A tutorial aar? Excellent idea! I remember how complex this game felt when i first tried it, so this will be helpfull to the beginners. Keep the updates coming! 
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Agreed. And we should spread the word, to ahve as many contruibuters, as nobody knows everything, but everybody knows something.Von Perkele said:A tutorial aar? Excellent idea! I remember how complex this game felt when i first tried it, so this will be helpfull to the beginners. Keep the updates coming!
Also you might want to mentoin at some point that you can use hotkeys for certain buildings. i = Industry, c = Coastal Forts l = Land Forts n = Infrastructure, a = AA and so on. Does anyone have the rest?
Those hotkeys automatically add those buildings to the production queue, correct?trekaddict said:
Ironhead 5 said:
Partially. When you click on a province and press the hotkey the building will automatically be constructed and placed in that province. Very useful when you build the Atlantic wall.
Next update will be the production folder. What is the conventional wisdom in this commuity concerning production sliders? What I usually do is this:
Parallel build 9x transports.
Upgrade my old aircraft.
Store the rest of my IC in supplies.
One of the points that I am going to make is that investing in increased supply production is like "storing" IC for later use. Since we do not have modern infantry, armor, aircraft, submarines, etc, we could put our IC toward supplies; and then, when we do get modern weaponry, we can invest as much in military production as possible while living off of the supplies we had created previously.
But we could also invest in rocket sites (those don't get upgraded), or whatever. I want to hear what the community thinks are build plan should be for the first couple years.
Parallel build 9x transports.
Upgrade my old aircraft.
Store the rest of my IC in supplies.
One of the points that I am going to make is that investing in increased supply production is like "storing" IC for later use. Since we do not have modern infantry, armor, aircraft, submarines, etc, we could put our IC toward supplies; and then, when we do get modern weaponry, we can invest as much in military production as possible while living off of the supplies we had created previously.
But we could also invest in rocket sites (those don't get upgraded), or whatever. I want to hear what the community thinks are build plan should be for the first couple years.
When playing Germany I always invest every bit of IC I can spare in the first year in factories, the rest goes for upgrades.
Ah yes, the infamous "IC-whoring." I acknowledge that is the best course of action; but some may consider it gamey, and thus I will abstain from doing so.trekaddict said:
But I will mention in the next update that IC-whoring is nominally the best course of action.
Regarding builds, I usually keep a long serial run of 10 rocket facilities at the bottom of the priority list as a 'soak' so that I can ignore my IC slider alone- those rocket facilities will get built just fine if I let them run at 50% efficiency. This also allows me to devote extra production to money or supplies without infringing on builds with a deadline, or those that I want finished simultaneously.
Diminishing returns mean only 6 or 7 of those rocket facilities are necessary for the bulk of the benefit they provide, so you can stop production if absolutely necessary.
I don't upgrade my old aircraft until 1939 models are available, though I will usually build new ones- upgrading from level 0 to level 2 is nearly twice as efficient as upgrading to level 1 before the later models are researched.
9 parallel transports isn't as efficient as 9 serial transports. You don't need them all until mid-1939 anyway, so you might as well make use of the gearing bonus, especially with your current standing/drafting slider position, while you can.
Diminishing returns mean only 6 or 7 of those rocket facilities are necessary for the bulk of the benefit they provide, so you can stop production if absolutely necessary.
I don't upgrade my old aircraft until 1939 models are available, though I will usually build new ones- upgrading from level 0 to level 2 is nearly twice as efficient as upgrading to level 1 before the later models are researched.
9 parallel transports isn't as efficient as 9 serial transports. You don't need them all until mid-1939 anyway, so you might as well make use of the gearing bonus, especially with your current standing/drafting slider position, while you can.
I actually don't upgrade at all untill late 1938. That way you can profit from the lower cost on double and triple upgrades. I only start to upgrade when i have imp. medium tanks and 39' infantry.
As Germany if i'm trying to play rather historically and not exploit too much, i start with just 1 round of about 6-8 IC and start building the BBs and BCs right away. As my IC start to grow from lower dissent and new techs i add CLs, and long runs of SSs and DDs. As soon as i research basic interceptor i start long builds of that. Same with CAS and eventually 39 infantry and MOT.
I also use the rocket build at the botton strategy. This is actually a nice tip but maybe not too suited for newbies since it takes a while to understand =P.
