CK2 Dev Diary #31: Back to work

[Tavior]

Not with the story we are given, we are told that through encounters with vikings from the vinland colony who sailed south the aztecs learned of metal crafting and shipbuilding. Well it's nonsense, in the 10th century the aztecs were a barbarian people far less advanced than the iroquios (who according to their own history already had established the great law of peace at the time, though their accounts of how old their civilisation is may not be entirely truthful) living on the western side of the american continent. There were a great civilisations in mesoamerica at that point, the old mayan empire was at the height of its power, the city state of Teotihuacan ruled much like the city states of ancient mesopotamia had. The aztecs could not have migrated into the area at the time because two of the most powerful civilizations of precolombian america was at the pinnacle of their power. Now if these had encountered the vikings, if they could have prevented their own decline then them invading europe is not at all far fetched. Now I guess that the aztecs could have mifrated t the east coast further north and encountered these viking explorers, but truth be told even with metal working they'd still not have the power to invade mesoamerica at this time.
It's not strictly speaking impossible but it relies on a huge number of unrelated and increadibly unlikely events. And even then it's doubtful they'd have ended up being called aztecs since aztec comes from aztecatl meanign the people from Aztlán which is the mythical homeland in the north which they migrated from if they had migrated to the east coast firs then they would not have referred themselves as aztecatl and never have been called aztecs.

In conclusion the story is so stupid, because not a lot of though or research went into it, which is sad it could have been a really interesting expansion if they had bothered to ctually research precolombian america, they could have had Teotihuacan, the Mayas, and the Iroquois show up instead of Inca and Aztecs centuries before they make any sense.

Oh and the Incas mentioned in events are even worse the incas are named after the dynasty that ruled when they united. The power in the andes at the time was the moche and the chimu civilisations. Civilisation in that part of the world predates any known civilisation with the exception of Mesopotamia.

There's loads of interesting stuff going on in the americas in the ck2 timeframe but no let us dumb t down to the two most famous names even when they are hugely anachronistic, just because we're afraid people won't like it unless they recognize the names.

I don't even. What?

You are right now just rambling non-sense mostly.

I NEVER said that Viking and Aztec had any kind of direct contact with each other? Where is this coming from? Why are you talking about passing of knowledge from Viking to Aztec? If anything Viking MOST certainly had contact with American Natives living in/or near NewFoundland. Viking even had a name for them too Skraelings (meaning little men).

When I say Aztec, I meant people who lived in that region and had civilization. Just keep in mind that I am using a very loose definition here. Although I will admit that is an interesting trivia information. Only what has it do with what I am saying?

If you don't like the name Aztec because it offensive you so much, why don't you mod it? Or even make a suggestion to change the name in suggestion subforum? As opposite to ranting off here?

 

[TheDungen]

I don't even. What?

You are right now just rambling non-sense mostly.

I NEVER said that Viking and Aztec had any kind of direct contact with each other? Where is this coming from? Why are you talking about passing of knowledge from Viking to Aztec? If anything Viking MOST certainly had contact with American Natives living in/or near NewFoundland. Viking even had a name for them too Skraelings (meaning little men).

When I say Aztec, I meant people who lived in that region and had civilization. Just keep in mind that I am using a very loose definition here. Although I will admit that is an interesting trivia information. Only what has it do with what I am saying?

If you don't like the name Aztec because it offensive you so much, why don't you mod it? Or even make a suggestion to change the name in suggestion subforum? As opposite to ranting off here?

That is the ingame explanation for the sunset invasion, that vikings from the vinland colony ventures south and end up causing the aztecs to learn boatbuilding. This is what I am saying is ridiculous.
Not the vikings doing that but that the empires they meet would not have been the aztecs, but the peoples who actually built the great cities of stone that the spanish found the aztecs dwelling in. Those people would have been much more likely to actually learn from the vikings, but less likely to practice human sacrifice on the same scale (though the scale tat the aztecs did may also have been exaggerated or misunderstood by the Spanish).
Like I said I don't mind the sunset invasion I only feel it's wasted potential because they were a bit lax in their research. I hope that the new world will one day be added to a ck game and that we'll get so see these fascinating cultures explored.

 

[Tavior]

Eh I never really liked the Sunset Invasion that much especially in that it could mess up some certain formable titles. So I really didn't paid that much attention.

 

[Duuk]

For the love of everything holy can we stop with the Aztecs? SI is a fantasy add-on. It has no basis in reality. None. It's there so in a multiplayer game playing as a Russian duke (and awaiting the Mongol destruction) is balanced against playing the Duke of Aquitaine (and awaiting teh Aztec destruction).

 

[TheDungen]

Eh I never really liked the Sunset Invasion that much especially in that it could mess up some certain formable titles. So I really didn't paid that much attention.

