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That was a riveting pair of updates. To lose your King in such a way is totally unfair...yet fits in so well! The way you mix narrative with gameplay is fantastic.

This is without a doubt one of the best AARs I've read. :)
 
Lin'er, who so wanted to be the idealistic 'ideal' ruler, ends up dying an unremarkable death while stamping out an otherwise inconsequential rebellion... Reality has a way of intruding on the ideals, doesn't it?

I hope Wangdue can keep the Kingdom going until the new King can reign (or can be smoothly replaced with a more competent specimen). There's a lot of danger outside of the Kingdom, but at least Wangdue currently has able colleagues who seem more interested in serving the Kingdom than ruling it. For now.
 
This is fantastic. Makes me wish my computer could run MEIOU at more than a snail's crawl.
 
Working on an update, may be up today or tomorrow... In the meantime, I present the dialects of Chinese!

(I can't stress enough that this is for story purposes and is not historically accurate. I researched it as best I could, but there may be some unintentional errors. Moreover, I've made some edits and gross oversimplifications to correspond closer to the game and to eliminate unnecessary detail. Notably, I axed Hakka and Nanjing Mandarin. But yeah, if anything on the map is wrong, a wizard did it.)

dialects-1365-4real.jpg

Left: Just the lect groups. Right: 1365 political borders superimposed on them.

Wu, Min and Yue will be the big ones that matter for the story. Song's primary is Min, Ming's is Wu, and Yue's is... well, y'know. There will also be a fourth major dialect/culture that emerges later on that corresponds to nothing in real life.

(That's about it for "essential" information, and I'd rather just post it out of char than go all, "Consort Li said, 'As you know, Wangdue, I speak the Wu dialect, which is unlike the Min dialect spoken in this city,'" or some silliness on y'all.)

Rest is non-essential, but possibly interesting to some...! The brightest-green Mandarin is Central Plains Mandarin. It's the parent group of Luoyang, Chinese's prestige dialect since ~200 BC. The historical Han Lin'er was probably from that region and spoke a dialect close to Luoyang. Luoyang dialect is also the handwave by which every character can talk to everyone else. :D

I couldn't find good data on how common Luoyang actually was within the scholar-bureaucrat class, but Literary Chinese was a standardized written language (with no spoken equivalent) shared by all Chinese and Korean scholars. In this AAR, neither fare so well. :p

The northern Mandarin region is Beijing dialect. Edit: Added Ba-Shu. I'd previously had it as Sichuanese Mandarin, but later learned Ba-Shu was a thriving lect group/language well into real life's Ming Dynasty. (Ba-Shu was as old as, if not older than, Min, diverging from Early Middle Chinese is the 100s-200s BC.) The blank area in He Zhen is inhabited by the Zhuang people, who speak a Thai language. Qi and Xia aren't pictured... the game says their lands speak Lanyin (another Mandarin dialect) but this is probably anachronistic and I decided to not worry about it. Their cultures may diverge from Han Chinese later in the story. And real world equivs: Wu's prestige dialect is Shanghainese, Yue's is Cantonese. Min is the parent group of Taiwanese.

------

@Edgewise: Haha, the best part is I don't even get to pick my constraints. :D I force myself to follow the game-assigned leader traits/stats. It makes me feel like a real king, getting a generous pacifist for a kid and hating his guts for not wanting to carry on my glorious legacy. But then when I get the deceitful flamboyant schemer I go crazy.

@Memento Mori: I'm glad it worked! When it happened ingame, my only thought was, "Well... that's anticlimactic." But it turned out to fit together rather well.

@Ashantai: Thank you! I'd say the same about yours. :)

@Stuyvesant: Mmm... for now. ;) And w/r/t Lin'er, I did my best to write him as a kind of *model protagonist* that doesn't really exist, then see how he fares in a real world. :p A concept I want to play with. Lin'er isn't done yet, though... historians have a funny way of "reinterpreting" history to suit the zeitgeist. His legacy will go through at least two such revisions in later centuries.

@Faeelin: Thank you! And yeah, it can run kind of slow... it has a crapload going on in the background. You might want to try it without SRI AI (although it's way better with it enabled, it does cause a lot of the slowdown.)

@scholar: Thank you!
 
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That's actually pretty accurate for the time period, though I would think the Wu and Min borders overlapped quite a fair bit. I'll admit to having absolutely no idea what Gan is...
 
That's actually pretty accurate for the time period, though I would think the Wu and Min borders overlapped quite a fair bit. I'll admit to having absolutely no idea what Gan is...
Jiangxinese.
 
