Stellaris Dev Diary #241 - Unity Open Beta and the Dev Clash

[GoguRomania]

I like the changes.

I'm still hoping for bugged Raider Fleets of Marauders to be finally fixed though. (They get stuck indefinitely once FTL Inhibitors start showing up and then the entire "Raid Empire" feature becomes unusable for the rest of the game).

Huh, this explains why the raiders that I refused to pay off didn't really attack me in the end

 

[Lidhuin]

I'm a bit sad that you're not immediately tweaking the numbers for base unity production, given that Death Priests and Memorialists both cost a civic, and exchange 1:1 unity for society research, meaning that by Paradox's valuation of society research, a researcher produces 3x the output of a bureaucrat for the exact same cost (they're both specialist, they both require a building, and they both take up 2 consumer goods to work the job).

This isn't even getting into whether or not unity or research is better (though I have opinions on that). It's simply observing that one of the jobs has a vastly better output.

 

[CometBliss]

Are there gonna be any changes to some origins such as shattered ring? Or is this update only solely focused on unity rework. I mean obviously not only unity rework you guys got bug fixes that are also great and added cool ascension to planets too.

 

[ATerafin22]

I posted about the Slave Market in the 3.3 Unity Open Beta UPDATED Feedback Megathread and now there are Slave Market changes!

I don't yet know what those changes are, or how much weight my post really had, but I am thrilled regardless and hoping for the best. Thanks!

​

 

[MrFreake_PDX]

So the unity open beta has not been updated today and will not be updated until the release of 3.3.1, did I understand that correctly?

will be 3.3.1 on beta branch or no ?

3.3.1 will be the release version, the beta will not be updated. I'm not sure if the patch notes listed in the OP are final or not yet.

I find the closing of the feedback period, then this dev diary with 0 concrete information on changes being made from it

There's a list of changes that will be implemented in the release version in this DD.

I also see no mention of the return of Culture Workers or any equivalent culture-related job.

Some instances of culture workers survived.

 

[smile444]

you need to increase sprawl penalties if you want to make tall play viable As it stands an empire would need more than 1000 pops to experience diminishing returns on scientists. Meaning t's easy for a wide empire to out-tech a tall one with those sprawl values.

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

With Influence becoming a strictly external affair, the Influence bonus should be moved to Xenophile. It is the ethic that makes the most sense for a bonus to (external) Influence, it would be a nice boost to the ethic, and it would synergize very nicely with the extra Envoys (not to mention that it would make a nice mirror for the reduced outpost cost for Xenophobes). It would solidify Xenophile as the "diplomatic power" ethic.

Authoritarian could then get the Stability bonus from Pacifist to replace its lost Influence bonus - which would make more sense as authoritarians are addicted to stability and it is also a common trope that THE one thing authoritarians always promise is order and stability.

Pacifist could in turn pick up the Trade Value bonus that Xenophile would need to drop to make room for the Influence bonus, and this would incidentally also be a very appropriate bonus for Pacifist since it is already supposed to be focused on trade and economy (it corresponds to the Prosperity Faction, which really likes trade).

(These things being said, I also think it might be a good idea to remove the Pacifist reduction of pop sprawl, which is much too similar to the Spiritualist bonuses in terms of its ultimate impact, and replace it with a Happiness bonus. It would be more appropriate for Pacifist than the current Stability bonus, not just because it reduces Crime and thereby protects Trade Value but also because it is closer to the utopian idyll that Pacifist sort of represents. If Pacifist gets the living standard Utopian Abundance as well, it would pair up perfectly with the most pacifist Economic Policy option, "Civilian Economy". These changes would solidify Pacifist as the "prosperity power" ethic it should be - similar to how Materialist is the "scientific power" ethic, Militarist is the "military power" ethic, Xenophile is the "diplomatic power" ethic, Authoritarian is the "centralized power" ethic, Egalitarian is the "social power" ethic, and so on.)

Here is the original suggestion thread, for more elaborate reasoning:
Influence bonus to Xenophiles, Stability bonus to Authoritarians, and Trade bonus to Pacifists

 

[Kahldris]

You know every change looks pretty good to me so uh ya cool man!

