[MOD] Princes of Darkness

[r3xm0rt1s]

Why not, at some point when you have time, hard caping a limit of 1 domain per character

I would not get your hopes up. Level seven duchy building, ventrue rulership legacy, Rome's special building and several other clan/path objective rewards did not get an increase to domain limit by accident. Conversely, some houses even get penalties to it. 61 development is more or less a pipe dream without something like no development penalty from county development mod, which breaks* feudal contracts in Princes of Darkness as well. But religious protection was not working anyway so whatever.

*Specifically, it makes everything but tax rate not count in the liege's or the vassal's favour and permits changing up to everything at once.

 

[DahndI]

I understand the 1 domain limit is too strong. I'm still seeing characters with 7-8 domain limit. Like Lord Japhet I think had 7 at some point in my current playthrough. Maybe I'm mistaken with another lord but I definitely saw a character or two with 7-8 domain limit.

Weak. I usually end up with 12.

 

[flintsparc]

Herd management would deserve it's own menu at some point in the future.

Like this?

Fixing the ages of vampire would be cool as well. But maybe you have a hard coded cap you can't break. Like Helena of Troy should be way older than 1170ish years old.

Never ask a Goddess her age.

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

Should be 'manipulate herd'? Or 'mainipulate' is some World of Darkness pun?

 

[flintsparc]

Should be 'manipulate herd'? Or 'mainipulate' is some World of Darkness pun?

Thank you. I missed that somehow.

Fixed now!

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

Are revenants supposed to lose prowess from age? I found one in his eighties, quite young by expected revenant lifespans, with -33 prowess from old age.

 

[karde]

Prowess loss from age has been disabled defines wise (meaning for the whole game) in the mod. So even mortals shouldn't lose it. That's a weird issue.

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

Prowess loss from age has been disabled defines wise (meaning for the whole game) in the mod. So even mortals shouldn't lose it. That's a weird issue.

Ah good to know. Then it is likely a mod compatibility issue. Hunter trait has no prowess loss still though.

Oh and yes it afflicts vampires too.

 

[Golf India]

I like the "This Character is Ancient", a nice flavor touch.

Regarding the Herd Menu, it's interesting you want the player to be able to influence the resonance of the herd.
A simple yet useful UI tweak would be if you could indicate in the herd menu what's your current herd size and what is your maximum herd size.
That would be nice

In my playthrough with Helena of Troy, I am 10 counties away from restoring the Byzantine Empire (I've renamed "The Dream" into "Eternal Beauty" so she is the "Empress of Eternal Beauty"). I'm suffering since 45 years from the Gangrel Debuff "Collapse of Civilization" and I must say this debuff seriously stalled the Non Gangrel world. An awful lot of peasant uprisings, the realms that had a fragile economy collapsed and have been eaten by stronger economies (regardless of realm size). It didn't reshuffle dramatically the landscape but it did accelerate the demise of the fragiles. Now, 1400 is like 5-10 years away so I'm curious to see how the rise of Inquisition on top of the "Collapse of Civilization" debuff will play out. Regarding this debuff, it scared the shit out of me when it triggered (I immediatly murdered the Gangrel involved as I thought maybe it would delete the debuff, but it didn't xD). I think it's a very nice debuff. It significantly impacts the game by reducing your income by 99% for 100 years. I was lucky to have a good treasury of 4.5k gold so with careful expenditure forecast and only waging short wars with minimum levies you can still make small profit out of war. However, any long attrition war requiring all levies raised for years would be suicidal. You can't really invest in buildings that costs gold because the return on investment is an abysmal negative. Lore wise the effects kind of make sense: development is halted (you can't invest in buildings and the development growth is 0), a lot of peasant uprising everywhere, you can't maintain MenAtArms and have to disband all of them expect artillery. Revenue is reduced to a droplet. I think this debuff plays out well, it is strong and powerful so the player is impacted and has to adapt but without killing the game or the fun. It's a nice challenging debuff I would say.

I had an issue with a Malkavian vassal in Sicily who, even though he had no hook on me whatsoever and no primogen rights, kept forcing himself into the council. Which would have been fine if he was any good but he wasn't. I ended up murdering him to stop the nuisance. I thought it was some sort of bug. His heir did the same, replacing my 34 Intrigue spymaster with his 8... So I thought maybe it's a Malkavian perk, I didn't want to revoke him and suffer double -20 tyranny on top of risking a long war in an environment where the maximum profit you can make is 0.9 gold per month (thanks, "collapse of civilization" xD). I also didn't want to spend years murdering all the sicilian malkavians. So I fabricated a hook and imprisoned him. Because, seriously? This guy really thought he could force his will to the Empress of Eternal Beauty? He's going to spend the next couple millenias in my dungeon thinking about it. So! Those Malkavians able to force their access to the Council without any hook : feature or bug? My guess is that it's a feature, and it's a funny one. I can't imagine how messy it would be to have more than one Malkavian direct vassal xD.

