[MOD] Tianxia: Silk Road Expansion

[Judicatio]

I did running a couple of mods besides tianxia. I claimed all of de jure of china using purchase claim mod , Song dynasty already lost almost of china at that point so i just claim the rest if not it will be too long for me to conquer china and it will make the game less immersive because the transition between dynasty like Song to Yuan, Ming to Qing Only takes ~50 years, I'm already already playing for more than fifty years, I'm afraid china will lose most of their de jure territory because of de jure drift. Oh one more thing. Why didn't song dynasty's mandate didn't change when I'm already conquered most of china, They should lost a lot of mandate when i take their capital.

 

[Judicatio]

Well the pretender is not the same person as the one who reunified china, it was his grandson who managed to unified china.

 

[Silversweeeper]

I did running a couple of mods besides tianxia. I claimed all of de jure of china using purchase claim mod , Song dynasty already lost almost of china at that point so i just claim the rest if not it will be too long for me to conquer china and it will make the game less immersive because the transition between dynasty like Song to Yuan, Ming to Qing Only takes ~50 years, I'm already already playing for more than fifty years, I'm afraid china will lose most of their de jure territory because of de jure drift. Oh one more thing. Why didn't song dynasty's mandate didn't change when I'm already conquered most of china, They should lost a lot of mandate when i take their capital.

"A couple of other mods" could interfere with various bits of Tianxia. I wouldn't expect them to mess with this particular thing, but it's still not advised to run different mods alongside Tianxia (or other big mods) as even if there aren't issues due to file conflicts things might not behave as expected.


As for the balance bits:

- Regarding the length of dynastic transition, by the time the Mongols invaded China Song had already lost quite a lot of territory in the north to (Jurchen) Jin, so while the Mongols conquered all of China they didn't conquer all of China from Song. Various other historical conquests are also not possible to do in CK2 in quite the same way due to a lack of CBs or the specifics of how certain CBs work, and we need to balance with CK2 as a whole in mind rather than very exceptional historical circumstances in mind.

- As for Ming-Qing, that's quite some time after the era, so what happened at that point is irrelevant as far as our balancing goes.

- Regarding capital loss and Mandate loss, there's intentionally not a huge Mandate penalty associated with losing your capital as that'd open up a pretty obvious exploit (fabricate claim (if necessary), take capital, laugh at Mingsplosion, gobble up the pieces), and historically Song endured for over 150 years after the loss of their capital (Kaifeng fell in 1127, Song fell in 1279), so the loss of the capital shouldn't guarantee the quick collapse of the realm.

- As for the overall Mandate loss, there could be various mitigating factors allowing them to keep their Mandate at a decent level, particularly as 7.1.0's Mandate calculation could be quite lenient at times due to how it was set up, and as the system is a bit resistant to changing several steps in quick succession (as chances are most players wouldn't enjoy "Your Mandate went from Unquestioned to Lost in four years because one little thing went wrong"), is a bit biased towards Average, and involves a degree of randomness (the "score" you get behind the scenes affects the likelihood of "Increase/decrease/do nothing" happening, but it isn't as simple as "Have a score greater than 0 and you'll go up, have a score below 0 and you'll go down") they might not have had enough time to suffer a significant Mandate loss or they might have gotten lucky.

Well the pretender is not the same person as the one who reunified china, it was his grandson who managed to unified china.

The exact relation shouldn't matter, but if you've changed your culture (without the game rule set to allow all cultures) or religion to something ineligible for Chinese Imperial (e.g Catholic) you'd not be getting a bloodline for taking over China.

Also, whether you got e_china by pressing a claim on it, by creating the title normally (you'd be unable to do so if Chinese Imperial, but if you had a different government for whatever reason it'd be an option), or by using the special decision for Chinese Imperial rulers is important to know, as different bits of script would be relevant to check depending on which one you used.

 

[Judicatio]

Also, whether you got e_china by pressing a claim on it, by creating the title normally (you'd be unable to do so if Chinese Imperial, but if you had a different government for whatever reason it'd be an option), or by using the special decision for Chinese Imperial rulers is important to know, as different bits of script would be relevant to check depending on which one you used.

Well I reunified china using special decisions. So I just started a new game and get chinese bloodline.
I have a few questions. Why do when i give my son kingdom tittle his government type is chinese imperial even though he's only a king?
And how do i get heirloom seal after reunified china?

 

[Silversweeeper]

Well I reunified china using special decisions. So I just started a new game and get chinese bloodline.
I have a few questions. Why do when i give my son kingdom tittle his government type is chinese imperial even though he's only a king?
And how do i get heirloom seal after reunified china?

