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It really isn't. The argument has nothing to do with wanting the old FTL back, so stop strawmanning. It's a complete misrepresentation of the argument to say that wanting FTL inhibitors to work differently is equivalent to wanting multiple types of FTL back.

It has to do with it in that case :

Outright removing planetary FTL inhibitors would make sniping shipyards possible again, with nearly as much efficiency as if you had warp.

Regarding the proposal to make the inhibition a FTL debuff instead of the obligation of landing armies, it is trading a timer for another so I would ask why even bother?

And yes, planetary FTL inhibitors are blockers - they block all hyperlanes from being used except the one used to enter the system.

Only if you refuse to land those damn armies. An enemy fleet will be as much a blocker if you don't send yours.

I don't think you understand that having to follow the hyperlane network means that the defender can set-up effective chokepoints. That's the whole point of the reason hyperlane network was chosen to be the default FTL.

Getting a fortress at mid-way between a foe and a target on a n hyperlanes path is as effective as getting the same fortress at the target location against a foe with warp. Or less if the target has defensive abilities.

I don't appreciate the imagery in that message - why are you talking about choking someone, and me in particular? That really has no bearing on our discussion about a game?

Could be anyone's throat really, including mine. I found the image amusing since speaking about a game's chokepoints, the example demonstrate how a chokepoint can be used to inhibit 100% of something, which you seem to still not be willing to allow. But I guess this is too serious a topic. :eek:

By the way, nozzles actually increase flow rate of the flowing fluid.

Nozzles increase velocity, not flow rate of a fluid. You're creating energy out of thin air and I should "brush up on my basic physics"? :rolleyes: By the way the fluid is said to be "choked" in the "noozzle's throat". See the link? :D

Further, with regard to semantics, the word we are talking about is inhibit, not chokepoint, or had you forgotten that?

Yes, but in the overall context of chokepoints. How would it bear on our discussion about a game otherwise? I was not playing grammar nazi you know? But you seem to have difficulties to grasp that a chokepoint can and must be used by the defender to try and apply any kind of inhibition at disposal, ideally up to 100% to prevent, slow down at worse, the enemy from further advancing.

I don't think you know what a strawman is.

Telling me spartans at Thermopylae could not do anything about the battle at Salamis because they are foot soldiers, not naval ships, to prove me wrong, conveniently disregarding that only tech level and equipment prevented them to do such a thing, is clearly not a strawman.
 
Yay! Dev Diary is finally here!
…Aaannnddddd it of course it barely had any information about the actual gameplay in it, and we will have to wait another week for actually start learning about the new systems in detail.
Uhhggg.
 
Yay! Dev Diary is finally here!
…Aaannnddddd it of course it barely had any information about the actual gameplay in it, and we will have to wait another week for actually start learning about the new systems in detail.
Uhhggg.

It does though offer a tantalising view of what's possible with the new system. At the very least it shows that 'minerals or GTFO' will no longer be as valid as it is now.
 
At the very least it shows that 'minerals or GTFO' will no longer be as valid as it is now.

Well... Probably it will be replaced by "With Species/Trait/Civic <x> it is Resource <y> or GTFO", which is more like many other games try to do it as well.

Which won't make playing an empire particularly better in the beginning than it is now (except if they model an entirely different gameplay around each of those changes which I doubt will happen in the early days of the new economic model or only for maybe a very few cherry-picked distinctive styles)... but it might become interesting rather later when most of the galaxy is taken and expanding means having to integrate and adapt the infrastructure of a different empire which had to focus on a different resource(s)... which is then like "omg I have to replace almost everything on that planet"
 
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Agreed. Mostly what I complain about is the hassle it is to replace platforms. With a fleet it's nice to have their added firepower, but since they cost minerals as well, are near useless alone and are replaced manually I keep reinforcing moar ships instead of replacing platforms, and I end up not using them. Costs a bit more but I fund my laziness happily. With a template system I would certainly use them though. The other end of the narrow margin.
I like that they only cost Energy to Maintain, not minerals. That alone is a huge boon, as investing into Platforms will not prevent you from investing more into fleet later.