Well that is the idea anyway, and it's not a terrible justification. Of course it seems unlikely anyone would have been able to ship meaningful number of soldiers over the ocean at that point but trade between the old and new world could easily have been a thing if the vinland colony had survived.
Then again china had simple steam engines in the 10th century, and were on the verge of the industrial revolution when the song dynasty collapsed. There's no way that the game can cope with what really could have happened.

For the love of everything holy can we stop with the Aztecs? SI is a fantasy add-on. It has no basis in reality. None. It's there so in a multiplayer game playing as a Russian duke (and awaiting the Mongol destruction) is balanced against playing the Duke of Aquitaine (and awaiting teh Aztec destruction).

Well it could have been an interesting alternate history but now it's kind of meh.

 

[vandevere]

You can already see what the think in the tooltip, the point of having it shown on the council screen is so that you can interact with them more easily if you need to influence their vote. It would be trickier to add character links and updating vote status to a popup box.



TBH My chancellor often sat doing nothing before we added this. If no powerful vassal was annoyed with me and/or I played someone without the need to forge claims then my chancellor just naps all day.



I was vague about the Chaplain job because I'll talk in more details about that in a future DD

Could we be talking about Inquisitions and the dreaded auto-de-fe?

 

[Abnwtwtud]

Could we be talking about Inquisitions and the dreaded auto-de-fe?

I don't really expect that.

 

[Notho]

But... But how can I hunt heretics if the pope doesn't like me??

 

[chrnno]

But... But how can I hunt heretics if the pope doesn't like me??

Proclaim the pope is an heretic and start hunting him?

 

[Notho]

Proclaim the pope is an heretic and start hunting him?

I like the way you think!

 

[OBRkenobi]

It was a question for devs, as in additionally.

Except the answer to your question is obvious if you read the dev dairy.

 

[ruzen]

Except the answer to your question is obvious if you read the dev dairy.

sigh...

 

[VoodooEconomist]

And while I’m here and talking about the Council, let me mention something we’ve added for the 2.7 patch. When trying to have my Council agree to a vote with Conclave, it always bugged me that I would need to check in the tooltip of the law who was for and against it, then switch to the Council screen to bribe and cajole people, then check the law screen again to see who I had forgotten about. Instead, now you can ask that the Council considers a vote before you actually vote on it, which allows it to be shown on the Council screen along with icons on each Councilor showing how they will vote.

While it’s not in yet, we hope to add a button right there to start the voting process so that you don’t need to switch back to the laws tab once you have your votes arranged.

This is really great, I love it! By the way, is there a chance that we'd see the "reasoning" of electors in elective kinds of succession laws? Even without adding features to it (like integrating with Favours, Foci, and other actions and events) just knowing why someone's voting for A and not voting for our designated B could go a long way to make elective more interesting and strategic, as we'd know who's close to being bribed or otherwise convinced, and who needs to be *disposed of*

 

[Kenlin]

Except the answer to your question is obvious if you read the dev dairy.

Moo!

 

[Morrowind3]

Glad to see a way to reduce thread level quicker. Plus, the new Chaplain job supports my suspicions of what the DLC is going to be about, I'm already hyped!

 

[Jorlem]

This is really great, I love it! By the way, is there a chance that we'd see the "reasoning" of electors in elective kinds of succession laws? Even without adding features to it (like integrating with Favours, Foci, and other actions and events) just knowing why someone's voting for A and not voting for our designated B could go a long way to make elective more interesting and strategic, as we'd know who's close to being bribed or otherwise convinced, and who needs to be *disposed of*

And if that could be made moddable, that would be amazing. Imagine having two governments in the feudal group, both locked to elective, but one values the martial stat and personal combat skill, while the other prefers high learning and piety. It would feel very different playing them, even though almost all the mechanics would be identical.

 

[klopkr]

Interesting! I was surprised by how large it really is, from our maps I assumed we'd all be huddled into one building sticking up from the sea.

Has spending some time there inspired anything?

 

[General Karthos]

The last thing we need is faster culture conversion.

Just FYI, for the benefit of you and others who complain about this, you can slow down culture conversion to what... 25% of what it is right now, and make it harder for cultures to convert (limit the conditions under which it can convert at all).

 

[General Karthos]

I also have a question. Since Scheme has been moved off map will that mean the spymaster will fire at random people who happen to have plots, who have 100 opinion of you and have not joined any factions against you? Or will the scheme be weighted towards powerful councilors who are involved in one or two plots against you?

Not being able to choose who my spymaster schemes against is going to be a major problem, because I don't always choose the most powerful vassals. When I am spread out, I tend to know that I can suppress my local vassals if need be, so I first scheme against my distant vassals.

 

[Lysistrata]

Just FYI, for the benefit of you and others who complain about this, you can slow down culture conversion to what... 25% of what it is right now, and make it harder for cultures to convert (limit the conditions under which it can convert at all).

I've answered this point already.