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AGC-EEP Ottoman Empire & Asia Minor

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Fodoron said:
From Wikipedia, demographic history of Macedonia:


So it looks as it can indeed turn Sunni Turkish after conquest, but should turn Greek Orthodox again around 1780-1800.
That would be satisfactory to me.
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I'm agree. It's without importance for ottomans if Macedonia is turkish or not in 1780. There are so many problems for them...
 
crash63 said:
I'm agree. It's without importance for ottomans if Macedonia is turkish or not in 1780. There are so many problems for them...
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The area turned to Greek Orthodox majority only after the 1924 population exchange treaty. Please check the relative population records of the Ottoman Empire. It's easy to fall under the influence of post Balkan War propaganda statistics.
 
Tunch Khan said:
The area turned to Greek Orthodox majority only after the 1924 population exchange treaty. Please check the relative population records of the Ottoman Empire. It's easy to fall under the influence of post Balkan War propaganda statistics.
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If it is a controversial issue where each side has different propaganda statistics then we will just default to vanilla situation as the least problematic solution.

On a side note, as I understand it, the late 18th and 19th centuries saw a lot of conversions in the area, first from Orthodox to Muslim, and later the reverse. So many record changes were not migrations.
 
Fodoron said:
I did extensive testing on OE Land technology for 1.37. The results are posted here.
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Why not test with latest version ( eu2 1.09 and "decadence" events ) ? ;)
Ottos only have better technology if stay small. turn to moslem tech, instability, civil war, bancrupcy, reduce land research ..etc :D
 
Ibnu Fuad said:
Why not test with latest version ( eu2 1.09 and "decadence" events ) ? ;)
Click to expand...
Sure, why not? Be my guest.
Adjusting EU2 is a neverending task. Some things that have not been checked since who knows when are atracting my efforts right now.
 
YodaMaster said:
For albanian culture, yes, it is a simple solution but no need to own the province in order to be "able" to rule it without malus.

I have no idea for Macedonia and greek/turkish culture. Why not with your proposal. But id should be 301062.
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Changed id

Has changing the province of Kosovo to albanian culture mentioned before?
 
YodaMaster said:
Was it submitted?
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Not that I know of. I asked if there already was a a discussion about kosovo/albanian somewhere so that I could look what was written. If nothing ever was I could imagine an event to turn the provinceculture for Kosovo from slavonic to albanian after the Ottomans have taken over Albania and conquered Serbia (or ahistorically for an Albania that manages to survive).
 
ConjurerDragon said:
Not that I know of. I asked if there already was a a discussion about kosovo/albanian somewhere so that I could look what was written. If nothing ever was I could imagine an event to turn the provinceculture for Kosovo from slavonic to albanian after the Ottomans have taken over Albania and conquered Serbia (or ahistorically for an Albania that manages to survive).
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Albanians in Kosovo?

IRC the migration occurred very late in EU2 time or only in the 19th century.

I thought Kosovo was always a serbian bastion
 
This is the problem with Kosovo nowadays... heart of Serbia for Serbs but populated at 90% or more with Albanians now:
By 1190 Kosovo had become the administrative and cultural center of the medieval Serbian state ruled by the powerful Nemanjic dynasty. This dynasty lasted 200 years and still today Kosovo is known by Serbians as "Old Serbia". However in 1389, in the famous Battle of Kosovo Polje, the Serbs and their allies were defeated by the Ottoman Turks and shortly Kosovo became part of the Ottoman Empire. Albanians started to move back into Kosovo in considerable numbers in the 15th century and the Ottomans took sovereignty over the region in 1489. During this time the great majority of Albanians were still Christians, and Serbs and Albanians lived together in reasonable harmony. Gradually Albanians and to a lesser extent Serbs became converted to Islam. Serb resistance to conversion was strengthened by activities of the Orthodox Church since Kosovo contained many seminaries and was the home of the Serbian Orthodox Church. In the late 17th century Serbs left Kosovo in large numbers as a result of military victories of the Ottoman Turks. This caused the Serbian "center of gravity" to move northward to the region of Belgrade where it has remained ever since. This displacement of the Serb population is known in history as "the great migration". As a result, the region of Kosovo became underpopulated and, attracted by available fertile land, was resettled by Albanians moving eastward from the hills of Albania. At this time these Albanians were both Christian and Muslim.
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Source

Kosovo could become albanian after OE following event:
Code: 
#(1460-1485) Serbians flee to Hungary
event = {
	id = 301028 #triggered by HUN_188116
	random = no
	country = TUR
	name = "EVENTNAME301028" #Serbians flee to Hungary
	desc = "EVENTHIST301028"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME301028A" #Curse the infidels
		command = { type = population which = 363 value = -3000 } #Kosovo
		command = { type = population which = 355 value = -5000 } #Serbia
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = 363 value = -1 } #Kosovo
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = 355 value = -1 } #Serbia
		command = { type = provincetax which = 363 value = -1 } #Kosovo
		command = { type = provincetax which = 355 value = -1 } #Serbia
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -50 }
	}
}
#-#Serbia was annexed by the Ottoman Empire in 1459. As a consequence, many Serbs fled north, to the Kingdom of Hungary.


