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Absolutely. I miss him too. He was one of the best.
Was there any reason he stopped playing altogether? I seem to remember him saying he didn't have time for it, but you see him on the OT every now and again.
 
WW is a game of diplomacy, a game of influence. If you want to have someone lynched, you vote that person. But one vote does not lead to the noose. You need others to follow you. You need to persuade others why your lynching candidate is a good one. That is an important part of the game. AOK and EURO are actually quite good at that, and have lead the village to victory often (mostly AOK). So following them makes sense. But the key is that villagers also need to be aware when it is wise not to follow someone. Are their arguments making sense? Do you think the lynch instigator might be a wolf leading the village on the wrong path? People need to use their own brains, their own analysing and reasoning to decide when not to follow someone. Arguments are the key in there. AOK has such credibility that he can lead the lynch without arguments, that is dangerous, and some players might try in-game to counter that.

What I am saying is that sheeps are, in a way, necessary, but they must never be mindless sheep. They must be sheeps of arguments.

Also, I don't have a gift in rhetoric. I am in fact quite the terrible orator.

Me too.

I try and give as much analyzing stuff as I can to the thread later in the game. I usually hope that whatever JL there is can make use of it, plug it into what they already know, and come up with baddies.

It worked fairly well with Kriszo's game.
 
Was there any reason he stopped playing altogether? I seem to remember him saying he didn't have time for it, but you see him on the OT every now and again.
He was one of those guys who invested a lot of time into the game -- each day he would put up a dozen or so posts of useful insights and analysis. I suppose if he didn't have time for that, he wasn't going to lower himself to the level of one-post-per-day activity. Sort of like Flowers for Algernon, ya know?

Also, when I last saw him around here he lived in Shanghai. Due to the time zone difference, it was nearly impossible for him to participate in vote-snipes. Since nowadays nearly every day ends with some vote-sniping, that made him almost irrelevant as a villager.
 
He was one of those guys who invested a lot of time into the game -- each day he would put up a dozen or so posts of useful insights and analysis. I suppose if he didn't have time for that, he wasn't going to lower himself to the level of one-post-per-day activity. Sort of like Flowers for Algernon, ya know?

Also, when I last saw him around here he lived in Shanghai. Due to the time zone difference, it was nearly impossible for him to participate in vote-snipes. Since nowadays nearly every day ends with some vote-sniping, that made him almost irrelevant as a villager.

I am usually at work at deadline, so I can't do it either. I am most active late night here when I do most of my posting.
 
...so are we not allowed to advertise in the OT thread then? do people in the OT not take to kindly to our folk around there?

I for one only found this thread through luck and boredom and then all i did was keep watch over the Battlestar Galactica Season 3 game as i found that game interesting. Im pretty sure there are alot of new people that come to the thread to spectate but never get the balls to jump into it. To be fair though theres nothing else people can do to help people get into WW, everybody was nice when i joined and the game seemed fun and from there my unhealthy addiction with refreshing the forum began.
 
...so are we not allowed to advertise in the OT thread then? do people in the OT not take to kindly to our folk around there?

I for one only found this thread through luck and boredom and then all i did was keep watch over the Battlestar Galactica Season 3 game as i found that game interesting. Im pretty sure there are alot of new people that come to the thread to spectate but never get the balls to jump into it. To be fair though theres nothing else people can do to help people get into WW, everybody was nice when i joined and the game seemed fun and from there my unhealthy addiction with refreshing the forum began.

Who seemed the nicest?
 
...so are we not allowed to advertise in the OT thread then? do people in the OT not take to kindly to our folk around there?
Incorrect. We are allowed one post, which we are supposed to use to advertise new games and thus gin up some new players. A quick look over that thread reveals that we are failing pretty miserably at that -- not that we aren't posting somewhat regularly in that thread (present game excepted) but there is nothing in there to serve as a 'hook' and draw in new players. It's just a picture and summary of the theme -- nothing grabs your attention or curiosity.
 
Incorrect. We are allowed one post, which we are supposed to use to advertise new games and thus gin up some new players. A quick look over that thread reveals that we are failing pretty miserably at that -- not that we aren't posting somewhat regularly in that thread (present game excepted) but there is nothing in there to serve as a 'hook' and draw in new players. It's just a picture and summary of the theme -- nothing grabs your attention or curiosity.

You should fix it.
 
Who seemed the nicest?

EURO of course!! ;)

but prob randy for getting me to play and kaetje for not being mean to me with my retarded protect orders as i was the doctor and did not have a clue what i was doing.
 
EURO of course!! ;)

but prob randy for getting me to play and kaetje for not being mean to me with my retarded protect orders as i was the doctor and did not have a clue what i was doing.

When did you start playing?

It seems you joined long ago, but from what you're saying it was fairly recent?
 
