So how will you guys deal with the Yuan being (at least nominally) the overlords of the other khanates?
[MOD] Tianxia: Silk Road Expansion
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So how will you guys deal with the Yuan being (at least nominally) the overlords of the other khanates?
I totally understand now. Personally I think part of the reason Tartaria is the de Jure empire of Mongolia in vanilla is specifically because the rest of the steppe and mongolia is missing and they would probably add in more empires if they did their own china expansion. Of course if you want to be conservative about it I completely understand that too.
Personally I don't mind you guys doing minor adjustments to vanilla areas to synchronise them better with the chinese expansion but that's your own choice to make. You guys were working on mongolia way before the ck2 devs did anyways
They'll probably have them as tributaries in the appropriate start dates. Other than that, it is hard to say since it ties into how we want China to work (beyond what we've already got (or instead of what we've already got, if we figure out something better)), how we want a Mongol China to work (if different from a Chinese China (or Jurchen China, or whatever)) in general, how we want a Mongol China to work with respect towards nomads (that might be related to them or not), and how we want the Mongols to work (if different from vanilla), which are some rather big things we've yet to fully decide on (particularly since some other things have had been (and still are) significantly higher priority).
I'm really enjoying these dev diaries, I can't wait to play this mod!
I have a question, will players be able to create the Kingdom of Tamna in Jeju island?
I have a question, will players be able to create the Kingdom of Tamna in Jeju island?
Tamna is the Jeju name for the one county duchy of Jeju, and independent Korean/Jeju dukes are petty kings, but there currently isn't, and probably won't be, any actual kingdom-tier Kingdom of Jeju/Tamna since the only one-county kingdom in the game is Venice and that's only for republics.
I think red province sholud be part of Shan for better borders and gameplay (connecting Burma and Tibet / separating Dali and Kamarupa). Eventually the blue provinces as part of Kham (like in previous versions). I do not like these Dali borders. I hope that changes are still possible
Dali and Kamarupa don't have a land border (though it is really hard to tell in the screenshots that have been posted, so I understand the confusion), but the red province could definitely be in Kham instead (and did in fact have a comment along the lines of "Should this be in Kham?"). The second province might perhaps be moved as well, but that would almost certainly require some duchy changes in the region and would make the already small de jure of Shan smaller, so I'm not sure about moving that and will need to think a bit more before making up my mind.
Maybe red province can become part o Shan?
I will miss the vast lands of Siberia
I will miss the vast lands of Siberia
Maybe red province can become part o Shan?
I will miss the vast lands of Siberia
The red province already is in Shan. Shan and Ava have rather similar colours, though, so it might be hard to tell.
As for Siberia, we might add something there down the line, but it depends on several things (e.g. how performance is doing when we've done some other things, whether we can find some good sources for provinces and baronies (that shouldn't have Russian names...) in the region (those we had weren't great), and whether it is a priority (since we'd like to add mechanics/flavour in various areas)).
On a completely unrelated note: We'll probably be able to do something with the new Wonder system (see today's dev diary if you've got no idea what I'm talking about), but until we can try things out it is impossible to say what we can do with it, and some seemingly obvious choices might not work well (e.g. unless we can add a Great Wall that actually does impede movement from the north, it might not be particularly worthwhile).
Well, i can help with some of that, like adding baronies, CoAs, and HO. I could probably also learn how to do the cultural buildings. Can I join and help out?
Please PM LumberKing about it. I can't add people to the team, but help would certainly be appreciated.
Things are starting to look somewhat more reasonable than they did a while back. All counties have (more or less) proper positions, and about 50 % of all counties (and several higher titles) have got some kind of title history (a lot of it placeholders) that should be correct at least at the top liege level for the Stamford Bridge start (and most of those added so far also have placeholder history for 769 and 867).
A numerical breakdown of the progress towards 3.0.X compatibility:
Since it might be of interest, here's a breakdown of how far we've gotten towards several important sub-goals. Note that this list is non-exhaustive, and that I am not the final authority on when we've got something that's ready for release, whether to the testers or publicly.
