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Naufragus

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Speaking of herding vampires. I noticed that you can kill mortals, ghouls by over feeding on them. So I thought hey! nice way to get rid of people without getting kinslayer. So I Drank it All and kept repeating. They went to frenzy as far as hunger goes but never had the stressed out version that wraiths them, If you keep feeding after level 5 another trait pops up at level one and grows to 5 and then another one starts. So it seems nigh impossible to destroy another vampire via feeding or force them to have an obvious frenzy. But they end up having multiple hunger modifers

Adding the portrait modifer that makes them pale is a really nice touch though
 
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Lord Asgar

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Hello again, friends. A question. I've been looking into the Assamite ideological division/"civil war". Seems like a really interesting situation. How come the Lost Tribe's leader follows the Zoroastrian Road of Heaven, though? They don't have their own religion? Your flavortext says they worship the Second Generation. I don't know much about the Lost Tribe, but research says they later became the Sabbat's original Black Hand, and also developed the Path of Caine. But from what I understand, the Black Hand was eventually taken over by the "True Black Hand", which actually worships the Antediluvians, while the Black Hand wanted them destroyed. The True Black Hand do have their own religion family in the mod, but of course, their goals ironically are the complete opposite. Is there anything special about the Lost Tribe if they don't have a religion of their own, gameplaywise?
 

karde

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The Lost Tribe has nothing special about them right now. As you say, they probably would deserve their own religion and objective.

Since there is no specific religion for them, I defaulted Dastur Anosh to Zoroastrianism, since he was a follower of this religion in life.
 
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I thought he was black hand? (unless mixing with someone else)
 

karde

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He is Lost Tribe, then Black Hand when the Sabbat forms. Then the Tal'mahe'Ra "corrupts" the Black Hand and he is back to being independent. So in the mod, 1230, he leads the Lost Tribe around Persia.
 

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So then what exactly is the point of selecting "I drink from other Vampires" during the character creation event chain? Because selecting bloodleech gives you some benefits, like free Protean and Blood Potency +1, but if there is no actual game rule preventing you from drinking Mortal blood and lowering your hunger with Mortal blood, then is it just a role-playing thing? Or do you never gain resonance experience from drinking Mortals if you are a bloodleech, and this is therefore the down-side?
Some faiths regard Blood Leech predator type as a crime. It starts as a secret, and then you could be blackmailed over it. For a good example of this, look at L.A. By Night and the character
Jasper
who has the blood leech predator type. Predator types don't restrict the character on who they can feed upon and what resonance they get. But it more represents their preferred style of hunting. We hope to add more events to in the future. It also determines some things for NPCs like which Sabbat Path of Enlightenment they pick.
 

flintsparc

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Speaking of herding vampires. I noticed that you can kill mortals, ghouls by over feeding on them. So I thought hey! nice way to get rid of people without getting kinslayer. So I Drank it All and kept repeating. They went to frenzy as far as hunger goes but never had the stressed out version that wraiths them, If you keep feeding after level 5 another trait pops up at level one and grows to 5 and then another one starts. So it seems nigh impossible to destroy another vampire via feeding or force them to have an obvious frenzy. But they end up having multiple hunger modifers

Adding the portrait modifer that makes them pale is a really nice touch though
We didn't anticipate you would try to thwart execution methods of prisoners to avoid kinslayer trait by herding slurping your vampire prisoners to death. We will do something about that and also still not allow you to get away with not getting kinslayer.
 

trias10

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As a Vampire ruler, is it possible to have vassals who are Prince-Bishoprics or Republics? I tried to grant a county title to a Mayor in the hopes of creating a Republic (this is how I remember doing it in vanilla CK2), but something odd happened in that he was immediately deposed as ruler and some random Vampire character immediately popped up as the feudal ruler of the county in question.
 