Regarding the Helena of Troy difficulty I'm not sure it's medium. It's for sure a lot of fun, but it's also not so hard. Except from gay men and straight females everyone absolutely adores you on sight, you can murder almost any one in the game easily. Nobody will ever come close to succeeding in a scheme against you. And cherry on the cake, she can quickly surround herself with the best vampires in the game via fabricate hook as long as you pick bisexual or homosexual women and straight men. I have 20 champions, none of them has prowess under 80. The World will be Mine and the World will Adore me. I totally picture the Most Beautiful Woman in Human History, surrounded by the Most Powerful Vampires of Vampire History, at her feet, drooling in sexual desire. Helena of Troy thematic definitely works as intended

 

[Golf India]

And a quick remark regarding ghouls and revenants: do you think you can stop them from getting fat like vampires? I told Prias numerous times to do some exercise but he won't listen to me and I have to say he's quite a heavy fella at the moment. "What happened to your fantastic abs my dear Prias?" "There are still there my love, beneath 50 cm of fat..."

 

[karde]

1/ Collapse of Civilization is a result of the Gangrel achieving their objective. While it works well in my opinion, it happens too often since Northern Lords where something broke the Gangrel's balance to make them that powerful. We have taken steps in the dev build to curb them a little. Though we aren't entirely sure of what exactly happened to them in NL to be honest.

2/ It's a issue often reported, but we have no clues how it happens honestly. We haven't changed a thing about councilors and hooks. Malkavians aren't the only one affected.

3/ I agree that Helena is easy for a player knowing the mod. But the difficulty rating is intended for new players fresh from CK3. If you play like CK3, that is declaring war day 1 on Menele with no intrigue before, you will lose quickly. It's not the case of, say, Mithras, where you can pretty much play like vanilla CK3 and still succeeds (since his starting loyal cast of knights is enough to pretty much never have an issue).

4/ It should certainly be doable to stop ghouls and such becoming fat. I will add it to my to do list.

 

[DahndI]

I had an issue with a Malkavian vassal in Sicily who, even though he had no hook on me whatsoever and no primogen rights, kept forcing himself into the council. Which would have been fine if he was any good but he wasn't. I ended up murdering him to stop the nuisance. I thought it was some sort of bug. His heir did the same, replacing my 34 Intrigue spymaster with his 8... So I thought maybe it's a Malkavian perk, I didn't want to revoke him and suffer double -20 tyranny on top of risking a long war in an environment where the maximum profit you can make is 0.9 gold per month (thanks, "collapse of civilization" xD). I also didn't want to spend years murdering all the sicilian malkavians. So I fabricated a hook and imprisoned him. Because, seriously? This guy really thought he could force his will to the Empress of Eternal Beauty? He's going to spend the next couple millenias in my dungeon thinking about it. So! Those Malkavians able to force their access to the Council without any hook : feature or bug? My guess is that it's a feature, and it's a funny one. I can't imagine how messy it would be to have more than one Malkavian direct vassal xD

I had this issue and it seems to only occur with "inherited" vassals (you take a title and the vassal follows with his old contract still valid.) I suspect that somehow the AI has access to the vanilla contract negotiations or an event that grants them council rights when doing AI on AI diplomacy or blackmail because when you take their land, in my case a worthless county-level wannabe steward, and then give it back, the issue disappears. Because they have access to the vanilla contract of council rights somehow, and you only to the custom one, they can keep putting themselves on the council with you being unable to change it.

 

[Golf India]

Yes I had the issue with another Vassal, non Malkavian, also decaying in my dungeon for the next millenia or two. I don't like the revocation cheese tip so I don't use it. I'll use a save to confirm if it works or not.

Yes it does seem that the PoD contracts do not work exactly as intended:
Religious Protection: I'm never prevented from asking for conversion or to use convert county.
Revocation Protection: Title revocation protection works.
Progeny rules: They seem to work but I haven't thoroughly checked them.
Kindred Tax: Doesn't seem to do anything either it's childer or vitae or whatnot. But maybe I just missed an interaction menu somewhere.
Primogen Right: Works.

No big deal here anyways, still having a lot of fun with the mod. 1432 now, I own the Bizantine and Italian Empires in full, Inquisition started. 161k levies guy pop right next to me and I'm still under collapse of civilization so it's gonna be interesting. 20 years to go with the debuff. Then 20-40 years or so until control goes back to normal. The Gangrel realms all have doubled or tripled their sizes and are menacing everywhere. This is gonna be fun !

I must say I really love this mod!

I'm already thinking on my next playthrough, might be tempted by Inquisition though it seems the beginning could be a bit slow.

 

[karde]

Looking at the contracts is on Sparc's to do list, so it will happen at some time. There is indeed work to be done here.

An Inquisition playthrough often has a unusual progression curve. You start with very powerful characters, capable of having a lot of work done in their lifetime. But they are mortals, and their heirs have almost no shot at being as good as them, which can cause issues if you aren't prepared.

