have been part of the behind-the-scenes action (possibly the PL) when he said I was definitely a goodie since the only person who had good reason to believe me was Happycats. Sleepy pegging me for a baddie made me think that he wasn't in contact with Happycats. I'm guessing it was done to keep the wolves guessing to who was cleared and who wasn't and Grim was trying to set me up just in case he was lynched.

I was annoyed when Chefjones flipped seer as I reasoned that any active player who was the seer would have sent a role claim to Capage and that a JL would form and start double clearing players. I suspected the seer was either Liefwarrior or Jackson as both weren't very active. Stupid forums anti-spam protection.

Lame I got hunted the last night, but I did get Ark's alignment right again though wrong on the spy report that was given to me about him. I seriously suck at those things. I'll take guessing Ark's alignment and guessing who the GA was despite the paranoia as a consolation prize.

I can set up a game in a few days unless someone else wants to.

Edit: I forgot how much this game induces paranoia and that snipe voting is a thing. Though, glad I didn't remember the latter.

 

[Arkasas]

I did get Ark's alignment right again

The thing you need to remember is that I am always good, unless I am evil, in which case I am evil. It's difficult to grasp at first, but it will become second nature with time.

 

[Ironhide G1]

Here was the setup for the game. A little too balanced in favour of the villagers. I have a few notes:

-if people hadn't complained about baddie cloaks before the game start I would have given them a pathological liar as well.
-I was specifically told not to have the Sorceror scan for wolves or stop a lynch.
-Made the guild all good so it wouldn't become a killing ground, which is a complaint I had from previous games.
-Last game I did was skewed too much in favour of the baddies, so I attempted to balance it differently
-Culann received x1 spy report for winning the shamvote.
-One more cursed player should have been added.
-I did some last minute adjustments with chilldude having been banned. MAW was originally not blessed and the_hdk not an alderman.

 

[Culann]

Who was the first hunt?

Edit: Heh, guess I wasn’t paying attention.

 

[MAWofdoom]

MAWofdoom the Mondstadt Citizen on the with Gacha luck (formerly blessed villager on the village council)

MAW was originally not blessed

Dang! Hunted night 0 but I somehow managed to survive until the end of the game, and all of that might not have been!

That was a very fun game, so many thanks @Ironhide G1!
Does seem to have been a little too pro-village in setup with two protectors and all that, but the wolves (mainly wombat) did really well, and I very much did not feel confident that game. Being on the council was also fun but kind of stressful.

 

[Culann]

Forgot to say this. Thanks for hosting Ironhide!

 

[Team Wombat]

I was fairly confident you were good, but then randy told me to tie you with lief so I assumed grimlock was the priest and didn't question it.

Speaking of, @Team Wombat how exactly did you predict you were getting killed? Did you just assume the spy report was on you?

The village guild blared the spy report about the robber and speculated for a page about it, which made it obvious what was going to happen. Figured I was a dead man walking, and got much more aggressive before my near certain demise. I would never have lied to Capage about that if I read the rules properly about the possibility of spy powers - figured I was home free with the killing of marty. Didn't realize he picked up a priest apprentice.

I also made a mistake in which I accidentally revealed to Capage by PM that I was in league with Caillean about 5 minutes before deadline. Fortunately, he didn't read it and or didn't pass it on, which was a stroke of luck for team evil.

 

[Team Wombat]

Thank you for hosting, Ironhide.

I have major issues about the setup (which was ridiculously goodie favored - seriously, team evil killed van helsing night 1, lynched the GA day 2, priest night 2, doctor night 3, and lynched the seer day 4, and still never had a chance), most of which I expressed to you in PM. With that said, we appreciate the work that you put into making this game an enjoyable and active one.

Good game, village!

 

[Team Wombat]

And Wombat trying to lynch me and undermining my ability to make cases. Him and Wagon loudly talking about how bad the case on him was led to the votes shifting onto Sleepyhead with their dumb alternative case. Wombat's an influential player, him speaking out against a case, and my ability to make them, is no idle move. If you were a villager, it'd probably be in your interest to acknowledge being hoodwinked by the baddies like that. But I don't think you are.

