CK2 Dev Diary #31: Back to work

[Abnwtwtud]

There is no genocide, but it shows how you and some others think about culture in game.
It's only effectively a modifier for potential revolts and a small opnion malus towards a new ruler (culture) in game and nothing else.
Culture is not people. Nobody gets killed.

It's basicaly just a tool for unrest and the mean time troubles until a new ruler culture gets accepted sufficiently.
All the fuss about culture as in game seems to me like quite a bit a misunderstanding and/or nationalistic nonsense.
We have discussed this over and over, but opinions stay split.

Anway, i don't see how "even with all options enabled" as

"many cultures still vanish at alarming speeds".

Sorry, but that's very exaggerated (aka hyperbole)...if you understand culture in game as level of acceptance of ruler culture,
but you probably do not share that interpretation.

PS:

I suppose the only solution for people who complain about it would be to disable it
and thus add a new Game Rule.

I have no idea how it works in CK2Plus.

Unfortunately, interpretation aside, my concern is more for the gameplay than anything else. I am a huge fan of playing my games into EU4 with that converter I paid for. Also I LIKE having instability even in a large empire, as the risk of popular revolt can help turn a revolt of the council or nobility into something more interesting. The fact is, that with the current setup, there are painfully few cultures in converted games to EU4 (which relies on a diversity of cultures for a lot) and it just gets dull after four centuries when everyone is the same culture, making balancing an empire ridiculously easy for both players and the AI.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

What you really want is a system where culture, and religion, are measured as percentages in a province, instead of being monolithic. So a province in Byzantine Egypt could have a population that was 50% Egyptian, 30% Greek and 20% Bedoin with a religion that was 60% Coptic, 25% Orthodox and 15% Shia.

That would require major re-coding of the engine, though, so we'll have to wait for the next game.

 

[Ruisuki]

This is good. Future dlc should keep adding content that is useful during peacetime.

 

[Lord Cuddlesworth]

Looking forward to this <Mystery DLC>. Seems interesting.

 

[Axe99]

Cheers for the DD Darkrenown . As well as the straight-up quality-of-life improvement of considering a vote on the council (I soooo get where you're coming from, and appreciate the change), some of those council jobs are also a bit that way (for example, I'd often 'rotate my chancellor' around when I wasn't targeting a specific vassal, but being able to just set to Statecraft sounds like something I'd do a lot). Sabotage, on the other hand, just sounds cool .

 

[Liquidbones]

I'm glad that my chaplain is finally going to be able to hunt for heresy, but will there actually be heresy? Some more heresy mechanics would be appreciated, especially for the many, many Catholic ones. And how about actual devil worship? I would love for my character to seal an infernal pact in order to secure the kingdom.

 

[Tavior]

Well the most fantastic isn't an american empire crossing the ocean, that could have happened (Still incredibly unlikely though) the most fantastic thing is that it's the aztecs crossing the ocean centuries before the aztec empire existed. The events also mentions the Inca who again aren't yet around at that point. There were earlier advanced empires in meso and south america they would have come across as at least slightly less ridicilous if they had been the ones used.

And?

I already pointed out earlier in this very thread that Viking managed to "discovered" America by sailing from Iceland to east Canada and made a settlement in the ~10th century time frame!

It was not recorded until much much later because you know no way to get word back fast.

So a such journey by a such civilization across Altantic Ocean is a plausible doable by the people in CK2 era. They just had no reason to when it was far easier to look at your neighbor and claim his/her title instead.

 

[OBRkenobi]

will statecraft give general opinion bonus?

No.

 

[TheDungen]

And?

I already pointed out earlier in this very thread that Viking managed to "discovered" America by sailing from Iceland to east Canada and made a settlement in the ~10th century time frame!

It was not recorded until much much later because you know no way to get word back fast.

So a such journey by a such civilization across Altantic Ocean is a plausible doable by the people in CK2 era. They just had no reason to when it was far easier to look at your neighbor and claim his/her title instead.

Congratulations on totally missing the point. the Aztecs cannot have done that because at the time they supposedly do it in game they have yet to migrate into the area where they will build their empire, the aztecs did not build the advanced civilisation in meso america they simply conquered it from those who did. When EU4 starts in 1444 there were no aztec or inca empires. When ck2 ends in 1453 there were not yet any aztec or inca empires.

 

[Helios Panoptes]

But even the anglified welsh were english speaking welshmen, not english. And that's the thing if the byzantine empire takes egypt it will not make the people there greek like the people in greece the pressure applied will result in something new, something different.

Should've already happened, given the Ptolemies and the six centuries under Rome/East Rome after.

 

[ruzen]

No.

It was a question for devs, as in additionally.

 

[Darkrenown]

Why not just add what the council thinks about a law below the yes or no options instead of having to click on council consideration?

You can already see what the think in the tooltip, the point of having it shown on the council screen is so that you can interact with them more easily if you need to influence their vote. It would be trickier to add character links and updating vote status to a popup box.

Cheers for the DD Darkrenown . As well as the straight-up quality-of-life improvement of considering a vote on the council (I soooo get where you're coming from, and appreciate the change), some of those council jobs are also a bit that way (for example, I'd often 'rotate my chancellor' around when I wasn't targeting a specific vassal, but being able to just set to Statecraft sounds like something I'd do a lot). Sabotage, on the other hand, just sounds cool .

