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Ringworld needs buff

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When playing an empire with maxed out Trade buffs, x5 Commercial Districts is pretty strong, just "habitat" for the Merchant kings of the empire.

Ringworld start as Megacorp is rediculously strong for maxing out Traditions early, once the Trade Federation trade policy is possible: *huge* EC / CG / Unity production for hardly any upkeep when considering the cost : output ratio on Merchants.

I'll be curious to see if this strategy is still viable after the upcoming rework.
 
Hansatron said:
Yeah, the fact that i can get an Ecu up and move my metalworkers there, and then replace old foundries with labs is why they are so good. All that will change, as industrial districts come about, so Ecus will be left with their +20% resource output, +50% bio growth, and whatever carrying capacity bonuses they have. (But also easier to make since industrial districts will count as urban districts for the decision.)

Ringworld science is far more game breaking than Ecumenopolis alloys are , in my opinion.
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This just shows that science is op.
 
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-Marauder- said:
Partly true, you are however forgetting one important factor. Sheer carrying capacity and numbers. Yes they are convenient, but they also provide raw frigging numbers. A size 25 Ecu could provide you with 250 metallurgists as it stands right now. And that is just from districts. There are a bunch of ways to increase this number further.
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I'm not forgetting that, but you can get that via normal Alloy Forges too. There is nothing about Ecus that can't be gained elsewhere just a little bit less convenient.
Also you first need to have 250 pops on the planet to do that.
However it is 31.25 building slots to do that. It costs more energy and motes. But it is not that much much better.
It is however much easier to manage and gives more room for on those other planets. That's the strength. not its own raw power, but the simple convenience.
Also you will want multiple Ecus/alloy worlds, or a sneaky enemy might deprieve you of it all.



-Marauder- said:
The sheer output and numbers are what makes them so strong. And while yes, they cost a lot. They are still a lot cheaper than Ring Worlds which we're comparing them too here. And not much more expensive than habitats while providing much, much, much more. They simply trounce their direct competition to a degree that isn't funny.

They come earlier, they're easier to make, you can make as many as you want at the same time, and their output as well as carrying capacity is much higher and they provide a population growth bonus to boot.
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IMO that's an issue with the direct competition. Remember when habitats were OP?
Let's buff those again so they are actually useful for more than pop growth. And add some flexibity for ring worlds, so they ar emore than research hubs for most empires.
 
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HugsAndSnuggles said:
You are forgetting time it requires to be filled with city districts and get all blockers cleared up. Can easily take 20 years for larger planets.
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You can clear the blockers while colonizing the planet, and building districts does not take that long especially with the right techs, which usually come fairly early on such as assembly patterns. There's also a bunch of free Relic Worlds you can stumble across making the process even easier.
 
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HugsAndSnuggles said:
You are forgetting time it requires to be filled with city districts and get all blockers cleared up. Can easily take 20 years for larger planets.
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Even if i give You that 20years.
Building 4 ecus at the same time is still chaeper than building 4 ringworlds (assuming you can build 4 of them!), and their avarage build time is equal to 5 years, while 4 RWs with maxed bonus for megastructure build speed is stille MORE than 5 years (avarage when building 4 at the time).

Also, RW allow you to assign 100 jobs, while 10 sized ecu gives 100 jobs and 25 sized ecu gives 250 jobs (buildings not included).
And okay RW maybe is cheaper to maintain, especially agricultural segment that uses 2 motes, where normal planets uses 0 motes to produce food.
But jokes aside. Sheer meintenance is not enough to compare RW to ecu, especially in endgame, where you can afford to have lot of those. This is why im not saying about metallurgist upkeep on ecu, where 250 of them uses 50 motes, and to have that much metallurgists on buildings, you need 31 (31.25) slots which costs 62 motes per month (and 31 building slots = 3 planets / 3 RW segments).

RWs segments should be size 15 at least (300 pops), 25 optimal (500 pops), and have forge (metallurgists(20)) / industrial (metalurgists(10)+artisans(10)) segments
 
-Marauder- said:
You can clear the blockers while colonizing the planet, and building districts does not take that long especially with the right techs, which usually come fairly early on such as assembly patterns.
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Until you get a good amount of surplus resources to build it up (500 minerals per city district add up to quite a sum), and enough tech that you are in danger of getting that perk, colonizing god-for-nothing planets is a waste of effort. Techs and governors are RNG; besides, even with Assembly Patterns and Urban World Designation, a City district will still take 320 days to build. Unless talking tiny planets (which are usually do quite well, when it comes to natural resources), it will take a while to prepare planet for Ecu.

-Marauder- said:
There's also a bunch of free Relic Worlds you can stumble across making the process even easier.
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And there are bunch of (not so) ruined Ring Worlds around, so what? My understanding that it was about building stuff up from scratch.
 