P.S. I am still a fan of increased sprawl penalties though I do admit I have limited time on the beta.

 

[lasator]

Regular ME still needs a unity source based on their capital buildings. Starting with 7 unity/month income without the Maintenance Protocols civic means that it takes ME 15 months before they can hire their first scientist or 42 months before their first tradition pick. That seems a little imbalanced compared to all other empire types (some of which start with 50+ unity/month). Even with the MP civic the number increases to 15 unity/month resulting in 7 months and 20 months respectively.

My suggestion is to add unity production to the Hunter Seeker drone job and remove the Sentinel Posts building to avoid abuse. This gives ME a unity boost upon colony founding like other empires although at a decreased amount as there are less of these jobs at each capital building level than the other empire types. Add a small +2 or +4 energy upkeep cost to balance out the additional production and the empires are back in relative alignment with very little effort.

 

[Nebbie Zebbie]

3.3.1 will be the release version, the beta will not be updated. I'm not sure if the patch notes listed in the OP are final or not yet.



There's a list of changes that will be implemented in the release version in this DD.



Some instances of culture workers survived.

Oh, I had mistook the 3.3.1 changelog for the updated beta changelog for the mid-beta changes due to its short size. That's...yikes, bugfixes are great and all, and spiritualists and the edict system being minorly better is good, but I hope you guys have some ideas in the works for a followup patch to at least try and address civic balance with things like Warrior Culture.

 

[Rostyk.96]

hive mind can stack sprawl reduction from colonies to 125% with divided attention, imperial prerogative and expansion tradition

hive mind overall got a lot of empowering sprawl reduction modifiers, gestalts in general became only more powerful while already being meta, normal empires got weakened further by increased consumer goods demand, also, why divided attention still improves your sprawl situation while efficient bureaucracy gets useless bureaucrates upkeep reduction, which makes it even worse than it was before buff, it could have been a sprawl reducing civic for normal empires instead, would any of that will be addressed?

overall, changes to consumer goods and amenities, with merchants becoming useless on top, were the most impactful, and they impacted only normal empires

 

[Culann]

---

View attachment 804355
Having heard that there were a bunch of cyborgs nearby, Heavy Metal, Inc. Party Fleets™ completed a complementary grand tour through the periphery of QA Core space to bring the noise to the local Jira-Goblins. We made a quick pilgrimage over to the black hole they had (because it's cool!), then on the way home ended up doing an impromptu encore tour (with a surprise stop at their homeworld!) when they asked for more.

Pour one out for our little Groupies. They wanted to be free, but the pyrotechnics show near the Dashboard seem to have given the QA Core a taste of the party life, and people say they're planning on a bash so huge it'll blow up the galaxy.

Metal.

Pure genius!

 

[Dracupuncture]

We're not done with the unity rework, we anticipate and have planned to have to tweak things contiuinely going forward (Post launch I am expecting at the very least to adjust numbers for balance reasons) We've just hit what we can manage in the time we have left.

The Open beta was a great success but only a single digit percentage of the total players participated. so we'd be foolish not to give ourselves some room to maneuever once it hits the mainstream playerbase.


What to do about Influence is also being discussed, but the rework is only one part of a much grander scheme.

this is perfect; transparency like this is nothing but a boon for paradox, so thank you!

 

[Enfield_PDX]

I find the closing of the feedback period, then this dev diary having little information on changes being made in major mechanics, rather worrying. Spiritualists getting a little buff and edict fund improvements are nice, but it looks like with the 3.3.1 changes, things will still be fundamentally broken, and there's a lot unanswered about the approach being taken for many other problems from the beta.

Disappointing to see that the beta feedback only led to limited, numbers-based changes. The takeaway from the beta response should have been "the Planetary Ascenssion system needs more time in the oven altogether", considering everyone agrees it's completely flavorless, uninteresting and adds needless micro.

I feel like this is a Failure on our part to communicate the intent of the beta and how it works with the custodians release schedule + our future plans for Stellaris.

