2.2 & Megacorp Teasers

[Avian Overlord]

Quality however can be just as dystopian. Think like the Stasi, who used espionage more than numbers.

The Stasi used numbers extensively, having one of the highest agent to civilian ratios of any secret police force.

Under most living standards, the happiness of higher Strata pops counts for more towards this value."

This strikes me as odd. Living standards are a major factor is the happiness of the lower strata, so I can't see a situation where lower strata pops both matter and are unhappy. Perhaps this should be tied to authority, so that democracies have to pay more attention to the general populace.

 

[LoH Khanid]

While everyone has some Police (crime exists everywhere), Egalitarians might not be as good at Crime/Unrest Supresssion on a large Scale. Like after a conquest or while using Xeno Slaves/poor Workers.

That seems like a fair guess. Authoritarians get more crime because happiness is low for lower classes, but get more crime suppression potential. Except, i think it will not balance exactly that way. I think authoritarians will always get more crime anyway, because lower strata population will be more unhappy. Authoritarians get a boost in stability, because they rely less on most on the population for happiness. Crime is irrelevant to most upper class, except if diminish production.

This is why i think that Police State civic is less about crime suppression and more about secret police type. The job of the secret police is less about crime and more about squashing dissenters that threatens the status quo (stability) of the governing bodies. You can still have enforcers, you just have more stability potential.

So when authoritarians invade worlds, they still have high stability even if crime skyrocket on the planet. Egalitarians would need to invest more ressources to get more stability for the planet because living standards are better, but crime will be low because happiness will be high.

 

[Avian Overlord]

Between crime and unemployment, it looks like authoritarian will actually get some attraction factors in Le Guin.

 

[FleetingRain]

- and what it has to do with Marxism? If you want to RP "your marxism" you could do that with any kind of ethos combinations from religious to xenophobe and militarist.

Is it really that hard to understand that an ethic whose strength lies in something antithetical to a certain roleplay, even though the ethic's name fits the roleplay perfectly, will still not be a good roleplay choice?

Would you play a Rome game where all human portraits were changed for spiders?

 

[Madzai]

That seems like a fair guess. Authoritarians get more crime because happiness is low for lower classes, but get more crime suppression potential. Except, i think it will not balance exactly that way. I think authoritarians will always get more crime anyway, because lower strata population will be more unhappy.

But they have a way to deal with crime. It would be interesting to see how it works for egalitarian. For them getting high crime rates should be a very serious matter as they can't deal with them effectively. Will "overrun by crime" be possible for non-conquered works and force egalitarians to "fight crime with higher live standards"(basically subsides them, till they have all they need) or high living standards will be just a bonus, as in current version?

I think authoritarians will always get more crime anyway, because lower strata population will be more unhappy.

Unless they finally have an option that allow them not to have unhappy lower strata. And i'm really hoping for it.

 

[The_Meme_Man]

The Stasi used numbers extensively, having one of the highest agent to civilian ratios of any secret police force.

I thought most of those Stasi agents were spies, not beat cops. Pretty much every civilian in East Germany was a mole for the Stasi, but they weren't in uniform. Though, in that case, that would mean non-enforcer pops can contribute to crime suppression.

 

[Pale Blue]

I am wondering if crime and pirate risk affect each other. Eg if you have high crime on a planet it is more likely to spawn a pirate base near it and if there is a pirate base close to a planet it increases its crime.

 

[nanoboy]

Perhaps a social movement could suddenly invert the weighting of social strata happiness for stability, and then chaos could ensue. It could be a kind of mid-game crisis for some empires.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

Would you play a Rome game where all human portraits were changed for spiders?

...
Do you have the title of that game? Cause I'd gladly play it

 

[Sopbucket]

On a pop level, it affects ethics divergence and crime generation.

It seems a little strange that one of the effects of unhappiness is going to be more unhappiness.

Looking forward to seeing the big picture on Thursday.

 

[Zavaleta]

1. Rowan Kaiser‏ @RowanKaiser 6h6 hours ago
   Replying to @Martin_Anward
   should probably call it Omelas Stability then
   
2. 
   Martin Anward‏ @Martin_Anward 6h6 hours ago
   Sounds like a thing we should really walk away from tbh

Wiz deserves serious props for getting this reference

link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas

 

[The Founder]

I thought most of those Stasi agents were spies, not beat cops. Pretty much every civilian in East Germany was a mole for the Stasi, but they weren't in uniform. Though, in that case, that would mean non-enforcer pops can contribute to crime suppression.

They still needed a "Handler" to gather, collate and evaluate the information. Those were the enforcers.

I am wondering if crime and pirate risk affect each other. Eg if you have high crime on a planet it is more likely to spawn a pirate base near it and if there is a pirate base close to a planet it increases its crime.

I asume it works that way.

 

[Turnil]

It seems a little strange that one of the effects of unhappiness is going to be more unhappiness.

Looking forward to seeing the big picture on Thursday.

stability will not increase happiness and crime will also not affect happiness.
Happiness affects both crime and stability but not the other way around.

 

[The_Meme_Man]

I KINDA hope some crime cannot be solved with happiness, that way you have to have enforcers, albeit a much smaller force of enforcers on stable planets. Even the most developed and high-living-standard places on Earth still suffer from crime, and happiness even sometimes encourages more crime since people are cheeky buggers. A happy and stable planet shouldn't look like District 9, but you should still have light constabulary.

 

[Ex Mudder]

This strikes me as odd. Living standards are a major factor is the happiness of the lower strata, so I can't see a situation where lower strata pops both matter and are unhappy. Perhaps this should be tied to authority, so that democracies have to pay more attention to the general populace.

I think this is to balance relative numbers. If 10% of the Pops are ruler class, then they may need a heavier weighting to become relevant compared to the other 90%.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I am betting on extra "free" police jobs that do not requires a building, rather than having more effective policemen. This way, you can have a massive police force right out of the bat, even on underdeveloped colonies. "Quantity over quality" policemen seems like a properly dystopian police state to me.

The way I'd do it is to have a policy be unlocked for police mobilization. That way you can start with a small amount of police and add on more later as your planets fill out. You almost certainly wouldn't want to have double/triple police job slots on your planets at all times.

 

[DominusNovus]

Oh that is super easy to explain.

If I am playing a machine empire or hive mind (gestalt conscience) whose population has no happiness then how is stability treated? Always at 100% stability?

Well, Wiz already answered the main reason, but my question didn’t presuppose that happiness was the only contributing factor to stability.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

Oh that is super easy to explain.

If I am playing a machine empire or hive mind (gestalt conscience) whose population has no happiness then how is stability treated? Always at 100% stability?

We'll see in a week and a half

 

[Avian Overlord]

I think this is to balance relative numbers. If 10% of the Pops are ruler class, then they may need a heavier weighting to become relevant compared to the other 90%.

I'm saying I think the ratio should be decided by something other than living standard.

 

[Belhedler]

So I guess the reason to make factions happy will be less for better production output and more for stability? Or maybe factions won't have much impact on both at all. In which case, what is left of the factions role then?