I fixed a bug with the decision recently that's likely related. It won't solve the issue retroactively (particularly not as the next version is expected to break existing saves), but it might prevent it in the future.

Your relatives get Chinese Imperial because when someone offers a concubine using the Grace system there's a "My heir can have her" option that wouldn't work well if a landed heir couldn't have a silly amount of concubines or if landing someone meant that they lost a bunch of concubines, and it's not desirable to create a separate government for relatives or to increase the number of concubines for Confucian Bureaucracy.

The Heirloom Seal of the Realm is gained in the same way as any other artefact unless you got a Chinese Imperial empire directly off of the HSotR's holder: You either loot it, get it as a gift (pretty unlikely), get it through someone offering it for Grace, or inherit it because its holder died and you were the heir. You can use the character finder to check who has it so that you can arrange for the necessary "accidents".

 

[Judicatio]

How do i increase my mandate?

 

[Silversweeeper]

How do i increase my mandate?

It's been well over half a year since I last looked at the setup used in the 7.1.0 version, but as far as broad strokes go you should:

- Be a ruler fit for the Dragon Throne.

- Have a realm that is doing well.

- Avoid doing certain bad things (e.g. arbitrarily turn down Boon requests).

Of course, the whole thing is quite complicated behind the scenes (even the 7.1.0 version had hundreds of factors going into it if I remember correctly), and while it is possible to figure out certain aspects of the system it is intentionally designed to be something that's hard to game; for example, arbitrarily refusing a Boon will be counted against you when the Mandate is being updated, but it isn't really possible to go "If I refuse this my Mandate will drop" or "If I accept this my Mandate will increase".

 

[Silversweeeper]

Here's the new version. We decided to make it the first Open Beta version instead of yet another Open Alpha version, seeing as some pretty big things have gotten done. Aside from some last minute changes made due to issues discovered during final testing, the patch notes are basically the same, so while they're included in the .zip I won't bother posting them here.


Barring any major issues rendering the game unplayable (frequent crashes, incorrect game overs, blank events preventing you from playing any further, etc.) being discovered, work on the next version (which is planned to be a minor bugfix/polishing patch) is not planned to begin within the next month or so, but bug reports (which should go in the Bug Report thread) and general feedback ("This event chain wasn't fun because...", etc.) can of course be provided before then. It is possible that there will be a post-mortem dev diary or something like that before work begins again, but maybe not.

 

[CounterfeitDragon]

Awesome, been looking forward to this for a long time! Thank you, Tianxia team! LumberKing might want to update the opening post as well... In relation to that, I assume the old content pack still works with the new version, or is there a seperate download coming for that?

 

[Silversweeeper]

Awesome, been looking forward to this for a long time! Thank you, Tianxia team! LumberKing might want to update the opening post as well... In relation to that, I assume the old content pack still works with the new version, or is there a seperate download coming for that?

LumberKing will be updating the opening post when he has the time. The content pack should work fine, unless I've forgotten some bug that existed previously that got fixed internally.

 

[Judicatio]

There's a glitch on imperial tributary cb, my imperial protectorate revert back to tributary after he refused my offer to increase his tributary level, and yes i won the war.

 

[Silversweeeper]

Dev diary 43 - Open Beta 0.1.0 post-mortem

The first beta patch has been out for a week now and given the absence of "My game crashed!" or similar bug reports and the low number of reported bugs overall I'd say things went about as well as expected (having zero bugs would be quite surprising; vanilla still hasn't managed that one, and probably never will). There are certainly some issues with the 0.1.0 version -- the number of issues I'm aware of is approaching 100 (the vast majority are on the level of "This event's localization needs work", and most are things I've noticed in my own games) -- that will need to be checked (and ideally fixed) once bugfixing begins (barring something major being discovered, that's still a couple of weeks away).

Since there likely isn't complete overlap between who, where, or how people are playing it's quite possible that some of you have encountered bugs or other issues that others have not, so I'd once again ask you to report bugs in the Bug Report thread and would also ask that you provide other feedback ("This event's reward is much too powerful", etc.) here, as anything that's not reported is pretty unlikely to be fixed anytime soon as that'd require me to find the issue by accident either in my own games, in observer games I'm running, or when checking a file for a completely unrelated reason. Even smaller issues like "Province X has a weird religion/culture/holder/liege", "Character Y has inappropriate traits/religion/culture/etc., has an incorrect name, incorrect parents/children/etc.", or "Event Z messes up the name of one party/fires in the wrong scope/ietc." (please check the event id with charinfo and report that, as it makes it easier to find it) are worth reporting (but try to report them as one report as spamming the thread with tiny issues makes it more likely that things will be missed), though depending on just what issues are discovered it is possible that some smaller fixes will have to be delayed. Given that I suspect that at least some people here will vanish to play CK3 on Tuesday and might not return anytime soon (if at all), it might be prudent to do so sooner rather than later.


