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Imperator Dev Diary, 2/24/2020

Welcome back for this week’s Imperator dev diary.


Today, I’m going to be talking a little bit about the three mysterious boxes that a few of you picked up on when we took a look at the new Religion View wireframe the other week.

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Linked strongly to Holy Sites, the Sacred Treasures system will be included as part of the Archimedes update. We will be including a set of general treasures for all owners of I:R, and a set of treasures as part of the Content Pack, with a Greek theme, as per the rest of the pack.

Sacred treasures will appear in holy sites around the world, and are intended to represent famous or important artefacts that were known or presumed to have been revered in the ancient world.

It’s important to note here, I think, what treasures are not. Just as with the deities and omens, we’re keen to stress the importance of belief and ritual in antiquity, rather than treating these items as ‘magical’ in nature. The vast quantity of carved/written requests for blessings or even curses that are still found by archaeologists at temples and holy places dating to antiquity, shows that religion was a hugely relevant, almost transactional, part of life.


How will they work?

Every holy site will have a number of slots for sacred treasures, represented as above in the religion view. This corresponds to the ‘level’ of the holy site, which in turn corresponds to the city status of the territory in question. A settlement will be able to sport one artefact, two in a city, and up to three in a metropolis.

I’m keen that treasures are considered unique. Treasures will be created at the beginning of the game, and there will be a finite number. Where the Pythia in Delphi might begin with a brazier of Oleander, you will not find 45 Braziers of Oleander doing the rounds 100 years into the game.

Treasures themselves will exert a provincial effect, applying a modifier to all territories within the province in which they reside. This makes it very relevant where your holy sites are located, and which city status they possess.

Naturally, putting all your eggs in one basket can have a down side. Treasures are fair game for looting, and the desecration of a holy site by a unit will pass all contained treasures to the looting nation.

Treasures can only be actively placed in holy sites which represent gods currently worshiped in your pantheon, and treasures present in holy sites of other deities will have no effect. To add a level of commitment to your choices, you will be unable to remove a treasure unless the holy site is desecrated (possible through the Religion View screen).


Can’t we just stack these to crazy levels?

To an extent. We’re addressing this in a couple of ways. Firstly, the various pop output bonuses for Capital, Capital Province and Capital Region are being cut down significantly. Secondly, by tying treasure slots to city status, you would need to have 4 metropolises in one province in order to stack the maximum number of treasure slots. This makes it theoretically possible, but a significant logistical challenge to feed and supply a fully decked out province.


Can we mod these?

You most certainly can. Time allowing, I will also be looking into allowing characters to benefit from possessing treasures, replete with character effects. Nota bene: I have no current plans to enable the character aspect of the sacred treasures system in the base game.

Next week, we’ll be showing off some more missions that will be coming as part of the Magna Graecia content pack, as well as an interaction with the deity mechanics that I hinted at a few diaries ago.


/Arheo
 
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Why should you be able to get them back? How often was not religious artefacts simply destroyed or hidden away and lost.

Otherwise likely on annexation or as a Peace option.

Another thing could be to have a new plot for the ruler to "find" a new religious artefact.
Because without the abiliity to capture unplaced treasure and them being unique it means that over the course of the game the number of treasure would drop rather fast as temples will get plundered, but most of the time the captured treasure will not all be placed in holy sites again, efffectively removing them from the game.

Also its no fun to have your temples looted and not be able to reconquer them just because the enemy does not place them in a temple of his own.
 
A big thing in antiquity was nations giving gifts to oracles or renovating foreign temples as a sign of piety (think Croesus giving massively to the oracle at Delphi as a reward for its "accuracy," or the dedication of the Serpent Column by the various Greek states after Plataea), and pretty much any Greek city worth mentioning had its own elaborate treasury building in Delphi to hold its own offerings. Will there be any option for nations that don't control a sacred site to give dedicatory gifts, maybe for temporary bonuses?

Also, while they are supposed to be unique, will any be generated during gameplay by unique events/decisions? E.g. a particularly famous (and historical) artist shows up to offer to create a historically famous work and tours the various relevant holy sites offering to create it until someone pays him to do so? Maybe famous statues like the Venus de Milo? Or other examples of major donations: for instance, the Aetolians (intentionally echoing the Serpent Column and assorted gifts) dedicated the arms of the Gallic Army that they defeated outside Delphi in 279.

And, in an unrelated question: do the Ethiopians start with the Ark of the Covenant?
 
This sounds interesting. When is the patch going to be released though?

Weren't there going to be "shorter, more frequent patches"?
 
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Linked strongly to Holy Sites, the Sacred Treasures system will be included as part of the Archimedes update. We will be including a set of general treasures for all owners of I:R, and a set of treasures as part of the Content Pack, with a Greek theme, as per the rest of the pack.
So, no menorah or Ark of the Covenant for Judaism? (I'm willing to bet those will be in a later patch, if not this one.)
 
  1. Could sacred relics be demanded in peace deals without being desecrated? Would be silly for a Greek country to desecrate another Greek country just to grab a Relic.
  2. Would totally defeating a country (giving the dialogue of how to treat their elites) give you all the unplaced relics?
  3. Are Metropoleis being unlocked of the limit of having one per provinciam? (Because you said something about having 4)
  4. So now it seems probable to host foreign gods in a country. But how will it interact with Religious Unity?
  5. And if I am not going to host foreign gods because I want total conversions (may take time). Would it be possible to just diplomatically gift someone a Relic in exchange for some stuff?
  6. Will there be fictional or mysterious items like Poseidon's Trident, or Feather of Minerva's Owl?
  7. Are we going to get Olive Laurel after winning the Olympics?
  8. What about the Heraeia games (women's Olympics)?
 