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

Matasuntha went Alpha and boy does this hurt. My marshall has 70 martial and cannot even keep my capital above 0. Might be interesting if open rule was good enough to counter this to give an incentive to build this otherwise horrid building and worry about the consequences later, hostile scheme resistance malus can really stack bad once you have 20 domains. Hypothetically a county like Rome with sufficient baronies to stack control growth might work, barons having bad scheme resistance does not matter. Come to think of it, London should too if I build it up, it is time for more experiments.

Newly landed rulers do not gain the modifier though, so at least my childe can give me tax income. It is a weird feeling getting most of my gold from vassal tax.

Looking at the contracts is on Sparc's to do list, so it will happen at some time. There is indeed work to be done here.

An Inquisition playthrough often has a unusual progression curve. You start with very powerful characters, capable of having a lot of work done in their lifetime. But they are mortals, and their heirs have almost no shot at being as good as them, which can cause issues if you aren't prepared.

Inquisitors start in weak positions though, but with a little bit of conquest can easily snowball in number, once the big boss exceeds his domain limit and starts handing out counties to hunters who recruit more hunters, at least for the Red Order. And it seems throwing more inquisitors at a vampire, no matter how old, powerful or connected, is bound to get them eventually.

 

[Golf India]

I'll have a go at this once I'm done with Helena of Troy.

1470s at the moment.

I must say Inquisition + Anarch revolt at the same time is very funny to handle. Inquisition owns Egypt, Syria, Persia and Galicia. Got England for a while but that was bigger that they could chew so ended up conquered by... Brittany hahahahaha. Mithras is holed up in Ireland, probably fuming in anger. They tried several time to conquer me but 29 champions with >80 Prowess is absolutely godlike. This army of legendary vampires is just unbeatable. I defeated 100k+ armies with 7k levies and those 29 living gods. Do you know if there are any ways your ruler can join a fight? Even when I set the ruler commander of the army, the ruler won't fight. I think this has nothing to do with your mod, it's a CK3 restriction no?

Anarch got what is now Algeria, Morocco and Central Europe. Took me some time and tons of fabricate hook but I managed to purge all Anarch faith from my lands except one Duchy. Very stubborn duke there. In jail rotting at the moment but won't convert. His loss. I'll handle him once my tyranny drops a bit (currently around 70... those Anarchs uh...).

Gangrels are still huge, they crushed the few Inquisition counties that popped and didn't suffer from Anarch revolt. They own what was USSR home territory + Scandinavia, Poland, the Baltic States and are coming down hard on the remaining Tzimisce Realms. You should code a "Create the Iron Curtain Block decision" because they are very close to achieving it ! hahahahahaha

My guess is that the last big event is gonna be the creation of Camarilla and Sabbat? I'll probably go through that and then stop my playthrough with Helena, unless you have coded more big story development?

So much fun, guys, thanks again !

 

[karde]

Yes, rulers not being able to use their prowess in battle is a CK3 limitation.

The Sabbat formation is the last big narrative event in the mod (it happens several years after the convention of thorns).

 

[Golf India]

My marshall has 70 martial and cannot even keep my capital above 0

Yeah the collapse of civilization is something. At the beginning I was netting a whooping 0.9g profit per month. You can make money via war but you have to be very Sun Tzu about it: very short wars against counties or duchies with high looting value. You can still expand, but have to do it carefully, forget buying buildings costing gold. Expansion grants vassals which grant money. At the end of the debuff I was netting 10g profit per month but I was owning both Byzantine and Italian empires in full. Not giving any kingdom titles to my vassals to maximize quantity of vassals and therefor money. Ransoming was my main source of income, then looting. I started with 4.5k treasury and had 2k at the end of the debuff which isn't too bad, the main expenses where usurping and creating titles, also calling hunts to decrease stress. 100 years is a very long time and then it's going to take a couple of decades to get that control back up to workable levels. Inquisition started 20 years or so before the end of the debuff, so a little brown alert here, and right at the end of the debuff the Anarch Revolt popped. Challenging times, which suits the lore very well.

I guess the smaller you are the hardest it hits, I was lucky to be big and rich. It's doable, it's scary and challenging but definitely doable.

Good luck with that debuff!

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

5 and 6 barony counties can be built to have enough + control to counter -10 control growth in high medieval era. Mind, 5 baronies will not sustain and needs a good marshall too. Beggars cannot avoid micromanagement. I unlocked cranes before I could finish up all baronies in Rome and it was too frustrating to try and upgrade the night watch since 100 development does not permit steward to speed it up. Night watch, open rule and lawgivers, the last is especially funny as it gives massive modifier, so when I finally dragged Kiev's control growth positive, it went +20 per month. I am uncertain if this is in any way reasonable without a building slot mod though. It is also very expensive as the barons will not have money to build (or know what to build).

But mostly I just wish AI built its duchy capital buildings.

 

[karde]

"But mostly I just wish AI built its duchy capital buildings."

We have very few modding capabilities regarding AI and buildings. There is nothing we can do here, not even brute force it (we can't replace buildings, and the duchy capital isn't technically in a holding, so we can't do anything with it either)