0.1.0 was -- all modesty aside -- a pretty big update; over 4000 new historical characters were added (the vast majority of them in Japan and China), quite a few fictional placeholders were cleaned up (4500+ of them Han...), and over 2000 new events were added (if memory serves, both MNM and JD have less than 1000 each, while HF has a bit more than 2000), to name a few things. Some parts of the update were planned well in advance, such as the overall history file cleanup/improvement (considering some of the more "interesting" things I discovered, I'd say it was a good idea despite taking quite a lot of time), while others either were things that initially were planned for unspecified later updates (e.g. Sunrise Invasion) or that were thought up partway through the work on the update and made sense to include (e.g. the Warriors of the Rising Sun society).

I'd like to bring up the initial list of tentative features discussed way back in dev diary 26 for a moment (ignore the version numbers mentioned there) to show how we did there:

- The Charlemagne start date.

Included. We used to have a version of it back before JD, which had quite a few issues (Japan had no vassals and Tang's post-An-Shi Rebellion breakup wasn't in, to name two big things) even before the post-HF map update made it unfeasible to support the start at that time.

- The Old Gods start date.

Included. As with CM, tOG used to be in back before JD and had a bunch of issues.

- The Iron Century start date.

Included. Given that the existing history files predated IC's release by quite some time in many cases, this had to be created essentially from scratch.

- Cultural buildings for the cultures that need them.

If memory serves, this got done in one of the smaller patches last year (aside from the Quechua cultural building (and making sure that cultures added in 0.1.0 got some already existing building)).

- Holy orders for the religions that need them (Shinto, Taoism, various reformed pagans), with related events (founding, castle construction, etc.).

Included. Not much to say here.

- Tweaks to the government setup in Japan, possibly regency mechanics for Japan, and possibly Shogunate mechanics (this is lower priority since the Kamakura shogunate only became a thing in 1185).

All of this got done (some of the government tweaks were included in earlier patches). Some of this might still require tweaks (feedback is appreciated), particularly as there's not yet a start date where the Japanese figurehead mess is more complicated than "The Tenno has a Regent" and testing of more complicated historical messes thus hasn't really been feasible.

- More dynasty names.

A decent amount was added (even excluding dynasties that were added as part of adding historical or fictional characters). We still need Min and She dynasty names, however, as finding anything for them turned out to be much harder than expected.

- A Lunar New Year celebration for Taoist/Shenist/Reformed Shenist rulers, and some other flavour related to China/the Chinese religions/the Chinese governments.

The LNY was included (though it's currently off by one when it comes to the year; that's on my list of bugs), and also got the "party crasher" extra (some of you probably have discovered just what I mean by that, but I'll keep it vague at least until the bugfix patch is out). Some other flavour was added as well (Shenist mourning and the Treasure Fleet being the big ones), though more stuff might still be worth adding. Ideas are welcome, though it should be noted that the flavour in question doesn't have priority at the moment even post-bugfixing (seeing as China already is in a rather good spot compared to quite a few other areas when it comes to flavour), so even good ideas might not get implemented right away.

- Tweaks to the CBs used to reunite/reconquer China.

The relevant CBs were adjusted a bit. Maybe more adjustments will be made in the future, and maybe more/different CBs will be considered, though an all-out "Take all of China in one non-claim war" CB is extremely unlikely to be considered.

- Tweaks to the Mandate of Heaven.

Included. Further tweaks are likely to be made (a few smaller ones are planned for 0.1.1), particularly as having more start dates around and several of those start dates having multiple Chinese Imperial realms of varying sizes in them will be useful when it comes to checking how the Mandate system works in starts when China isn't effectively united in a single blob.

- A Monastic Order for the Shinto religion (+ Japonic Buddhists, most likely).

Included, along with new pilgrimages. Oh, and they got a second society in the WotRS...


As you can see, most things got done, but what got done isn't exactly what was on the tentative list, and in some cases more got done than expected. This somewhat mirrors some vanilla teasers that look rather strange now, such as the first MNM teaser that was about Gnostics. I would expect this to continue to be true as tentative plans for future versions get revealed.