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As a Vampire ruler, is it possible to have vassals who are Prince-Bishoprics or Republics? I tried to grant a county title to a Mayor in the hopes of creating a Republic (this is how I remember doing it in vanilla CK2), but something odd happened in that he was immediately deposed as ruler and some random Vampire character immediately popped up as the feudal ruler of the county in question.
I dont think that works in any CK3? not just mods
 

flintsparc

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As a Vampire ruler, is it possible to have vassals who are Prince-Bishoprics or Republics? I tried to grant a county title to a Mayor in the hopes of creating a Republic (this is how I remember doing it in vanilla CK2), but something odd happened in that he was immediately deposed as ruler and some random Vampire character immediately popped up as the feudal ruler of the county in question.
We allow vampires to hold church and city holdings.
CK3 vanilla republics and theocracies are not playable. There isn't much in the way of mechanics for them yet.
If they character you landed was one without their world of darkness traits (vampire, ghoul, revenant, hunter or mortal), I'm not surprised they were replaced by a vampire. We populate all the baronies and the counties we have not specified with characters in the history files via a script that runs at game start and perpetually through the length of the game.
 

trias10

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But I'm not trying to play as a republic or theocracy, merely create one as a vassal to my Vampire feudal ruler. Republic vassals pay more in taxes, so they're advantageous.

My question is two parts really:

How can I create a republic/prince-bishopric vassal to a feudal ruler in vanilla CK3? And is this process any different for the POD mod?


I don't have much time with CK3 (vanilla or POD), but I have several hundred hours in CK2. In CK2, you could create a republic very easily, all you had to do was grant the county level title to the mayor of a city holding inside that county. So for example:

My feudal ruler holds the County of Durham. The county of Durham has one city holding (a barony level title held by Mayor Bob) and a temple holding (a barony level title held by Bishop Dave). Let's say I want to give away the title of County of Durham because I'm over my demesne limit. If I want to turn the entire county into a republic, all I have to do is right click on Mayor Bob, select Grant Title, and grant him County of Durham. Since he is already the Mayor of a city holding inside Durham, he immediately becomes a Lord Mayor (or whatever its called) and the whole county becomes a republic which is vassal to me. The castle holding in the county becomes populated by a randomly generated character.

I tried doing exactly this last night in my POD game, and it did not work, I was not able to create a republic vassal.

Hence my question is, is this how you create a republic vassal in vanilla CK3, and if yes, does it work differently in POD? Or if this is not how it works even in vanilla CK3, could someone please explain to me how it does work now?
 

trias10

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As far as I know you can't create republics or bishoprics vassals in vanilla CK3. We haven't changed anything here for the mod.


It appears that you can, and it works the same way as it did for CK2, with the additional complexity of county capitals, but otherwise it's fairly easy to do, I tested it a bunch of times in vanilla CK3 earlier today, and put up a post about how to do it on the main forum.

So knowing how to do it in vanilla CK3, I returned to my POD save from earlier and decided to try doing it there, but ran into some problems.

So in my POD save, I have a recently conquered county which has taken me over the demesne limit and I want to make it into a vassal republic. The county has one castle barony (which I own), and one temple and one city. Both the temple and city are held by rulers which have no POD splat. But here's the big deviation from vanilla and the reason I can't create a republic: both the temple and city holders have government type Traditions, which is why I can't create a republic. In vanilla, the city holder should have a republic government, and the temple should have a theocracy government type.

Is this normal in POD? Are all government types Traditions in a POD game? Because these two barony-tier vassals are both "human" (in that they have no POD traits at all, not Mortal, not Vampire, etc), and yet they have a Vampire/POD government type nonetheless. As a feudal Vampire lord, is there some script which makes all your vassals, all the way down to ALL baronies (cities and temples) automatically Traditions in government type? Or is it somehow possible for a Vampire lord to have theocracy and republic government types in vassals (and if yes, why are my cities/temples currently Traditions then)?