But this event is too soon... and a new one could be created for late 17th century.
 
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YodaMaster said:
This is the problem with Kosovo nowadays... heart of Serbia for Serbs but populated at 90% or more with Albanians now:
Source

Kosovo could become albanian after OE following event:
Code: 
#(1460-1485) Serbians flee to Hungary
event = {
	id = 301028 #triggered by HUN_188116
	random = no
	country = TUR
	name = "EVENTNAME301028" #Serbians flee to Hungary
	desc = "EVENTHIST301028"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME301028A" #Curse the infidels
		command = { type = population which = 363 value = -3000 } #Kosovo
		command = { type = population which = 355 value = -5000 } #Serbia
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = 363 value = -1 } #Kosovo
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = 355 value = -1 } #Serbia
		command = { type = provincetax which = 363 value = -1 } #Kosovo
		command = { type = provincetax which = 355 value = -1 } #Serbia
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -50 }
	}
}
#-#Serbia was annexed by the Ottoman Empire in 1459. As a consequence, many Serbs fled north, to the Kingdom of Hungary.


But this event is too soon... and a new one could be created for late 17th century.
Click to expand...

ok, missed it when i was reviewing the Illyrian culture,
as the southern illyrians became Albanians , the northern illyrians became Dalmatians
 
Toio said:
I find the events below either incomplete or question to queries.

Code: 
#(1430-1434) Fall of Thessalonica - Venetians
event = {
	id = 23007
	trigger = {
		event = 23005
		NOT = { owned = { province = 358 data = -1 } }
	}
	random = no
	country = VEN
	name = "EVENTNAME23007" #Fall of Thessalonica
	desc = "EVENTHIST23007"
	#-#In 1430 Murad II's Turkish forces finally overcame the Venetians who had held Thessalonica since 1423. The loss of the rich trading city stung Venice's pockets and pride.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1430 }
	offset = 400
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1434 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME23007A" #Thessalonica is lost
		command = { type = vp value = -10 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
                [COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = population which = 479 value = 2000 } #ionia[/COLOR]
		command = { type = removecore which = 358 } #Macedonia
	}
}

After the agreement to surrender the town of salonika, the Venetians where permitted to transport with them all venetian and loyal byzantine citizens to negroponte (ionia), so I have recommend the changes in yellow above


Code: 
#(1421) Pretender to the Ottoman Throne
event = {
	id = 23002 #triggered by BYZ_23000 A
	random = no
	country = TUR
	name = "EVENTNAME23000" #Pretender to the Ottoman Throne
	desc = "EVENTHIST23000"
	#-#In 1421 the Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed I, died. His son, Murad II, ascended the throne. However, the Byzantines were holding Mehmed's brother, Mustafa, prisoner on the island of Lemnos. Hoping for the best, and urged on by his son (John VIII), Manuel II released this pretender to the throne, creating civil war in the Ottoman Empire. The Venetians took the opportunity to attack the Ottoman navy.

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME23002A" #Focus on the revolts
		command = { type = revolt which = 358 } #Macedonia
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = revolt which = 477 } #Anatolia[/COLOR]
		command = { type = inf which = -1 value = 5000 }
		command = { type = cav which = -3 value = 5000 }
	}
}
#(1421) Pretender to the Ottoman Throne
event = {
	id = 23003 #triggered by BYZ_23000 D
	random = no
	country = TUR
	name = "EVENTNAME23000" #Pretender to the Ottoman Throne
	desc = "EVENTHIST23000"
	#-#In 1421 the Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed I, died. His son, Murad II, ascended the throne. However, the Byzantines were holding Mehmed's brother, Mustafa, prisoner on the island of Lemnos. Hoping for the best, and urged on by his son (John VIII), Manuel II released this pretender to the throne, creating civil war in the Ottoman Empire. The Venetians took the opportunity to attack the Ottoman navy.

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME23002A" #Focus on the revolts
		command = { type = revolt which = 358 } #Macedonia
		command = { type = revolt which = 358 } #Macedonia
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = revolt which = 477 } #Anatolia
		command = { type = revolt which = 477 } #Anatolia[/COLOR]
		command = { type = inf which = -1 value = 5000 }
		command = { type = cav which = -3 value = 5000 }
	}
}

why the revolts in both macedonia and anatolia, should it not be one or the other, preferebly only macedonia?