Yes; you read that correctly. The plan is to continue development of Tianxia -- and that's CK2 Tianxia -- even after the bugfix patch is out, seeing as there still are quite a few things we'd like to get done, at least as things currently stand (if interest drops to an unviable level, it is possible development will cease, and other commitments and interests could possibly get in the way down the line). It's too soon to reveal anything more specific than that (particularly as some big details need to be worked out first), but I hope to be able to reveal at least some things regarding future plans shortly after the bugfix patch has been released (how soon that happens depends on both the number and nature of the reported bugs/issues and how easy it is to find time to work on the patch, but it'll probably be within the next month or so).

 

[Qe le Q]

I love this mod and I love the silliness and dedication of adding the Inca invasion possibility.
There is a mod that add the Aztec as a off-map power, would it be inside of the scope of this mod to add that as well for the Incas?
(Of course I completely understand that there are way more pressing matters but I think that it could be nice )

 

[Silversweeeper]

I love this mod and I love the silliness and dedication of adding the Inca invasion possibility.
There is a mod that add the Aztec as a off-map power, would it be inside of the scope of this mod to add that as well for the Incas?
(Of course I completely understand that there are way more pressing matters but I think that it could be nice )

It's well outside the scope of Tianxia to add something like that, and considering the Inca (and the Aztecs) are supposed to be a counterpart to the Mongols (invaders that have the potential to create a significant empire and that upset the status quo in the region they attack) rather than China (generally disinterested in the rest of the world unless someone gets uppity but possibly willing to trade/enter into certain agreements) the existing (JD China) offmap mechanics are a poor fit even before we get to issues like most of the Tributes/Boons not making sense if the offmap realm isn't China, so anything remotely flavourfully accurate would need to be created effectively from scratch (and existing Inca and Aztec flavour would need to be overhauled to account for the offmap power(s)), thus requiring significant work, and would be pretty unlikely to be extensive enough (JD China has 20 interactions, 25 artefacts, six different offmap character types, and a good amount of flavour events) or mechanically fitting enough (the normal state of affairs would be "They're invading/planning to invade/recovering from a failed invasion", so diplomacy wouldn't be on the table most of the time) to warrant an offmap power.

 

[Baron Wolfgang]

Any chance Suryavarman II, builder of Ankor Wat and King of the Khmer/Ankor Empire will get his own bloodline? Also Ankor Wat as a pre-built great work hindu temple with custom boni for buddhists would be awesome. For anyone interested Extra Credits made a short series about Ankor Wat, called Building Ankor. Certainly worth a watch.

 

[Silversweeeper]

Any chance Suryavarman II, builder of Ankor Wat and King of the Khmer/Ankor Empire will get his own bloodline? Also Ankor Wat as a pre-built great work hindu temple with custom boni for buddhists would be awesome. For anyone interested Extra Credits made a short series about Ankor Wat, called Building Ankor. Certainly worth a watch.

Giving Suryavarman II a bloodline as we continue to move history forward should be possible, though it might not be something he has right from the start of his reign depending on what the specifics are (as e.g. a "This guy ordered the construction of a Great Work and gets bonuses related to that" bloodline wouldn't make much sense if he hasn't done such a thing by a certain date).

As for Angkor Wat, it'll almost certainly be added as we continue to move history forward. For consistency reasons it'll probably be implemented as a copy-paste of a Hindu Great Temple that is slightly cheaper to construct/upgrade and that can be set to be active for Buddhists if a Buddhist takes over, similar to how the Hagia Sophia is implemented as a slightly cheaper Grand Cathedral that can be changed to be active for Muslims if they take over Constantinople.

Since the 0.1.1 bugfix patch isn't moving history forward neither of the above should be expected as part of said bugfix patch, but as the bloodline and the Great Work would be relevant rather early on post-Stamford Bridge they're likely things that'll be looked at in the near-ish future.

 

[Baron Wolfgang]

Giving Suryavarman II a bloodline as we continue to move history forward should be possible, though it might not be something he has right from the start of his reign depending on what the specifics are (as e.g. a "This guy ordered the construction of a Great Work and gets bonuses related to that" bloodline wouldn't make much sense if he hasn't done such a thing by a certain date).

As for Angkor Wat, it'll almost certainly be added as we continue to move history forward. For consistency reasons it'll probably be implemented as a copy-paste of a Hindu Great Temple that is slightly cheaper to construct/upgrade and that can be set to be active for Buddhists if a Buddhist takes over, similar to how the Hagia Sophia is implemented as a slightly cheaper Grand Cathedral that can be changed to be active for Muslims if they take over Constantinople.