Also, I think I may have found an oversight bug in the mod: in vanilla CK3, you can revoke barony-tier titles at Limited Crown Law or higher, with no Tyranny. But in POD, if I try to revoke a barony title from someone, it won't let me because it says something like "You cannot revoke a title because their Vampire feudal contract doesn't allow it". But here's the onion: the POD mod won't allow me to alter a Traditions feudal contract with anyone of barony-tier, it only allows you to do it for Count-tier and above. So you're caught in a catch-22, and you can thus never, ever revoke a barony-tier title as a Vampire, which seems quite wrong to me. Is this a bug/oversight?
 

karde

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Honestly, baronies are almost useless in CK3, even more so than CK2, so we did not do much about them. Yes, the default government is traditions, but those "no splat" rulers you saw will be assigned a splat in the coming years. All characters become either vampire or mortal as time goes on.
I might look into allowing barony level revocation, though you are the first one even noticing it, so it's low priority.
 

r3xm0rt1s

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Also, I think I may have found an oversight bug in the mod: in vanilla CK3, you can revoke barony-tier titles at Limited Crown Law or higher, with no Tyranny. But in POD, if I try to revoke a barony title from someone, it won't let me because it says something like "You cannot revoke a title because their Vampire feudal contract doesn't allow it". But here's the onion: the POD mod won't allow me to alter a Traditions feudal contract with anyone of barony-tier, it only allows you to do it for Count-tier and above. So you're caught in a catch-22, and you can thus never, ever revoke a barony-tier title as a Vampire, which seems quite wrong to me. Is this a bug/oversight?
There are two ways to (re)gain control of baronies. You can murder the holder, though you would have to get their heir before the new baron gets one of their own, imprison and execute both to make it easy (callous + Aachen + pursuit of power = -95% tyranny). Or give the baron some useless county you took from your neighbour.
 

Lord Asgar

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I have a question/suggestion: Have there been considerations what to do to display the ages of ancient vampires properly? From what I understand, many of the characters in the game were around since well into the BC era, but their age is displayed as 1100 or so years at most. I get that this is a mechanical limitation, you gotta set a birth-date in the history files and the game doesn't recognize "negative" years, so 0 AD is the most that can be done.

That said, maybe you could use the same workaround as the Elder Kings mod for CK2 did? They also have immortal characters who are several thousands of years old. The solution they used was to put into the ingame calendar the amount of years since the creation of the world, and then add a little widget next to it that shows how this translates into the more familiar calendar when you hover over it. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the oWoD cosmology objectively runs on creationist logic, so that world is only around 5200 or so years old by the time of the mod? Haven't figured out jomini quite yet, but it seems like setting something like "year 5200 = 1200 AD, add 1 for each year that passes" should be easy enough.

Would make a big difference for flavor and immersion, imo, and also help a lot in differentiating the relative power of older vampires.
 
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karde

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This probably won't happen for several reasons.

- Where to start the calendar? Biblical "timeline" is around -5000 but the WoD easily goes into the -10 000 for some antediluvians origin stories, or even more for some interpretations of Caine's story.

- It would be a massive workload. You would have to change every last history file, from character history (meaning the 1700 entries of those) to titles history (every landing date must be reworked, and we are talking about 150+ files of around 4000 lines each). We also use a lot of date as triggers for specific events (all the Great Persons for example).

- The gain would be minimal. Sure, you would have the exact birth date for old vampires and... that's all. Cool, for sure, but probably not worth spending months on it for us two devs, obviously not doing anything else during that time.

If someone was crazy enough to do the work and give it to us, we would implement it. But I don't see that happening.
 
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Lord Asgar

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Question, is there an Anda invasion properly scripted into the game? I understand they followed the historical route of the Mongol conquests. In my current game, they just remained in Mongolia, though. Does that only happen if you have the Mongol Invasion on in the game rules, maybe? I left it off, as it was by default, fearing that the vanilla event may somehow disturb the mod.

Also, I recently got a friend and VTM veteran into playing the mod. He noticed that sometimes, hooks related to feeding behaviors seem to be strong hooks, which may be a tad too powerful for something that relatively harmless (his example is the consensualist predator type), and that it's odd for vampires to still talk about consuming mortal food and drink during feast events.
 

karde

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Anda are in the game, in Mongolia. They are far less successful than their Mongol counterparts though, and get crushed quite quickly by the Kuei-Jin in the lore. So we are more lacking a Kuei-Jin invasion than an Anda one honestly. To answer you, the Mongol invasion is off by default and is disabled even if on (I think) as it makes no sense roleplay or balance wise in the mod.

We haven't touched the feast event chain. It's a massive beast that has already claimed the willpower of some newcomers modders that tried to help us with it.