This is going to get into meta territory, but Wombat's been doing this for a while, degenerating my ability to make cases and undermining my ability to get people lynched. Insisting that I'm always wrong and make bad cases people shouldn't follow. He kept at it this game and took every chance to try to lynch me. No one else seems to have noticed, but if we'd been in a pack together I would not have been ok with him keeping up with it and acting against one of the most important tools a wolf can have in misleading the village.

This kind of gameplay/commentary is more than a little embarrassing. Aedan is a better villager/scanner than me AND a better wolf. I have no problem acknowledging that. A few years ago, madchemist and I had a running power ranking of the best players on the forum; aedan was consistently top 5, and often took the top spot as the best player on the forums.

However, he is not infallible, is a better baddie than goodie, has gotten cases wrong, and can, will, and should get pushback about that, especially when he accuses me falsely of being a wolf, which has happened on multiple occasions. (EURO gets similar pushback from me when he accuses me of being a wolf when I'm not). Recent case, from a recent game, which likely sparked his rant (spoiler alert - he was wrong):

I mean, I can't argue with the logic here, but you are the last person who should be calling me out on this...


Perfectly logical, as ever; wrong, as usual.

You missed one thing in your analysis. I specifically called out chilldude 50 minutes before deadline before my vote on him (see below for link), saw the little green thing indicating that he was online, and jumped to the onclusion that he was dodging my question.


Bottom line: I thought he was lurking, and made a judgment call that he was a possible baddie. Obviously wrong in hindsight, and an egregiously dickish move to pull on a new player, but there was method to my madness.

So much for defense. Now let's turn to actual baddie searching.

Randakar was the 3rd vote on chilldude (third vote on the first day essentially cements players and lynch contenders), didn't respond to the summons both of us got before deadline indicating chilldude was a villager (admittedly, deadline is terrible for him), and I really dislike his vote on Wagonlitz, who is contributing this game and who attempted a voteswitch off two known villagers. I'm parking my vote on randy for now.

Vote randakar

I might add that his obnoxious penchant for calling anyone and everyone morons, idiots, and stupid who even looks at him funny is more than a little grating, especially since he is the best wolf/baddie on these forums and has made fools of many a village.

I've gotten votes all game for being right, it's baffling. Wombat for catching on to Wagon, Lief because I said sleepyhead was not an obvious wolf, and today the moron brigade for having the most active anti-thread action with Wombat and Wagonlitz. Literally the opposite of sense. Arkasas I can write off as being dumb, MAW doesn't seem to be reading my posts, but Happycats absolutely should know better. Consider he both was feeding into the anti-Aedan train yesterday because I wasn't tunneling Wagon with a vote when the thread was full of people sayign he was a clear goodie and took part in the baddie directed Wagon saving effort, I don't see him as a possible goodie.

Unvote ChefJones Vote Happycats

Ok, so I wasn't taking crazy pills when I couldn't understand why people were loudly talking about how Wagon was an obvious goodie and totally right about sleepyhead, they were evil or stupid. We know at least one wolf was openly trying to protect Wagon and discredit the case against him, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were more in that group. So we have the following list of candidates.

Caillean didn't jump on the Sleepyhead wagon, but she did switch off Wagon as it got going and made it easier to save Wagon.

Randy wasn't really engaged, but did jump on the sleepy wagon.

Happycats had made noises about being suspicious of Wagon, but jump on sleepy. Could be hedging.

Alxeu didn't take part in the activity at Day 2's deadline, but he did take up the cause on day 3 of randomly assuming that sleepy was evil, and that therefore Wagon was probably good. Baffling on all levels, smells of wolf knowing what we do of Wombat.

Chefjones also wasn't involved in the day 2 deadline activity, he was even on Wagon actually, but he has been the most vocal since of Sleepy being certain evil. Even after Wagonlitz and Wombat popped up as evil and basically proved that wrong. Evil or a moron.