For reference, the map expansion consisted of 185 sea zones, 8 lake provinces, 2 (currently 3) wasteland provinces, 44 navigable river provinces, and 816 (currently 815) counties. Some of the counties are in vanilla de jures, but we currently have 8 non-vanilla de jure empires, 44 non-vanilla de jure kingdoms, and 223 non-vanilla de jure duchies, as well as a bunch of non-de jure titles (e.g. mercenaries and religious heads).
Province layout:
The province layout is about 99.9 % done. One province (Kamchatka) is currently being uncooperative as anything other than a wasteland (it causes a CTD when opening the de jure duchy map mode), which is something that we'll hopefully manage to fix (given its location and unimportance, it isn't a priority to fix that over some other things). Other than that, the only thing left to do when it comes to the province layout is potential polishing, assuming we do not decide to split something up or to add even more provinces (neither of which is particularly likely at this time, considering we've got other things we need to do).
Positions:
Positions are 100 % done, barring any necessary tweaks that become necessary. Not counting ports (which all coastal counties have), a total of 2677 map elements have been positioned (each requiring two coordinates, and with a number of the ports having a non-defualt rotation as well).
Title history:
The main priority when it comes to the history files is to get Stamford Bridge (1066.9.15) in working order. 867 and 769 will probably be relatively close to being done as a result of that, since many areas will have history based on the files we had in the previous version (which had history for those dates). Right now, we pretty much only care about having titles in the correct top realm (though there are a few (mostly placeholder) vassals in places), and areas without good sources will end up with some guesswork even when it comes to that.
At present, 75 % of all counties (612 of 816 (counting Kamchatka)) have title history files, as do a number of higher titles.
Updating Tianxia files for 3.0.X/modifying vanilla files for Tianxia:
This sub-goal is 100 % done (barring anything requiring further tweaks). Very little new stuff has been added aside from the new Doctrines, though the Silk Road (and Trans-Saharan Trade Route) have been extended a bit (particularly in the Far East) and the plague patterns are updated to cover Tianxia provinces as well. Note that the trade routes might be redrawn in some parts of the world depending on various factors.
Baronies:
While there were a few areas that had the required seven potential baronies (due to Prosperity) from the start, most of our counties needed six baronies (all of them had at least one, named after the county itself in most cases) added or checked (since there were a number of counties where baronies either might have ended up in a different province after the map rework or where the baronies were uncertain to be correct to begin with). While it is a bit hard to come up with exact numbers here because it isn't possible to check how many provinces had proper baronies, a total of 4896 baronies would have been needed at the start if all provinces had needed six of them. At present, 211 counties have had all required baronies added, meaning a bit less than 26 % of the work is done, though some of the remaining areas are done to some extent. It is likely that the testers will get something before all baronies are added, but the lack of baronies is something that needs to be addressed before a public release.
Things that are hard to measure:
- A number of provinces are likely to have an incorrect religion, an incorrect culture, an incorrect number of existing holdings or potential (pre-Prosperity) holdings, or other issues. The former two issues are relatively easy to deal with when we have the time (they're fairly low priority at present, since such issues don't affect playability) and know what needs to be fixed, while the holding issues can't be dealt with until we have enough potential baronies to add more.
- A number of titles lack unique title colours. This does not actually prevent the mod from being playable, but it can make it hard to e.g. check de jure borders. Some areas also could use title colours that followed a theme instead of what we've currently got, but replacing those is very much not a priority.
- We currently haven't got proper CoAs added for any of our titles. This does not actually prevent the mod from being playable, but having all armies/fleets running around with white banners is likely to be confusing. It is currently unclear how many titles we have that completely lack non-white placeholders, how many titles have usable placeholders in the previous version, and how many titles that have fully usable CoAs in the previous version.
- We need to run a number of observer games and some test games to look for issues that will not be easily spotted without doing that, and will also need to check the error log and the Validator to look for issues. Depending on the issues discovered, the time needed to fix them could differ quite a bit.