In short, the Beta was intended to gather feedback to see if the rework was viable, if it achieved our aims for the game (I would detail them but that's more of an Eldarin thing). As of 3.3.1 while not perfect, we are of the belief that it does improve the state of the game but this does not mean we are done improving it!

However, to build the foundations of Stellaris' future we need to maintain our release cadence of reliable updates from the Custodian team. I understand the fear of Asecnsion Tiers staying as they are forever for example, we've had times in the past where there have been big gaps between patches.

But that's not how things work now, That does not mean don't critique or let us know what is or isn't working for you. That helps us keep track of what we should be focusing on, but it does mean keeping the new state of Stellaris in mind.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Troyen]

Yeah, it seems apparent the Stellaris team has switched more to a service-style iteration method, with a ~3-4 month deployment cadence. What doesn't get fully finished in time for one patch can be refined and adjusted in the next, with continuous improvement in the game over time. This means on the one hand, we'll sometimes get systems that feel unpolished (e.g. planetary ascension), but on the other hand, we get more predictable and regular releases so we won't have to wait a largely unknown time or until a major dlc to see further changes.

My guess is 3.4 is thus tentatively targeted for late-May/early-June, though with Swedish holidays around then, I'm not sure if they'll bump it until after their break.

 

[Ikael]

Really great update, and with a delicious, unexpected (albeit necessary) boost to psionic ascension to boot. Yeah, there are not too many differences from the Beta, but the thing is to make it into part of the "official" game, and the improvement from it is noticeable (empire sprawl avoiding snowballing, unity being actually useful, etc).

There are a lot of other things that I wish would get looked at by the Custodian team, many of them related to Unity: Planet ascensions and tall builds, espionage, internal politics, leader system, psi ascension, spiritualists in general... but I understand that resources are finite and they can't do everything at once. I am just glad to see that Paradox is clearly responding to user feedback and that these issues will (eventually) be tackled and improved in the future.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Nevars]

Edict funds were made to make tall empires more viable since for them edict funds can cover much more edicts than for wide empires, and allow for some savings in terms of unity. Wide empires still have more production so they are still better than tall.

So is there any justification of Imperial cult to be specific tall only civic then?

Not that I disagree with your explanation of edict fund tho.

 

[Eladrin]

Yeah, it seems apparent the Stellaris team has switched more to a service-style iteration method, with a ~3-4 month deployment cadence. What doesn't get fully finished in time for one patch can be refined and adjusted in the next, with continuous improvement in the game over time. This means on the one hand, we'll sometimes get systems that feel unpolished (e.g. planetary ascension), but on the other hand, we get more predictable and regular releases so we won't have to wait a largely unknown time or until a major dlc to see further changes.

My guess is 3.4 is thus tentatively targeted for late-May/early-June, though with Swedish holidays around then, I'm not sure if they'll bump it until after their break.

I'd say this is pretty accurate. One of the best parts of the Custodian cadence is knowing that we'll have an update approximately once every three months.

 

[Jman5]

I wasn't able to get this into the feedback in time, but I wish you would add Sectors to Empire Size. Sectors would help better differentiate small, dense empires versus large, diffuse empires. The number would have to be rather chonky; greater than 10 at least.

I also think it's worth considering adding subject empires into the Empire Size at a greatly reduced value. Perhaps 10-25% of the total value. You could give subject empires themselves a similar discount to help give them a bit of a catch-up mechanic.

 

[Archael90]

The worst thing 3.3 brings (imo) is essentialy destroying "death cult" civic. Death priests produces less unity than regular priests, sacrificial temples (their upgraded verions) costs more rare resourcess to maintain, and death cult edicts give almost nothing, especially if you will not invest in sacrificial temples for reasons i wrote above.
Maybe one temple, with one cultists to increase unity production for 10% at cost of one population may be a nice deal in very wide empires and lot of planets benefiting from +5% pop growth after using edict... at the same time not as wide so that edict cost would be higher than potetial bonus it gives (minerals/energy and happiness bonusses are even less worth).
But i may be wrong and i havnt seen any changes regarding death cult civic in patchnotes, then im sorry.