Another tip would be to always queue 99 units of everything you buid. It is always better to just cancel then to lose on potential gearing bonus.
As Germany if i'm trying to play rather historically and not exploit too much, i start with just 1 round of about 6-8 IC and start building the BBs and BCs right away. As my IC start to grow from lower dissent and new techs i add CLs, and long runs of SSs and DDs. As soon as i research basic interceptor i start long builds of that. Same with CAS and eventually 39 infantry and MOT.
I also use the rocket build at the botton strategy. This is actually a nice tip but maybe not too suited for newbies since it takes a while to understand =P.
Another tip would be to always queue 99 units of everything you buid. It is always better to just cancel then to lose on potential gearing bonus.
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Hmm, Well in my current, freshly started Britain Game I build several runs of IC for the first two years, then Infantry and Tanks.
Regarding the use of an IC soak at the bottom of the build queue, I don't think many people are aware that if a build is reduced to 0% efficiency, it loses all of its gearing bonus. This may not mean too much for units that take a long time to build or aren't part of a long serial run, but the last thing you want to use as a soak is a long infantry run, especially in countries leaning towards drafted army and other gearing related sliders.
dublish said:
That is why you use the rocket facility =P.
Also, i believe you lose gearing bonus if the production falls bellow 100%, isn't it?
OK, got the rocket site serial run as a soak. Too easy.
As for IC-whoring, I didn't know that had come back in vogueo I'm sorry trekaddict, I didn't mean to offend you, it's just that I had always assumed IC-whoring was something that minor-majors did to stay competitive. We certainly don't need it as Germany, and I think it may give us an unfair "gamey" advantage.
That said, if "conventional wisdom" (as measured by comments on this thread from the AAR community) dictates that IC-whoring is justifiable, and is morally acceptable to teach to novices just learning this game, then I will execute that.
As for Kayapo's navy builds... really? You build BBs and BCs without researching a later model? And short-range subs? That almost seems like handicapping ourselves on the other end of the spectrum, by tying ourselves down to a crappy navy. I'm all about a large U-boat navy, but let's research the 1938 model first?
And I was leaning toward holding back on the upgrades until the next round of models were researched, but I didn't know what else to do with the IC. No problem, we can hold off on the upgrade.
So, awaiting further suggestions for about 12 hours, but right now we are looking at:
9x transports in serial run.
10x rocket site in serial run as a soak at the bottom.
Naval builds???
or should we go toward infantry?
or IC-whoring?
or invest a large chunk in supplies?
As for IC-whoring, I didn't know that had come back in vogue
o I'm sorry trekaddict, I didn't mean to offend you, it's just that I had always assumed IC-whoring was something that minor-majors did to stay competitive. We certainly don't need it as Germany, and I think it may give us an unfair "gamey" advantage.That said, if "conventional wisdom" (as measured by comments on this thread from the AAR community) dictates that IC-whoring is justifiable, and is morally acceptable to teach to novices just learning this game, then I will execute that.
As for Kayapo's navy builds... really? You build BBs and BCs without researching a later model? And short-range subs? That almost seems like handicapping ourselves on the other end of the spectrum, by tying ourselves down to a crappy navy. I'm all about a large U-boat navy, but let's research the 1938 model first?
And I was leaning toward holding back on the upgrades until the next round of models were researched, but I didn't know what else to do with the IC. No problem, we can hold off on the upgrade.
So, awaiting further suggestions for about 12 hours, but right now we are looking at:
9x transports in serial run.
10x rocket site in serial run as a soak at the bottom.
Naval builds???
or should we go toward infantry?
or IC-whoring?
or invest a large chunk in supplies?
I wasn't offended at all.
If you have some to spare put IC on supplies and consumer goods. Both money and supplies are excellent trade goods for the SU as Germany has a chronical shortage of rares, even worse than oil. ( At least in Armageddon 1.2 )
If you have some to spare put IC on supplies and consumer goods. Both money and supplies are excellent trade goods for the SU as Germany has a chronical shortage of rares, even worse than oil. ( At least in Armageddon 1.2 )
Yes, in DD1.3a the rare shortage is far more urgent than oil. Already got my "trade deals" lesson thought out.trekaddict said:
Infantry shouldn't be built at this point. They have a relatively cheap initial cost (~10 IC for ~90 days) but a relatively large supply cost once they're done. Investing in supplies isn't a bad idea, but I'd like to know where you stand on naval and air techs. I don't have HoI2 installed (Ironhead 5 said:
o ) at the moment, so I can't check myself.If you intend to use paratroopers, this might be a good time to build a couple of transports for them.