Since the 0.1.1 bugfix patch isn't moving history forward neither of the above should be expected as part of said bugfix patch, but as the bloodline and the Great Work would be relevant rather early on post-Stamford Bridge they're likely things that'll be looked at in the near-ish future.

That is great to hear. I've thorougly enjoyed this mod for many hours now. Perhaps Jayavarman VII (1130 - 1215) would be more worthy of a bloodline as he was the first buddhist king of Ankor and during his reign the temple was subtly converted to a buddhist one and additional walls were added to reïnforce the templecity.

Also, would you be okay if I made a submod that gives the Mon and Khmer (but not Vietnamese) the Tibetan faces and clothing? As you might guess I absolutely love this region (even though I'm not from anywhere near there) and I feel like the Tibetan faces and especially clothing would be more suitable.

 

[Silversweeeper]

That is great to hear. I've thorougly enjoyed this mod for many hours now. Perhaps Jayavarman VII (1130 - 1215) would be more worthy of a bloodline as he was the first buddhist king of Ankor and during his reign the temple was subtly converted to a buddhist one and additional walls were added to reïnforce the templecity.

Unless Wikipedia is misleading me regarding how Suryavarman II and Jayavarman VII are related we might be able to do both if we can figure out something worth giving to both of them, since if the information on Wikipedia is correct neither would be the ancestor of the other and we'd thus not need to worry about e.g. balance issues arising from stacking bloodlines on historical characters. No promises are made, but it's something worth taking a look at.

Also, would you be okay if I made a submod that gives the Mon and Khmer (but not Vietnamese) the Tibetan faces and clothing? As you might guess I absolutely love this region (even though I'm not from anywhere near there) and I feel like the Tibetan faces and especially clothing would be more suitable.

I'm technically not the right person to ask, but I suspect I can answer this:

- If you're doing it for yourself and don't plan to share it with anyone, do whatever you want (we couldn't stop you even if we wanted to). Just be sure you don't forget to mention that you've got another mod active if you bug report something, and make sure you handle any compatibility patching on your own (we can't make sure we don't break submods).

- If you're planning to share the submod publicly and this merely is overriding a few cultures with "bodpagfx" (if it is something more extensive, please clarify), I'm prepared to say we'd be fine with you copying and sharing the necessary file(s), with the understanding that you credit us (just put a comment crediting Tianxia at the top of the file(s)), that you don't grant other mods permission to use something you've copied from us, and that you only copy and share the necessary file(s). Also make sure you mention that you're using a mod if you bug report stuff and that you handle any compatibility patching in this case too.

- If you plan to modify and share our graphics, check with LumberKing. I'm not entirely sure what our position is when it comes to that stuff.

 

[Baron Wolfgang]

Unless Wikipedia is misleading me regarding how Suryavarman II and Jayavarman VII are related we might be able to do both if we can figure out something worth giving to both of them, since if the information on Wikipedia is correct neither would be the ancestor of the other and we'd thus not need to worry about e.g. balance issues arising from stacking bloodlines on historical characters. No promises are made, but it's something worth taking a look at.



I'm technically not the right person to ask, but I suspect I can answer this:

- If you're doing it for yourself and don't plan to share it with anyone, do whatever you want (we couldn't stop you even if we wanted to). Just be sure you don't forget to mention that you've got another mod active if you bug report something, and make sure you handle any compatibility patching on your own (we can't make sure we don't break submods).

- If you're planning to share the submod publicly and this merely is overriding a few cultures with "bodpagfx" (if it is something more extensive, please clarify), I'm prepared to say we'd be fine with you copying and sharing the necessary file(s), with the understanding that you credit us (just put a comment crediting Tianxia at the top of the file(s)), that you don't grant other mods permission to use something you've copied from us, and that you only copy and share the necessary file(s). Also make sure you mention that you're using a mod if you bug report stuff and that you handle any compatibility patching in this case too.

- If you plan to modify and share our graphics, check with LumberKing. I'm not entirely sure what our position is when it comes to that stuff.

So I made the submod. I also posted credits in the README. It's a very minor edit to be honest. You can do whatever you want with the file ofcourse and I hope you think I credited the moddingteam appropriatly.

The changes that I made:
Khmer and Mon (but not Cham and Viet) now use Chinese faces with Bodpa facial hair, ears (for the earrings) and clothes.
Thai-kadai culture group now uses Chinese faces with Chinese facial hair, Bodpa ears (for the earrings) and clothes.

 

[Arcvalons]

To play multiplayer, is it necessary for both players to have the listed portrait packs? Also, does the Ultimate Portrait Pack include all required portraits?