TBH My chancellor often sat doing nothing before we added this. If no powerful vassal was annoyed with me and/or I played someone without the need to forge claims then my chancellor just naps all day.

I'm glad that my chaplain is finally going to be able to hunt for heresy, but will there actually be heresy? Some more heresy mechanics would be appreciated, especially for the many, many Catholic ones. And how about actual devil worship? I would love for my character to seal an infernal pact in order to secure the kingdom.

I was vague about the Chaplain job because I'll talk in more details about that in a future DD

 

[TheDungen]

Should've already happened, given the Ptolemies and the six centuries under Rome/East Rome after.

It did, they're called copts, and the scenario I mentioned would probably lead to them becoming more prominent.
That said I just used it as an example.

 

[Galaahd]

Yeah, because we needed easier ways to culture convert :|

 

[TheDungen]

Yeah, because we needed easier ways to culture convert :|

sarcasm?

 

[Tavior]

Congratulations on totally missing the point. the Aztecs cannot have done that because at the time they supposedly do it in game they have yet to migrate into the area where they will build their empire, the aztecs did not build the advanced civilisation in meso america they simply conquered it from those who did. When EU4 starts in 1444 there were no aztec or inca empires. When ck2 ends in 1453 there were not yet any aztec or inca empires.

I am aware of that. You missed what I am trying to say.

I am just saying if in alternative history timeline Aztec somehow manage to "kickstarted" their civilization way way earlier and have a good reason to go across Altantic Ocean. They are MOST certainly capable of doing so! Not that they were in a position to do in real life history. Don't confuse the two very different concepts.

My original point remain true in that if Aztec had a good reason they could invade Europe. Actually supporting the invasion is a whole different story.

 

[Lysistrata]

Then use the Game Rule available to restrict cultural conversion chance as you prefer:
http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Game_rules#Culture_Conversion

The option in the council is just that, an option..and DLC specific.
With the correct game rule that should be fine to handle for you, ...........assuming the game rule works.

I already do, and it doesn't make much difference. That's RNG for you. No matter what the MTTH is, with RNG, events tend to fire sooner rather than later, and that in itself makes it a poor way to deal with provincial culture conversion. I'll be disappointed with the devs if they don't address the fact that the game actively encourages unrealistic, zero-effort cultural map painting before they call it a day and move on to CK3.

Ideally, there should be a new system to deal with provincial culture conversion, but at the very least, what the steward job should do is make culture conversion possible at all, not make it happen even faster. It isn't something that should happen spontaneously with no effort on your part.

 

[TheDungen]

I am aware of that. You missed what I am trying to say.

I am just saying if in alternative history timeline Aztec somehow manage to "kickstarted" their civilization way way earlier and have a good reason to go across Altantic Ocean. They are MOST certainly capable of doing so! Not that they were in a position to do in real life history. Don't confuse the two very different concepts.

My original point remain true in that if Aztec had a good reason they could invade Europe. Actually supporting the invasion is a whole different story.

Not with the story we are given, we are told that through encounters with vikings from the vinland colony who sailed south the aztecs learned of metal crafting and shipbuilding. Well it's nonsense, in the 10th century the aztecs were a barbarian people far less advanced than the iroquios (who according to their own history already had established the great law of peace at the time, though their accounts of how old their civilisation is may not be entirely truthful) living on the western side of the american continent. There were a great civilisations in mesoamerica at that point, the old mayan empire was at the height of its power, the city state of Teotihuacan ruled much like the city states of ancient mesopotamia had. The aztecs could not have migrated into the area at the time because two of the most powerful civilizations of precolombian america was at the pinnacle of their power. Now if these had encountered the vikings, if they could have prevented their own decline then them invading europe is not at all far fetched. Now I guess that the aztecs could have mifrated t the east coast further north and encountered these viking explorers, but truth be told even with metal working they'd still not have the power to invade mesoamerica at this time.
It's not strictly speaking impossible but it relies on a huge number of unrelated and increadibly unlikely events. And even then it's doubtful they'd have ended up being called aztecs since aztec comes from aztecatl meanign the people from Aztlán which is the mythical homeland in the north which they migrated from if they had migrated to the east coast firs then they would not have referred themselves as aztecatl and never have been called aztecs.

In conclusion the story is so stupid, because not a lot of though or research went into it, which is sad it could have been a really interesting expansion if they had bothered to ctually research precolombian america, they could have had Teotihuacan, the Mayas, and the Iroquois show up instead of Inca and Aztecs centuries before they make any sense.

Oh and the Incas mentioned in events are even worse the incas are named after the dynasty that ruled when they united. The power in the andes at the time was the moche and the chimu civilisations. Civilisation in that part of the world predates any known civilisation with the exception of Mesopotamia.

There's loads of interesting stuff going on in the americas in the ck2 timeframe but no let us dumb t down to the two most famous names even when they are hugely anachronistic, just because we're afraid people won't like it unless they recognize the names.

 

[in heaven]

I would also suggest to make court physician another advisor with his own buttons like for example, he could help poor people in certain provinces and so on.

 

[Antisocial_Weeb]

With all the quality of life upgrades can you guys add a pillage all holdings button for nomads pls.