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@Archael90
I'm not saying that Ring Worlds are better, btw. It was for a long time (even before Ecus were a thing) a general conclusion, that unless you manage to acquire (at least a broken) one, getting it is a waste of effort - pretty much like all "true" megasturctures.
 
Archael90 said:
RW needs T5 tech - "Ring world", but to research that tech You need both: T5 tech "Mega-Engineering", and AP "Galactic Wonders" (Perk req. "mega-engineering" tech).
So far wee see that ability to create both are very different, but we dont stop here.
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This is honestly comparing apples to oranges. Arcology Project unlocks precisely ecumenopolei, while mega-enginnering unlocks a whole set of megastructures while GW also gives access to the Dyson Sphere and Matter Decompressor.

And what we know from Nemesis, I wouldn't even be surprised if ecumenopolei become borderline unviable.
 
Eucos need a nerf. And they should become way before ringworlds. Kinda becomming an early-mid game megastructure(Not literally). While ringworlds should be super endgame. And also the ability to make euco ringworlds would be quite nice. What districts would they have? Idk. Mabie just make the districts on the euco ringworlds give more jobs? And add fortress and beurocrattic districts because why not?
 
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To balance eucos make their city districts a bit smaller. Give jobs a bit less aswell. But give them moar districts(fortress, science, strat resource,etc. And while were at it give the ringworld some of these aswell.
 
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Would a mod making ringworlds biger work with gigastructures?
 
Colonizor48 said:
To balance eucos make their city districts a bit smaller. Give jobs a bit less aswell. But give them moar districts(fortress, science, strat resource,etc. And while were at it give the ringworld some of these aswell.
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They are actually already doing this with the next update. 8 jobs instead of 10. But giving them science districts would be a horrible idea.
 
Idea. Why not add the arcology submod of planetary diversity into the game? Adding hive and machine eucemenopoli. But also eco arcologies that make science and burocracy.(Or maybe planetary computing complex from gigastructural engineering) But also fortress arcology.
 
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Tamwin5 said:
They are actually already doing this with the next update. 8 jobs instead of 10. But giving them science districts would be a horrible idea.
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It will not be a horrible idea as long as normal planets will also have science districts, and RWs will have industrial segments
 
Severeal mistakes in the comparison:

1.1. Time to build an ECU should at least in part include the time to fill it with city districts: that alone can take 15-20 years preparation time for a size 25 planet! So make that 20y+ for an ECU
1.2 Time to build a RW can easily be reduced by half, if you find Living Metal, it can be reduced to 40%, which is in about the same range as ECUs. Besides, the first RC section is ready for colonization a lot earlier than that!

2.1 The cost to build an ECU should include the cost to build all those city districts before you can even start building the ECU. For 25 districts that's an additional 12500 minerals!
2.2 The mineral cost of 55K alloys can easlly be reduced to less than 50K minerals: Planet designation to forge planet reduces mineral cost by 20%, and 50-100% bonus to alloys production output isn't hard to achieve,. However, we shouldn't ignore that you need both miners and metallurgists rather than just miners.

3. Most importantly, a single RW provides four habitable sections with room for 600-800 productive pops. That's double as much as even the largest ECUs! Not to mention you get four times as much pop growth and build four districts in parallel whereas on an ECU you need to build one after the other.

Having said that, I use both ECUs and RWs for CGs/Alloys and Research respectively, simply because either is better than a planet or habitat.
 
I don't think Ecumenopolises need to be nerfed but there should be more downsides to them, right now it's really just that they can't produce food. With such a concentration of population maybe they have an added crime rate modifier and increased piracy in the surrounding systems, and additional costs to empire sprawl above and beyond population. I would also expect a higher maintenance cost too. I think this would keep their value but maybe discourage building a lot of them because of the added sprawl and the need to keep more dedicated anti-piracy fleets.

As for Ringworlds I'd essentially do the same thing as mention above with Ecumenopolises by increasing the maintenance a bit and instead of having more crime and piracy get rid of Ringworld habitability so you have to choose what kind of habitat it is when you build it (which makes sense as the builders are going to build it for their population. This would still allow non-native pops to live there but increase the costs associated with them.
 
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More piracy should happen naturally as a result of ecus being a massive node of Trade Value from all the population. More crime would be well-taken (what's a city-planet without a rusting, crime-ridden underbelly?) if crime was more impactful, but it doesn't feel like it would be much of a limitation in the current game.

Honestly though, it's not a matter of strict balance between RWs and ecus, because clearly they both have their adherents. If they're going to coexist, and it's not going to be by RWs being as big compared to ecus as ecus are to regular planets (which would make sense fictionally - it's difficult to describe how wildly out of scale RWs are with everything else - but would not play well at all), then they need to be specialized apart from each other. For some sets of X and Y, if your goal is X, it should make sense to build ecus, and if your goal is Y, it should make sense to build RWs. Otherwise one of them will always come out on top.
 
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