…Aaannnddddd it of course it barely had any information about the actual gameplay in it, and we will have to wait another week for actually start learning about the new systems in detail.
Uhhggg.
It tought us that we can expand our expectations. Just adding the ability for non-Robot Pops to consume Energy instead of Food? That originally took several versions.
With the new Economic System, it can be modded in.

It is not only a tool for modder, but also one for the developers.
 
I like that they only cost Energy to Maintain, not minerals. That alone is a huge boon, as investing into Platforms will not prevent you from investing more into fleet later.

You're right, I didn't think of it that way. Thank you, you have now triggered my OCD, I will now have to take on the burden of building them. Or to mod in a manager.

@Wiz Pretty please, since you're lurking in there, could you or someone of your team add a starbase template manager for easy defensive platforms replacing or reconfiguring, when you have some time? That would be so much cuter than space unicorns. :p
 
It has to do with it in that case :
It really doesn't.

Regarding the proposal to make the inhibition a FTL debuff instead of the obligation of landing armies, it is trading a timer for another so I would ask why even bother?
One timer is not intuitive or obvious to new players and it restricts gameplay options arbitrarily. The other timer doesn't have those disadvantages.

Only if you refuse to land those damn armies. An enemy fleet will be as much a blocker if you don't send yours.

So what, maneuver warfare applies selectively, when you want it to, but otherwise is a bad game mechanic?

Could be anyone's throat really, including mine. I found the image amusing since speaking about a game's chokepoints, the example demonstrate how a chokepoint can be used to inhibit 100% of something, which you seem to still not be willing to allow. But I guess this is too serious a topic. :eek:
We're talking about the word inhibition, the word inhibit means to slow down. And if you constrict the area through which a fluid flows, it doesn't necessarily slow down.

It's not too serious a topic - it appears to be a thinly veiled use of threatening language which adds nothing to discussion.

Nozzles increase velocity, not flow rate of a fluid. You're creating energy out of thin air and I should "brush up on my basic physics"? :rolleyes: By the way the fluid is said to be "choked" in the "noozzle's throat". See the link? :D
Strange. You picked up on that discrepancy in terminology. Now you acknowledge that nozzles increase velocity, and just before you were saying that nozzles decrease velocity? Which is it?

Yes, but in the overall context of chokepoints. How would it bear on our discussion about a game otherwise? I was not playing grammar nazi you know? But you seem to have difficulties to grasp that a chokepoint can and must be used by the defender to try and apply any kind of inhibition at disposal, ideally up to 100% to prevent, slow down at worse, the enemy from further advancing.
It was actually in the overall context of FTL inhibition, and you do seem to be a semantics soldier.

How have I demonstrated a difficulty in understanding that?

Telling me spartans at Thermopylae could not do anything about the battle at Salamis because they are foot soldiers, not naval ships, to prove me wrong, conveniently disregarding that only tech level and equipment prevented them to do such a thing, is clearly not a strawman.
Yes, it is not a strawman. I'm glad you agree with me. It's not a misrepresentation of the argument you're making.
 
It's not too serious a topic - it appears to be a thinly veiled use of threatening language which adds nothing to discussion.

It adds as much as if I had used a finger and a pipe imagery. I find you easily triggered if you take it as threatening, but will use pipe and finger from now on.

How have I demonstrated a difficulty in understanding that?

Anything used defensively in a chokepoint will ideally be used as a blocker, fleets as well. You complain about something used as a blocker in a chokepoint. You seem to not like the idea of an inhibitor being able to block. You seem to not consider the fact you can use armies as not being blocked more than when facing a fleet and having to defeat it. You have a weapon and a counter (FTL inhib/armies) as anything else in the game. You're in favor a solution (FTL debuff) which would be equivalent to faster invasions and would lead to the same problems.

I admit I have no clue what you demonstrated but you did. If you want quicker warfare and don't see the relation to the 3 FTL methods, even after answering your question about it, you seem to fail to gauge the effect of the time factor on the ability of the defender to deliver more than one significant battle and secure an area. Otherwise, all I can see is laziness to manage armies.