Lief also wasn't involved in the day 2 deadline activity, but came up the next day to advocate lynching me for saying sleepy was not an obvious wolf.

Culann also was on the "sleepy was an obvious wolf" wagon Day 3...

Hang on, I think I'm just going to be listing every player besides me and Sleepyhead here, aren't I?

Fine, maybe this isn't a useful approach, but I'm still baffled anyone came out of day 2 thinking Sleepy was an obvious wolf for RPing and having a cloak, or that Wagon wasn't a likely baddie for how he was acting. Especially when we know one of the most vocal proponents of both (Wombat) was a wolf.

Also Wagon told me day 2 that he scanned me with priestly powers and I came back as a villager. I elected to ignore this because of how suspicious he was acting in thread, but maybe he did sorc scan me.

Anyways, I'm still suspicious of Caillean for her actions near deadline on day 2, and Wombat saving her doesn't help that (though it is possible he's trying to make us waste time). But I really want to lynch Chefjones for still insisting that sleepyhead's an obvious wolf after the two players who made up the case on sleepy were revealed to be baddies.

Vote Chefjones

This is just ridiculous. We know a baddie was actively and loudly protecting the sorcerer, against an attempt by me to lynch said Sorcerer. This same baddie was casting aspersions against me and trying to get me lynched. And somehow the response out of this is to say that I'm a likely baddie?

We want to talk about someone trying to play both sides, how about you day 2? You kept making comment noting how suspicious and jumpy Wagon was, but you never voted him and instead participated in the effort to save him by lynching Sleepyhead instead.

And the assertion that Wagon probably wasn't in contact with Wombat doesn't make sense. You think Wombat just loudly threw himself out there to defend a massively suspicious player for no reason? I think it makes far more sense to assume that they were in contact.

And as I write this, more morons jump in.



How stupid are you two? How am I some how the most suspicious for trying to lynch the sorcerer and having a cultist try to lynch me. MAW's post in particular is some brain dead drivel totally out of touch with reality. I never have gone after sleepyhead this game, I have been the most active voice saying the case on him was dumb and Wagon was even more suspicious for pushing it. Wombat was trying to kill me too. Because I was on to Wagon, he actively tried to craft a narrative that I was suspicious for going after Wagonlitz.

I am legitimately baffled how any villager can read the game to this point and think that I'm suspicious, let alone the single most suspicious player in the game. I tried to lynch the sorcerer, but a group led by baddies (and including Happycats) saved him for no good reason. And one of the baddies was trying to kill me. How am I at a good lynch? And I also don't think all of you are bad, not enough baddies in the game for that at this point probably, so now I have to divine which of you are baddies and which are just idiots.

 

[aedan777]

This kind of gameplay/commentary is more than a little embarrassing. Aedan is a better villager/scanner than me AND a better wolf. I have no problem acknowledging that. A few years ago, madchemist and I had a running power ranking of the best players on the forum; aedan was consistently top 5, and often took the top spot as the best player on the forums.

However, he is not infallible, is a better baddie than goodie, has gotten cases wrong, and can, will, and should get pushback about that, especially when he accuses me falsely of being a wolf, which has happened on multiple occasions. (EURO gets similar pushback from me when he accuses me of being a wolf when I'm not). Recent case, from a recent game, which likely sparked his rant (spoiler alert - he was wrong):



I might add that his obnoxious penchant for calling anyone and everyone morons, idiots, and stupid who even looks at him funny is more than a little grating, especially since he is the best wolf/baddie on these forums and has made fools of many a village.

My series of posts the other day were not my finest hour. With the game over and some time to reflect I can say it came from a place of insecurity. I've long feared that I'd lost my ability to analyze or make effective cases, in part due to your posts indicating my cases are usually bad and my villager skill exaggerated. Obviously I know I'm not infallible or anything like that, and never was, and my cases can and should receive push back, yet still the sweeping claims about my abilities deepened my doubts, especially when I was wrong (as a villager). That's why this game I did not pursue Wagon on Day 3, even though I considered his behavior incredibly suspicious, I got substantial pushback for it and people started saying he was a likely goodie.