Thanks for that information! I am under no illusion that much of it will stick with me (I'm too ignorant of Chinese history or culture - or anything - to tie it to in my brain), but I felt mentally challenged - in a nice way - to process some new information. It's always a bonus to get some education on these forums. :)
 
Wonderful AAR so far. Keep up the good work.

I hope the new Song are as awesome as their predecessors. The RL Song are my favorite dynasty. Gave us Neo-Confucianism, fairly free markets, lots of wonderful landscape painting (I like Guo Xi), and excellent poetry.

Also, I'm excited to see whether you finally put the myth about "one China" to bed. I never understood how this became such an obsession...it's like there were no sources of legitimacy beyond the Mandate of Heaven as interpreted via Legalist-Confucianism.

Please rehabilitate Xunzi. I'd like to see proper Confucianism tried without the Legalist taint.
 
Those are damn impressive maps. Commendable work! :)
 
I was wondering... are these the languages that are spoken by peasants or by the educated classes (if I wanted to sound really ignorant, I'd say "beaurocrats, temples and eunichs" :D)? Is there a language that acts simmilarly to latin in Europe? (fun fact: if one wanted to prove his nobility to a stranger in around XVII Poland, he would say something in latin, as most and almost exclusivly nobles knew it [except clergy, jurists and doctors, that is]).
 
I was wondering... are these the languages that are spoken by peasants or by the educated classes (if I wanted to sound really ignorant, I'd say "beaurocrats, temples and eunichs" :D)? Is there a language that acts simmilarly to latin in Europe? (fun fact: if one wanted to prove his nobility to a stranger in around XVII Poland, he would say something in latin, as most and almost exclusivly nobles knew it [except clergy, jurists and doctors, that is]).

As far as I know the answer is no.

Now there are real arguments about whether Chinese is a language or a language family (many Chinese dialects are mutually unintelligible), but for the most part the educated classes (the Literati i.e. those who studied for and took the Imperial Exams) would recognize each other by their vocabulary and use of poetic or historical allusions (much as modern intelligensia monitor each others' group status).

Chinese is filled filled with sayings, proverbs, references, and allusions that have been standardized to express an idea. Some of the these (called chengyu) are considered literary or 'educated' and others are more folk. The weiqi saying used earlier to describe the Song need to connect its two territories would probably be classified somewhere in the middle...it isn't a literary or historical allusion, but weiqi is a gentleman's game.

They would probably also speak the dialect used at court...which could be the Luoyang dialect, or could be another. In modern China "CCTV" Mandarin which is a standardized version of Beijing dialect is the prestige dialect...and has been for a few centuries now I believe.
 
Kind of a short update today... got finals so probably can't update for a week. Must study math! Also... I kinda got carried away with replies.

@Tanzhang: Np!

@Stuyvesant: Haha. :) Most of the stuff I'm posting, I've learned since ~2 months before starting this game. I'm learning a ton too just by having to research!

@Bagricula: Oh I love the Song too, that's partly why I chose this faction! (Also partly b/c Ming was too cliche, and partly b/c Song's bright blue looks better than Dahan or Tianwan's dull earth colors... :D) Especially Southern Song, imo one of the golden ages of China. And while I can't comment on a unified China, I subscribe to the theory that China was overtaken by Western Europe because they had no competition, and thus no reason to innovate. (Compare the Song, who invented so much awesome stuff when first the Liao/Xi Xia and later the Jin were constant threats, to the Ming, who were so powerful they didn't need to progress at all.) So my goal is to create a plausible situation where competition forces innovation, and China or some subset of China can enter the 19th century as technologically advanced as Europe. Who the competition will be, I won't say. :ninja: And w/r/t Confucianism, I haven't brought it up in the story yet because I haven't had a chance to research it... I'll be done finals next week and plan to work on that over winter break. I'll def read Xun Zi. I like his focus on the earthly rather than the heavenly, but I must admit in my mind I have him all tangled up with his Legalist disciples.

@Ashantai: Thanks! I kind of have a love affair with Photoshop. <3

@Memento Mori: Bagricula mostly hits the nail on the head. The languages/dialects debate I try to avoid b/c it's very politically charged, but the differences between "dialects" of Chinese are enormous compared to the differences between Romance "languages." And they all tended to branch off at different times, so some have preserved or discarded different aspects of the Han-era language. (Like Min was the first to diverge and some "languages"-theory people say Min is actually five different languages. Wiki says Yue has 20 dialects of its own.) For example (from Wiki):
"I'm not feeling well" in Taiwanese, a modern subdialect of Min: Goá kā-kī lâng ū tām-po̍h-á bô sóng-khoài.