Incorrect. We are allowed one post, which we are supposed to use to advertise new games and thus gin up some new players. A quick look over that thread reveals that we are failing pretty miserably at that -- not that we aren't posting somewhat regularly in that thread (present game excepted) but there is nothing in there to serve as a 'hook' and draw in new players. It's just a picture and summary of the theme -- nothing grabs your attention or curiosity.
And the name of the thread isn't really helping either.
 
No, it does not. Sheepish behavior, or the pretense of it, is never good for the village. If the first, the villagers are working to the desires of the baddies. If the second, the baddies are hiding amongst the flock. In both cases, the lynch is the obvious answer.

There is this law in statistics that speaks of "independent events". It goes along the lines of : "Just because the last 932578347578347 times the independent event A, with equally possible outcomes A and B, happened with outcome B, it does not mean that the next event A will have a greater chance to happen with outcome A than with B, because they are separate events.

Euh... I think you have misread me. AOK lynching wolves is not a statistical chance. It is his quality of finding wolves. And as a villager, it makes sense to initially follow AOK if he leads the village, because he has shown in past games, that he can find wolves. So if you are a villager, intend on lynching wolves, and you have no idea who are wolves, and you have not so far reason to mistrust AOK, following him gives the greatest possibility of finding wolves. But one must always remain critical, and be aware of the fact that AOK himself can be a wolf, and lead the village on a wild goose chase.

The issue here, as Ironhead said, is that there are no arguments. It would be alright if there actually were some arguments supporting it. So, yes, as you say it, being a swayed sheep (or pretending to) because someone has an unnatural gift in rhethorics is good for the game. And the best thing about arguments is that they can be fought with counter-arguments, and that they are somewhat impersonal, so everyone can play that game.

Thank you for making my point. If there are no arguments, they certainly make no sense. So the absence of arguments is easily counter-argumented. AOK's arguments are however implicit, namely in the fact that he has shown to be a good wolf-detector. It's hard to provide counter-arguments to that.

The new game thread in the OT is no longer stickied. I don't know how long ago that happened but I think it is good news.
It was done to put more attention to it. This group requested Blade! to do so some time ago.
EURO of course!! ;)

but prob randy for getting me to play and kaetje for not being mean to me with my retarded protect orders as i was the doctor and did not have a clue what i was doing.

And which family member are you? ;)


----------

Regarding the 2 questions at hand:
1) our style of play. Yes, I agree with Ironhead that our current style of play leaves much to be improved. For a part that is indeed caused by the role that AOK takes. I cannot blame AOK for having his quality, and I cannot blame villagers for following him (see above). Yet what is the solution to this problem? AOK is who he is, we can't (and shouldn't) change that. Perhaps we can find a way to change the game mechanics a bit to negate the effects? (I know that AOK will probably think "LEAVE WW ALONE!", but I am also thinking that his stance on this is also because he could be afraid to loose his strength of play that way. But maybe that should be part of the plan to improve the game? And AOK could see it as a challenge to improve himself?) Would a change in voting make a difference? Limit of number of vote changes per player? A "sudden" deadline? Any ideas?

2) The players pool. Despite the luxury of our own forum, we do lack a sufficient influx of new players. It has always been the case that new players come and most go again, and some stay. (some return after some time, welcome back Velasco). However, if the influx is not big enough, that will result in a net loss of players (while with a big enough influx, the amount of players is stable of perhaps even increasing). Our "new game"-thread in the OT is not hook enough to draw in new players. Perhaps we should consider swapping that thread with one of our games thread? Perhaps the Big game? With the big understanding that once a new big thread has started, the old one should not be resurrected (I have learned my lesson ;) )
 
I would rather see the Big Games thread in OT, than the impotent New Game-thread.

Someone should ask if that change is possible. Also promise to report and internally work against a posting of more threads than just one. Heck! After a Big Game is done, ask the mods to transfer it here!
 
Perhaps we can find a way to change the game mechanics a bit to negate the effects? (I know that AOK will probably think "LEAVE WW ALONE!", but I am also thinking that his stance on this is also because he could be afraid to loose his strength of play that way. But maybe that should be part of the plan to improve the game? And AOK could see it as a challenge to improve himself?) Would a change in voting make a difference? Limit of number of vote changes per player? A "sudden" deadline? Any ideas?

In Lite:
Remove the capability to communicate by PM from all players who are not wolves. And before AOK starts ranting about 'leave WW alone...' let me remind you that in the original game, played in person...the village cannot communicate to itself at any time in a private way, all conversations are held in the public square as it were. The only group capable of communicating 'in the dark' were the wolves.

This would require some balancing...but I think you would find new patterns of argumenation emerging other than just a statistical analysis of voting results...

My 0.02 cents.
 
In Lite:
Remove the capability to communicate by PM from all players who are not wolves. And before AOK starts ranting about 'leave WW alone...' let me remind you that in the original game, played in person...the village cannot communicate to itself at any time in a private way, all conversations are held in the public square as it were. The only group capable of communicating 'in the dark' were the wolves.

This would require some balancing...but I think you would find new patterns of argumenation emerging other than just a statistical analysis of voting results...

My 0.02 cents.
Gonzo?