IC whoring is definitly something that is not meant for minors. At least at the beggining. When you have 20-30IC, you don't want to waste 5IC (16.6-25%) of your IC so that next year you might have 21 or 31 IC. Especialy if you are in Europe. Then you better start building inf from the start and conquering your neigbours to get IC.Ironhead 5 said:As for IC-whoring, I didn't know that had come back in vogue
IC builds are only good for those in 70IC+ class. They can invest in 10 new factories.
Ironhead 5 said:
You start the game already with 38' BBs, BCs, CAs and CLs those are already the level you want for the war. The next level of BBs is 40' or 41' IIRC.
Either way, those are the Bismark class, Hipper class etc..all historical builds =).
From a pure gameplay point of view it would be better to not build BCs at all since they aren't very good, but i do it anyway. Role-play and handicap.
If you start two BBs at game start they will finish right around the time you want to be either mass producing 39' infantry or upgrade your units. Usually though i leave 2 paralel runs of BBs running for pretty much the whole game. CAs and CLs with FC brigades are also pretty amazing together if you don't mind exploiting the whole combat range thing. In any case the only naval research you'll be doing for a while is 38' DDs, 38' SSs and 39' CVL.
As for the subs, i don't mass produce the VII model, but i usually like to produce enough of them to feel historical. Waiting for the 38' model makes sense of course, but i like the role-playing side too much sometimes
( the VII model sub is not really short range though. It is actually rather usefull)For a newbie that wants gameplay efficiency you start the game with 2 CAs without FC and you get one more in the first week if you don't take it out of the queue. You also already have 1 good 38' CL. That is a good start to a cruisezerg fleet. Just a few ships shy.
So that pretty much sums it up for my early builds there if trying to be historical. 6-8 factories. BBs, BCs and CAs. (i build BBs and BCs without FC brigades and CAs with. That way they all have pretty much the same combat range) and subs.
Ironhead 5 said:
My personal choice at game start for Germany.
6-8 IC single run. I usually put them in provinces near Poland. Not that it matter that much but makes sense to be away from the Allied bombing.
-2 paralel runs of 99 BBs. As i said these are improved models already at game start. I usually don't ever take these out of production.
-2 paralel runs of 99 BCs. I build these for flavor. A player that wants efficiency should pass on them.
-1 run of 99 CAs with FC brigade. Cheap, good and efficient.
-2 runs of 99 CLs with FC brigade. Cheap good and efficient. Sometimes i just have to use these with the starting CAs Germany has and make a zergfleet
-3 paralel runs of lvIII SS. Again, i do it for flavor, although they aren't scrap metal they will be usefull. Actually i find that if you are going for a convoy raiding tactic it doesn't really matter if they are lvIII or lvIV SS, if a ASW fleet gets to them you'll lose one or two uboats everytime. I do replace these runs with the later model when i research it. I don't kill the run in the middle though, i wait for the last batch to come and then i switch.
- 99 rocket facilities. This stays in the botton the whole time.
As soon as i research basic INT
- 2 paralel runs of 99 INT
As soon as i research basic CAS
- 2 paralel runs of 99 CAS
As soon as i research basic fighter
- 2 paralel runs of Fighter
I also build sea transports in the beggining when i need to fill in waiting for some research to finish.
The key researchs that when done change my build list considerably are MOT inf. 39' INF and 39 medium tanks. I try to get all these by at least July 38.
If everything goes well i'm done with my navy building, except for subs and DDs witch i just leave building (and sometimes the BBs too). I'm done building my interceptors and CAS and probably done with most of the miscelaneous stuff too.
In 38 your IC gets a huge boost because of Austria and Sudetland(sp?), right on time to start your mass producing of INF and your mobile troops.
Also in 38 i start to upgrade my units, since now i have all the techs i wanted and will profit greatly from the double upgrade jumps.
Now that i think about it, if you are trying to teach people to play then you should warn them that all these fancy building units is nice and pretty but from a gameplay only view you'll do a lot better building IC for 3 years, then mass producing Infantry and roll over everyone. :rofl:
Don't stack supplies before the spanish civil war, you'll lose it all anyway. I don't usually stack suplies too much anyway. I use all i can to trade for rares and oil.
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