Translated to Mandarin cognates: Wǒ jiājǐ rén yǒu dànbó wú shuǎngkuài

But doesn't mean anything. Gloss: "My family's own person is weakly not feeling refreshed."

In Mandarin one would actually say: Wǒ yǒu yīdiǎn bù shūfu.
But I think the language vs. dialect debate is silly. It's a case of trying to fit Chinese concepts into European categories. What actually separates a dialect from a language isn't agreed upon, but some linguists say "Oh, the Chinese dialects are languages because they're more different than the Romance languages." But they ignore the fact that most Chinese political systems for the past ~2000 years have been about unity and similarity, so conquered peoples were brought under the Han umbrella and built a group identity. Whereas Europe has largely been divided since the fall of Rome, so European political systems have tended to favor disunity and difference, especially since the advent of the nation-state. (Hence, a Yue- and a Wu-speaker in the 16th century were cool with a Ming emperor because they're all Chinese. But a Portuguese- and a Neapolitan-speaker were not cool with a Spanish king because their group-identity wasn't "Latin" or "European.")

But to answer your actual question (sorry for getting side-tracked... :blush:), no, there was no *one* standard spoken language the upper classes shared. Luoyang Mandarin was likely common however. Under the Ming, Nanjing Mandarin became the new prestige and try as they might, Ming/Qing couldn't get Beijing Mandarin to catch on. Today's Standard Mandarin only started to gain traction in the 20th century afaik.

There was however a common written language. Classical Chinese was standardized around 200 BC, and it did change some, but every scholar-bureaucrat in all of China read and wrote it until the 20th century (and so could those in Korea until at least the 18th or 19th). Feudalism ended in the 200s BC as well; titles of "nobility" were generally meaningless tokens granted to the emperor's family, and the merit-based scholar-bureaucrat class was the real upper class.

(I'll stop now before this is longer than the actual update... :rofl:)
 
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Chapter 10: Machinations

song-capitol-1365.jpg

The entrance to the Song Capitol in Hangzhou. Until the 15th century, this one building served as the headquarters of all three government departments and as the royal throne.

Jibi Zhenghu sits far back in the lobby of the capitol building, arms crossed, brow crinkled, watching the Minister of Rites* fawn over Consort Li and her retinue. Zhenghu detests the woman. Chancellor Wangdue and Prime Minister Wangyi blind themselves to her vile nature. He and Wongkwai had argued for the war to go on until she was destroyed, but the spineless bureaucrats overruled the two military men. Wangyi even suggested Song should take nothing but a link to the Yangtze and work toward rapprochement. As if evil could be reckoned with.

Zhenghu's anger has been getting the better of him lately. The Supreme Buddha warned of this, warned that hatred does not cease by hatred. But Li is a special case. Li must be stopped, lest she pollute the Middle Kingdom with her filth. She should be thrown in front of the court, dressed in rags and bound by chains, not welcomed with open arms like a king.

The door to the council chamber swings open, and Wangdue steps out to greet her. Zhenghu curls up his lip. He's too far away to hear their conversation. Wangdue had ordered him to stay away from her. They bow to each other. Pathetic. The Chancellor humbles himself to a woman. Lin'er would have crushed her under his heel.

____________​

“Mom?”

“Yes, baby?”

“When is Dad coming home?”

“Baby... come here, come here. Give your mother a hug. I told you, baby. Don't you remember? I told you. Some evil people hurt Lin'er very badly, so he can't come home.”

“...”

“What's wrong, baby?”

“It's because of me, isn't it?”

“Wh--no, baby, how could it--”

“He didn't like me. So he went away.”

“No, baby, that isn't... No, no...”

____________​

Chancellor Wangdue and Queen Mother Li sit opposite each other at the center of the council table. Wangdue means for the seating arrangement to convey a sense of equality. At the ends of the table, members of the Song Secretariat and Ming entourage transcribe everything said between the two rulers. The scene is an odd one, to be sure: a Tibetan Buddhist monk dressed as a Confucian scholar, and a twenty-five-year-old former concubine clad in the masculine robes of a king, together planning to end a war.

“In addition to the area around the fishing village, we take the entire northern bank of the Yangtze and its alluvial islands. However, you may sail through the delta freely. We both promulgate decrees recognizing each other as legitimate monarchies until Heaven bestows a Mandate upon one of our kings. Do you find these terms acceptable?”

Li raises an eyebrow. “Is this a negotiation, or an imposition?”

“Although we won't be allies, I'd like to foster good feelings between our kingdoms. I'm willing to consider your opinion of the peace treaty.”