Since the content of patch 1.4 began showing, I have been thinking about new casus bellis that could be implemented realistically. So far I did not know how to do it, with this developer diary I can finally contribute my suggestions:

Desecrate temple (Only available to civilized governments, in case of being a republic you need 75% of the Senate's support)

A casus belli that allows desecrating a sacred place (conquest is not possible)

Effects: our religion expands more quickly through the affected area, we get a lot of gold
Our governor gets a unique feature
-200 opinion of all countries of the desecrated religion

Requirements: We must have -200 of opinion with a country that has a sacred place.

Great plunder (only available for tribes)

It is the same as desecrating temples but with the difference that an event is triggered by declaring war that allows us to win temporary allies for the great plunder.

Revenge

A unique casus belli for countries that have been desecrated. It allows us to conquer the whole country that attacked us (no matter how many territories it has) in exchange for 40 fixed aggressive expansion (this will always be this amount, no matter what territories we conquered).
By declaring war, an event that shows our revenge will be activated.

Effects: We can conquer 100% of the enemy territory in exchange for 40 aggressive expansion or dissolve the enemy country in many small kingdoms.
If the enemy country is a main power (+ of 99 territories) or a great power (+499 territories) our ruler will get the last name "the great one" and will get a blood line.

Requirements: Have a sacred place desecrated by another country different from our religion.

Recover Alexander's body (only available for diadochy)

A casus belli that allows us to face another successor state for the control of Alexander's body.

Effects: Alexander's body allows us to obtain a decision to declare ourselves heirs
+0.25 monthly popularity for our ruler
-0.25 monthly popularity for the rest of diadochy rulers.

Unique decisions:

If we declare alexander's heirs we will get a casus belli called restoring empire that allows us to conquer another diadochy completely in exchange for 40 fixed aggressive expansion (no matter what territories our enemy has).

Create own kingdom: A decision that any diadochy can make at any time (except if it has Alexander's body.
Basically we lose all the unique casus belli of the diadochy and we become our own kingdom. Nor do we have penalties for not having the body.
If all diadochy make this decision, whoever has Alexander's body will automatically become an heir with the benefits mentioned.

If someone who is not a diadochy or has made the decision to create kingdom gets alexander's body, he will only get +0.25 monthly popularity.

The ideas of these casus belli is to have a risk / reward of fighting for a treasure.

Something like this is designed for players who like to conquer and who have to think about whether or not to make these casus belli worthwhile.

It would also add more flavor to diadochy.

I write this here because there is talk of treasures, if it is not the right place I will write it elsewhere.
 
  1. Could sacred relics be demanded in peace deals without being desecrated? Would be silly for a Greek country to desecrate another Greek country just to grab a Relic.
  2. Would totally defeating a country (giving the dialogue of how to treat their elites) give you all the unplaced relics?
  3. Are Metropoleis being unlocked of the limit of having one per provinciam? (Because you said something about having 4)
  4. So now it seems probable to host foreign gods in a country. But how will it interact with Religious Unity?
  5. And if I am not going to host foreign gods because I want total conversions (may take time). Would it be possible to just diplomatically gift someone a Relic in exchange for some stuff?
  6. Will there be fictional or mysterious items like Poseidon's Trident, or Feather of Minerva's Owl?
  7. Are we going to get Olive Laurel after winning the Olympics?
  8. What about the Heraeia games (women's Olympics)?

1. The intended way to acquire these is either by desecrating the temple, or annexing the temple for yourself.
2. At least some of them. Others may be 'lost' - ie; distributed amongst nearby countries.
3. Some sneaky people have found ways to acquire more ;)
4. Religious unity remains unaffected by the deity system.
5. Not at this time.
6. No.
7. Cool idea, maybe. I'm reluctant to use the treasures in a way that might result in multiples, though.
8. I was not aware of these; would be cool to add something for this in future.
 
3. Some sneaky people have found ways to acquire more ;)
So will you remove the requirement or simply add it into the political Power cost so it cost 125 political influence to found a metropolis in a no capital city?

The same can be said about debt events, currently you can store the Money, so maybe you should add a button that fire a debt event or rework the system so you can't use it to make Money.

Alliance is also very wired since you know if an ally will break if you declare war so you can use this to your advantage to avoid getting a truce with your ally by asking them to join a war they wont join, probably the Alliance system should be reworked, I like the EUIV one better since it actually encourage more cooperation and other stuff while the Imperator Rome system is simply about throwing them away.

I don't think it is a good idea to have all these hidden stuff, either make them official or rework them.

There is also all other kind of strange stuff like migratory tribes is super good at research because the research mechanic don't take account for migrants which mean you can get 0 invention cost and high research ratio.
 
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That is just ridiculous amount of negative opinion.

The idea of my casus belli is to find a balance between risk and reward. To desecrate a sacred place should give great benefits but to anger the people of that religion, this can create an interesting revenge.

As historical example we have the burning of Athens by Xerxes. The conflicts between Greeks and Persians lasted many centuries and were compelling reasons for the Greeks to accompany Alexander in his campaigns against Persia.

I don't think any religious group would have liked to have their sacred temple burned. This would be a reason for revenge at any time in history.