Since it might be of interest, here's a breakdown of how far we've gotten towards several important sub-goals. Note that this list is non-exhaustive, and that I am not the final authority on when we've got something that's ready for release, whether to the testers or publicly.
For reference, the map expansion consisted of 185 sea zones, 8 lake provinces, 2 (currently 3) wasteland provinces, 44 navigable river provinces, and 816 (currently 815) counties. Some of the counties are in vanilla de jures, but we currently have 8 non-vanilla de jure empires, 44 non-vanilla de jure kingdoms, and 223 non-vanilla de jure duchies, as well as a bunch of non-de jure titles (e.g. mercenaries and religious heads).
Province layout:
The province layout is about 99.9 % done. One province (Kamchatka) is currently being uncooperative as anything other than a wasteland (it causes a CTD when opening the de jure duchy map mode), which is something that we'll hopefully manage to fix (given its location and unimportance, it isn't a priority to fix that over some other things). Other than that, the only thing left to do when it comes to the province layout is potential polishing, assuming we do not decide to split something up or to add even more provinces (neither of which is particularly likely at this time, considering we've got other things we need to do).
Positions:
Positions are 100 % done, barring any necessary tweaks that become necessary. Not counting ports (which all coastal counties have), a total of 2677 map elements have been positioned (each requiring two coordinates, and with a number of the ports having a non-defualt rotation as well).
Title history:
The main priority when it comes to the history files is to get Stamford Bridge (1066.9.15) in working order. 867 and 769 will probably be relatively close to being done as a result of that, since many areas will have history based on the files we had in the previous version (which had history for those dates). Right now, we pretty much only care about having titles in the correct top realm (though there are a few (mostly placeholder) vassals in places), and areas without good sources will end up with some guesswork even when it comes to that.
At present, 75 % of all counties (612 of 816 (counting Kamchatka)) have title history files, as do a number of higher titles.
Updating Tianxia files for 3.0.X/modifying vanilla files for Tianxia:
This sub-goal is 100 % done (barring anything requiring further tweaks). Very little new stuff has been added aside from the new Doctrines, though the Silk Road (and Trans-Saharan Trade Route) have been extended a bit (particularly in the Far East) and the plague patterns are updated to cover Tianxia provinces as well. Note that the trade routes might be redrawn in some parts of the world depending on various factors.
Baronies:
While there were a few areas that had the required seven potential baronies (due to Prosperity) from the start, most of our counties needed six baronies (all of them had at least one, named after the county itself in most cases) added or checked (since there were a number of counties where baronies either might have ended up in a different province after the map rework or where the baronies were uncertain to be correct to begin with). While it is a bit hard to come up with exact numbers here because it isn't possible to check how many provinces had proper baronies, a total of 4896 baronies would have been needed at the start if all provinces had needed six of them. At present, 211 counties have had all required baronies added, meaning a bit less than 26 % of the work is done, though some of the remaining areas are done to some extent. It is likely that the testers will get something before all baronies are added, but the lack of baronies is something that needs to be addressed before a public release.
Things that are hard to measure:
- A number of provinces are likely to have an incorrect religion, an incorrect culture, an incorrect number of existing holdings or potential (pre-Prosperity) holdings, or other issues. The former two issues are relatively easy to deal with when we have the time (they're fairly low priority at present, since such issues don't affect playability) and know what needs to be fixed, while the holding issues can't be dealt with until we have enough potential baronies to add more.
- A number of titles lack unique title colours. This does not actually prevent the mod from being playable, but it can make it hard to e.g. check de jure borders. Some areas also could use title colours that followed a theme instead of what we've currently got, but replacing those is very much not a priority.
- We currently haven't got proper CoAs added for any of our titles. This does not actually prevent the mod from being playable, but having all armies/fleets running around with white banners is likely to be confusing. It is currently unclear how many titles we have that completely lack non-white placeholders, how many titles have usable placeholders in the previous version, and how many titles that have fully usable CoAs in the previous version.
- We need to run a number of observer games and some test games to look for issues that will not be easily spotted without doing that, and will also need to check the error log and the Validator to look for issues. Depending on the issues discovered, the time needed to fix them could differ quite a bit.
