Imperator Dev Diary, 2/24/2020

Welcome back for this week’s Imperator dev diary.


Today, I’m going to be talking a little bit about the three mysterious boxes that a few of you picked up on when we took a look at the new Religion View wireframe the other week.

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Linked strongly to Holy Sites, the Sacred Treasures system will be included as part of the Archimedes update. We will be including a set of general treasures for all owners of I:R, and a set of treasures as part of the Content Pack, with a Greek theme, as per the rest of the pack.

Sacred treasures will appear in holy sites around the world, and are intended to represent famous or important artefacts that were known or presumed to have been revered in the ancient world.

It’s important to note here, I think, what treasures are not. Just as with the deities and omens, we’re keen to stress the importance of belief and ritual in antiquity, rather than treating these items as ‘magical’ in nature. The vast quantity of carved/written requests for blessings or even curses that are still found by archaeologists at temples and holy places dating to antiquity, shows that religion was a hugely relevant, almost transactional, part of life.


How will they work?

Every holy site will have a number of slots for sacred treasures, represented as above in the religion view. This corresponds to the ‘level’ of the holy site, which in turn corresponds to the city status of the territory in question. A settlement will be able to sport one artefact, two in a city, and up to three in a metropolis.

I’m keen that treasures are considered unique. Treasures will be created at the beginning of the game, and there will be a finite number. Where the Pythia in Delphi might begin with a brazier of Oleander, you will not find 45 Braziers of Oleander doing the rounds 100 years into the game.

Treasures themselves will exert a provincial effect, applying a modifier to all territories within the province in which they reside. This makes it very relevant where your holy sites are located, and which city status they possess.

Naturally, putting all your eggs in one basket can have a down side. Treasures are fair game for looting, and the desecration of a holy site by a unit will pass all contained treasures to the looting nation.

Treasures can only be actively placed in holy sites which represent gods currently worshiped in your pantheon, and treasures present in holy sites of other deities will have no effect. To add a level of commitment to your choices, you will be unable to remove a treasure unless the holy site is desecrated (possible through the Religion View screen).


Can’t we just stack these to crazy levels?

To an extent. We’re addressing this in a couple of ways. Firstly, the various pop output bonuses for Capital, Capital Province and Capital Region are being cut down significantly. Secondly, by tying treasure slots to city status, you would need to have 4 metropolises in one province in order to stack the maximum number of treasure slots. This makes it theoretically possible, but a significant logistical challenge to feed and supply a fully decked out province.


Can we mod these?

You most certainly can. Time allowing, I will also be looking into allowing characters to benefit from possessing treasures, replete with character effects. Nota bene: I have no current plans to enable the character aspect of the sacred treasures system in the base game.

Next week, we’ll be showing off some more missions that will be coming as part of the Magna Graecia content pack, as well as an interaction with the deity mechanics that I hinted at a few diaries ago.


/Arheo
 

Wagonlitz

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I’m keen that treasures are considered unique. Treasures will be created at the beginning of the game, and there will be a finite number. Where the Pythia in Delphi might begin with a brazier of Oleander, you will not find 45 Braziers of Oleander doing the rounds 100 years into the game.
Given treasuries are unique and can't be generated later, can you then destroy them to permanently annoy a religion, or are they impossible to destroy and will just give you a buff for having somebody elses treassury?
 

Denkt

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Can’t we just stack these to crazy levels?

To an extent. We’re addressing this in a couple of ways. Firstly, the various pop output bonuses for Capital, Capital Province and Capital Region are being cut down significantly. Secondly, by tying treasure slots to city status, you would need to have 4 metropolises in one province in order to stack the maximum number of treasure slots. This makes it theoretically possible, but a significant logistical challenge to feed and supply a fully decked out province.
Have you consider how this affect research since having good research ratio require doing some pretty crazy stuff to maximize the bonuses from the capital but with the change how will research now be. On other hand certain religious stuff may boost it but on the other hand that require maybe even more crazy stuff than is seen right now.

I could maybe see Citizens research production be boosted a bit, seeing the diadochi and other large empires with absolute pathetic technology levels don't make all too much sense.
 

Razmorg

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Will you be able to see where these are in the world clearly when it's not owned by you? Just curious if it's meant to be something you stumble upon and then adapt as it fits your sites or if it's more something that might influence who you want to go to war with.
 

nikkythegreat

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the various pop output bonuses for Capital, Capital Province and Capital Region are being cut down significantly.


/Arheo


Wouldn't this be an indirect nerf to playing small countries. The game already lacks a good system to prevent large countries from being too strong. If Capital, Capital Province and Capital Region bonuses would be cut down the game needs its very own anti snow ball mechanism. So that a country of 5,000 pops will not be 50 times stronger than a country of 100 pops.
 

Todie

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This is pretty amazing. Relics and holysites and the rebalancing of capital modifiers all serve the purpose of making different provinces and cities matter, other than your capital.


this is the highest quality meming i’ve seen this decade. Hands firmly down.
 
Last edited:

Ixalmaris

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How can you capture treasue from someone who has not placed them in a holy site, for example because he looted them (from you) but does not posses a holy site himself or because he doesn't add them as they do not fit his pantheon? How do you get them back?
 

Denkt

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How can you capture treasue from someone who has not placed them in a holy site, for example because he looted them (from you) but does not posses a holy site himself or because he doesn't add them as they do not fit his pantheon? How do you get them back?
Why should you be able to get them back? How often was not religious artefacts simply destroyed or hidden away and lost.

Otherwise likely on annexation or as a Peace option.

Another thing could be to have a new plot for the ruler to "find" a new religious artefact.
 

halbort

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I am curious about about how these religion mechanics will apply to India. Although it is true Hinduism has a bunch of gods, the Hindu gods worshipped in this period were predominately Vedic different from the gods worshiped today.

Moreover, this time period has a lot of religious debate within India. In addition to Hinduism, there are the competing sramana movements of Buddhism, Jainism and Ajivika. These competing doctrines were pretty much nontheistic and did not emphasize the concept of god. How would you model this in the pantheon system?

In fact, Hinduism as we know it today is really a fusion of Vedic Hinduism, Sramana and the later Puranas.
 

Taniwha

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Will it be possible to go to war to retrieve looted artifacts? I'm thinking of the lengths the Romans went to to get back eagles from Parthia and Germany, or the rhetoric you got from Greeks about avenging the Persian sacking of Greek temples.

Also, off topic- you've apparently done a lot of work to rebuild and expand the game since release. Has there been any adjustment to the problem of offices being sought by people who aren't eligible or are vastly over qualified? I know it's a minor point, but for some reason it's the hill my brain has chosen to die on. I re installed last month for the first time since the game was released, and uninstalled the moment I saw that sixteen year olds were still trying to become censors and seventy year olds wanted to be tribunes of the plebs. Apparently that's my yardstick for immersion, for reasons I can't really explain....