Strange. You picked up on that discrepancy in terminology. Now you acknowledge that nozzles increase velocity, and just before you were saying that nozzles decrease velocity? Which is it?

True there was a language abuse in my throat analogy, I should have said "breathing the same volume at the same speed requires more lung pressure if choked enough because there is a tightening point at which we close the materials breaking point enough that it translates in strain to the muscles pulling the lungs".

For a semantics soldier I'm supposed to be, you seem one hard to debunk from that inhibit definition.

We're talking about the word inhibition, the word inhibit means to slow down. And if you constrict the area through which a fluid flows, it doesn't necessarily slow down.

You are talking about the word inhibition. From the beginning I talk about how a chokepoint can be used to inhibit enemies from advancing, up to blocking them. I droped my first line on it, yes, but there was text under it, that was the important part.

Ships, troops, and space warfare tech can hardly be represented by simple fluids and noozzles. The noozzle has no troops in it so that's moot? Still velocity != flow rate.
If obstructing half a pipe exit with a finger, velocity increases, flow rate stays the same. If obstructing completely the pipe with a finger both fall to 0. The increase in velocity just maintains an equal flow rate for a narrower exit given the same pressure. So it's either blocking or not blocking, but actually never slowing down, as quantity/second remains the same. Except the thin limit where the choke is too tight, the pipe strong enough, and the pump or whatever not strong enough. You'll have a slow down there and a backflow.

Your noozzle has no "finger", so the analogy with a troop guarded chokepoint is irrelevant.

To come back to the game, what is slowing down is the obstruction you can set up at a chokepoint and what it takes to remove it, not the chokepoint itself. If there is only one ship it's still 100% blocking until it's destroyed. You want to remove the ground troop part of that, the game is balanced around that, and yes it would be fine to replace it with a FTL debuff.

But either make it as long as it would take to take a planet + an extra to represent invading forces being late, caught, whatever, which is less precise, as much fun, and less strategic because no need to reinforce troops, no possibility to catch them guerilla style, and no differenciation between invasion time and bombing time. Or make ship prod speed match the increased speed at which the enemy can enter in a territory. The first solution changes *nothing* except microing armies being gone, the second needs a rebalance of ship prod time and (cost or mineral income), which is a problem nest and a bulldozer to smash a fly. Otherwise this is a drift towards the case we had with warp/wormhole, hence the comparison in the first place.

Comparison which is as much a strawman as was your argument on Salamis, and while both are not strawmans and it's easy to yell "Strawman!" when disagreeing, you're wrong in both cases. 3 if we take the noozzle.
 
I always knew that PDX fanbase is a little weird with all that xenocide, torture, slavery and inbreeding. But unicorn portraits? That's crossing the line.
Scrolling through this thread, the post above yours literally ends in salami, strawmen and nozzles. I know it's 2018 and we shouldn't kink shame, but some posters make it very difficult.
 
Scrolling through this thread, the post above yours literally ends in salami, strawmen and nozzles. I know it's 2018 and we shouldn't kink shame, but some posters make it very difficult.
Salamis, not salami. :p Where Ancient Greece fits in I do not know though. :p
 
Inb4 space unicorns are an event-only, unplayable portrait
As long as they are not a DLC portrait too, there should be nothing agaisnt modding them into the area of playable portraits.

You're right, I didn't think of it that way. Thank you, you have now triggered my OCD, I will now have to take on the burden of building them. Or to mod in a manager.
Wow, stop the sarcasm.

I honestly do not see any need for a Starbase Maanger. You need stations at 3 Border stations. Maybe at 6, during a active warfare. All I really need is soem easy way to find Border Posts with Defense Platforms (both active and being build), as those are the ones I tend to forget to scrap after they served their purpose.

I always knew that PDX fanbase is a little weird with all that xenocide, torture, slavery and inbreeding. But unicorn portraits? That's crossing the line.
Deadpool and Captain Boomeraing wish that you do not judge him!