There's not much to report at the moment, though I can give you some minor tidbits:
- Initial 1066 placeholder history is 99.9 % done (Kamchatka remains, for reasons mentioned previously). It'll probably need a good amount of changes down the line as there are areas where characters hold way too much land or where we might be able to find more accurate rulers.
- A bit over 100 more provinces have gotten the necessary seven baronies added, which means about 38.5 % of them are done in that regard.
- All non-county titles have gotten a bit more distinct title colours (though some of them might still need some polishing in that regard).
- A number of titles have gotten proper CoAs, though there are still several hundred that need work.
- The testers have gotten access to a test version of the mod (which is slightly behind the internal version). There have been some minor bugs discovered (which have been fixed internally), but on the whole the mod appears to be stable and largely bug-free.
Right now, the priority remains baronies, bugfixing, and (once Great Works drops) compatibility, so you shouldn't really expect dev diaries anytime soon since chances are we won't have anything interesting to show. I'll try to remember to post progress updates similar to this one somewhat frequently, though.
As briefly mentioned a while back, we'll probably end up doing something with the Great Works system once that drops, but we can't really start thinking in detail about the specifics before we've got access to that script and can look at it in detail (the generic "Great Wall" mentioned in the latest vanilla dev diary sounds like something to investigate further...), and it won't be a priority to add new stuff for the time being (though if something essentially is a copy-paste job it might be added more quickly than if it is completely new).
- Initial 1066 placeholder history is 99.9 % done (Kamchatka remains, for reasons mentioned previously). It'll probably need a good amount of changes down the line as there are areas where characters hold way too much land or where we might be able to find more accurate rulers.
- A bit over 100 more provinces have gotten the necessary seven baronies added, which means about 38.5 % of them are done in that regard.
- All non-county titles have gotten a bit more distinct title colours (though some of them might still need some polishing in that regard).
- A number of titles have gotten proper CoAs, though there are still several hundred that need work.
- The testers have gotten access to a test version of the mod (which is slightly behind the internal version). There have been some minor bugs discovered (which have been fixed internally), but on the whole the mod appears to be stable and largely bug-free.
Right now, the priority remains baronies, bugfixing, and (once Great Works drops) compatibility, so you shouldn't really expect dev diaries anytime soon since chances are we won't have anything interesting to show. I'll try to remember to post progress updates similar to this one somewhat frequently, though.
As briefly mentioned a while back, we'll probably end up doing something with the Great Works system once that drops, but we can't really start thinking in detail about the specifics before we've got access to that script and can look at it in detail (the generic "Great Wall" mentioned in the latest vanilla dev diary sounds like something to investigate further...), and it won't be a priority to add new stuff for the time being (though if something essentially is a copy-paste job it might be added more quickly than if it is completely new).
Not anytime soon.
The currently active team is quite small (including people that only have been active in the sense that they've been communicating in our Discord, four people have been active over the course of the last month), and we've got some big things that must be done before we've got something that's remotely releasable (e.g. we still need to add/check/fix the baronies in 462 provinces (assuming my count is correct) and positions.txt needs quite a bit of work thanks to GW resulting in every province now needing positions for wonders).
It is also possible that we also will want to get some new/improved mechanics (beyond those we've already added since the last public version) into the next public version, that we'll want to add some "standard" stuff that we're missing (e.g. cultural retinues/buildings for most cultures, holy orders for our religions, or non-DW/-SRS societies for our religions), that we'll want to fill in more bookmarks (and/or improve the setup we've got for Stamford Bridge), that we'll want to fix some stuff that's disabled due to various issues (that weren't trivial to fix when they were discovered), and so on, which I don't get to decide, so I can't even give you a complete list of what needs to be done.
Nice, I look forward to the updated version of this mod, I am glad that there are still people who are active and dedicated. You have my encouragement and support. In the future, if and when I get a lot more experience and knowledge in modding, there is a possibility I may want to join the efforts of this mod.