So when he and you both flipped baddies in the night 3 update, I felt vindicated and in a solidly villagerish position. My ego got to my head a bit and so when three people showed up one after another to vote me I lashed out at what I viewed as unjustifiable. I hadn't wanted to drag in my issues regarding your comments about my abilities, but as I discussed events in thread I realized how much of my perception of a major struggle between us came from my particular view rather than actual events in thread. Rather than reflect on this, I doubled down on my perception and dragged it into the thread.

Ultimately I survived the day, but I don't think my ranting did anything to help that.

And yes, on reflection I'm aware of the hypocrisy of my complaints about your comments on my cases and my throwing out of insults at people voting me. I'm sorry to @happycats517 @Arkasas @MAWofdoom @Chefjones and anyone else I insulted this this game. I will strive not to do so going forward.

 

[Team Wombat]

My series of posts the other day were not my finest hour. With the game over and some time to reflect I can say it came from a place of insecurity. I've long feared that I'd lost my ability to analyze or make effective cases, in part due to your posts indicating my cases are usually bad and my villager skill exaggerated. Obviously I know I'm not infallible or anything like that, and never was, and my cases can and should receive push back, yet still the sweeping claims about my abilities deepened my doubts, especially when I was wrong (as a villager). That's why this game I did not pursue Wagon on Day 3, even though I considered his behavior incredibly suspicious, I got substantial pushback for it and people started saying he was a likely goodie.

So when he and you both flipped baddies in the night 3 update, I felt vindicated and in a solidly villagerish position. My ego got to my head a bit and so when three people showed up one after another to vote me I lashed out at what I viewed as unjustifiable. I hadn't wanted to drag in my issues regarding your comments about my abilities, but as I discussed events in thread I realized how much of my perception of a major struggle between us came from my particular view rather than actual events in thread. Rather than reflect on this, I doubled down on my perception and dragged it into the thread.

Ultimately I survived the day, but I don't think my ranting did anything to help that.

And yes, on reflection I'm aware of the hypocrisy of my complaints about your comments on my cases and my throwing out of insults at people voting me. I'm sorry to @happycats517 @Arkasas @MAWofdoom @Chefjones and anyone else I insulted this this game. I will strive not to do so going forward.

Appreciate this post. Want to add that whenever you make a case on anyone in thread in either role, I know that it will always be based in sound logic, and that the case deserves serious attention.

 

[randakar]

I should have insisted on my original proposal - lynch Caillean, scan Arkasas - but Sleepyhead felt otherwise.

Didn't know it would cost me the win.
Caillean didn't either.

 

[randakar]

Thanks for hosting Ironhide, that was fun!

I was specifically told not to have the Sorceror scan for wolves

Dunno who told you that, but that one is debatable and depends a bit on game setup I think.

As.for the cloak, that one simply should not be used at all.

 

[randakar]

I have major issues about the setup (which was ridiculously goodie favored

Yeah, I agree. Too many roles and powers in the game. A common pitfall.

All GM's should realize the best balanced game is a Lite. Don't stray too far from that if.you want balance. The more traits and stuff you give the village the bigger the potential JL you will get the higher the chance of a runaway victory for the village.

 

[Sleepyhead]

GG all!

This was the correct Meowth:

It was a quite frustrating game from my side. Big roll-eyes on the lynch case and people's read on me.

Nearly tore my hair off when my protection of @Capage was not effective. I had sent an order to do so the night before when I activated the cloak, which to me rendered that nightly order invalid. Thus I sent an order to protect Capage again, which was discarded the night he was hunted. This meant that a super JL didn't form, what with Capage only online for like 40 min before deadline. He only let slip to me who happycats were, as well as some info to the council / happycats, which was all we had to work with picking up the pieces afterwards. No claim list. The seer never showed or reached out it seems, so we never had the scan list either. The inactivity of Capage was a blessing in disguise given that apparently no one knew I was set to protect him and failed to deliver.

If not for this we would've probably had a huge village victory with all the powers abound.