“Well,” she says, “the treaty is fair. The only thing I'd ask is free passage between my capital and the north.”

Wangdue nods to the secretaries at the end of the table. They rifle through the papers in front of them, scribbling amendments and adjusting borders where necessary. When finished, they present the treaty and map to the two sovereigns for their seals. Li carefully scrutinizes every line before giving hers, but with everything in order, the peace is made official. Riders are dispatched to announce the end of the war and arrange the handing over of territory.

1365-ming-peace.jpg


1365-treaty-pic2.jpg

“Now that that's done with,” Wangdue says, “I thought we might talk more informally. If you so desire.”

“I don't see why not.”

They dismiss their people from the room so as to speak in private. Wangdue gets a jar of wine from a cabinet and pours them each a cup. Li doesn't touch hers. She puts her hands in her lap and sits motionless, eying the cup fearfully. Wangdue reaches across the table for it, takes a sip, and sets it back in front of her. Li eases up, and they drink together.

“You think I would sign a treaty with you, then moments later slip you venom?” Wangdue's tone is more playful than accusatory.

“Nothing against you in particular. A woman with power can't last very long if she's the trusting type.”

“Your court is that volatile, then?”

Li smirks. “I see why they call you the Old Fox.** I'm more than happy to discuss foreign affairs, but if you want to debrief me on my domestic situation, you'll have to do better than that.”

Wangdue bows his head in acknowledgment. “Duly noted. By the way...”

“Hm?”

“That's one hell of a seal you have.”

She chokes on her wine, trying to stifle a laugh. “I could say the same of yours.”***

They talk for some time before Li departs for Nanjing. Neither really trusts their opposite number, and they make no official pacts. But their conversations put to rest many of the rumors that float on both sides of the border, and they find they can at least respect each other. They reach a cool understanding that neither really wants another war. Or, at least, they don't want one under the present status quo. Li's speech remains guarded throughout, but they both hint at vague “internal problems” they must “correct” in their respective kingdoms before worrying about external issues.

It isn't long before Wangdue's suspicions about the Ming court, however, are proven true. Frustrated by the failure of the war and determined to enthrone a man in place of the “mere girl” who rules over them, a faction of Ming imperialists attempt to assassinate Queen Li. Despite a sword slash from the base of her neck down her entire back, she manages to survive. The resultant investigation implicates dozens of bureaucrats, all the way from the lowest ranks to her inner circle. In the months to follow, she violently purges over a third of her government.

Meanwhile, Chancellor Wangdue, Prime Minister Wangyi, and Marshal Wongkwai work with their respective departments to establish their visions of the Song Kingdom as reality. And although they draw up their plans in isolation, all of them mean to radically transform the society Han Lin'er had envisioned.

-----
*Traditionally, the Ministry of Rites was responsible for conducting state rituals, maintaining registers of Buddhist and Taoist priests and monks, and handling foreign relations. This stemmed from Imperial China's preeminent position and all surrounding states' tributary relationships with the empire. However, the emergence of the Chinese kingdoms made an actual diplomatic corps necessary. Wangdue shifted this power to the Secretariat and gave Rites a purely ceremonial role; many bureaucrats at the time jokingly referred to Rites as the “Ministry of Welcoming Committees.”

**Much like in English, being a “fox” has twin connotations in Chinese: either a rake or seductress, or a sly trickster. Appending “old” (laohu) removes much of the sexual connotation.

***On the map image, Wangdue's stamp (bottom) does not have his name. Instead, he signs on behalf of the entire Secretariat. Li's (top) reads, character-for-character, “Zhu Li King Seal,” appropriating Yuanzhang's family name and ignoring Li's de jure status and sex altogether.
 
I'm curious though why Queen Li would have so much trouble based on her sex. Many strong female rulers have held power in China durring the Dynastic period.

There was only one, and she was reviled by Chinese historians for some 1200 years after her reign. That's Confucianism for you.
 
There was only one, and she was reviled by Chinese historians for some 1200 years after her reign. That's Confucianism for you.

Hmm, I was thinking of all the Empress Dowagers/Grand Empress Dowagers and such. I guess it would be different for a Queen/Empress with no Emperor.
 
Hmm, I was thinking of all the Empress Dowagers/Grand Empress Dowagers and such. I guess it would be different for a Queen/Empress with no Emperor.

Cixi was the only one to wield anything close to real power in her own right (as opposed to simply influencing the actions of an Emperor), but she was born after 1821 so she doesn't count.
 
Excellent update, and I love the images as always! :)