Code: 
#(1424) Treaty of 1424
event = {
	id = 23006 #triggered by BYZ_23004 A
	random = no
	country = TUR
	name = "EVENTNAME23004" #Treaty of 1424
	desc = "EVENTHIST23004"
	#-#Murad rapidly put down Mustafa's revolt, and angrily attacked Byzantium. Manuel released another pretender, also named Mustafa, who was the brother of Murad, but this one fared no better. In 1423 the Turks invaded Morea, smashing through the Hexamilium (6 mile wall) that Manuel II had built across the Isthmus of Corinth for protection in 1414. They also pressed Thessalonica, still a Byzantine city, so hard that the governor turned it over to the Venetians and wished them better luck. By 1424, with no help forthcoming, the Byzantines sadly accepted vassalage to the Turks. Venice held onto Thessalonica until 1430.

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME23006A" #Accept the Treaty
		command = { type = vassal which = BYZ }
                [COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = casusbelli which = SPR value = 72 } #morea[/COLOR]
	}
}

I think a cassusbelli on morea from 1424 to 1430 needs to be added.


and lastly, I thought the artillery from the OE armies at start of GC was supposed to be removed?
Click to expand...


With no response from anyone, I will submit these additions and removals from the above events in the near future.
 
Toio said:
With no response from anyone, I will submit these additions and removals from the above events in the near future.
Click to expand...

A question about the loss of Thessalonica - if Ionia adds 2000 population, are these substracted in another event in Thessalonica?


About Morea: The Ottomans get a permanent Casus Belli on Morea in 1451 with the "Conquests of Mehmed II" event when they gain a core on Morea. Should they really get a casus belli before? If they get one in 1424 the risk that Morea vanishes before it historically vanished is high.

That would seem contraproductive - wasn´t the whole reason of the division of Byzanz and Morea as compared to a united Byzanz+Morea (in the vanilla game) to ensure that Morea will survive the fall of Byzanz and not that in 1424 Byzanz is saved by an event making it a vassal and Morea in annexed due to a casus belli?
 
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ConjurerDragon said:
A question about the loss of Thessalonica - if Ionia adds 2000 population, are these substracted in another event in Thessalonica?
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having recalculated the Pop values and trying to fit in with the population thread , i have changed it to be 500, and no I do not think we need to subtract these small amounts due to the fact that the pops are in error anyway.



About Morea: The Ottomans get a permanent Casus Belli on Morea in 1451 with the "Conquests of Mehmed II" event when they gain a core on Morea. Should they really get a casus belli before? If they get one in 1424 the risk that Morea vanishes before it historically vanished is high.

That would seem contraproductive - wasn´t the whole reason of the division of Byzanz and Morea as compared to a united Byzanz+Morea (in the vanilla game) to ensure that Morea will survive the fall of Byzanz and not that in 1424 Byzanz is saved by an event making it a vassal and Morea in annexed due to a casus belli?
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lets look at the historical part of morea , and then we can come to a conclusion if more events are needed.


1407 - morea is a vassal of OE (suzerainty)

1432 - morea take all of the achaea (not in map at the moment)

1444 - morea, under constanine XI DOWs athens and takes the duchy, athens submits to being a vassal of morea

1446 - OE upset at this (as athens was a vassal of OE), DOW morea, and cross into the morea, morea again is a vassal of OE

1460 - morea is taken over by OE

1460 - mass exodus and killings of Greeks , while the Albanians are left alone in the morea as a counter balance.

1477-1490, Kladas revolt (mani) in the morea against the OE

If we procedure with writings these extra events, then morea is a vassal of OE and NO war will happen.

if we do not write further events for morea , then we need to change the status of morea to be a vassal of OE at start of GC, again the CB will not likely bring war, also we can cease the CB when murad dies.

thoughts???
 
About OE land tech, I raised it to 5 in 1.51 beta. With my tests, it is good for OE, especially against a big hungarian alliance or against Ak Koyunlu or Kara koyunlu if needed but maybe it is too much for other neighbors.
 
Norrefeldt said:
IIRC the suzerainity of Morea under the Ottomans wasn't as strict as the EU2 vassalage is. If establishing a EU2 vassalage, wouldn't it cost OE extra stab to break it in order to attack? The AI might at least do that.
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meaning of suzerainity

Suzerainty
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Suzerainty (soó-zer-en-tee, -ze-rayn'-tee) is a situation in which a region or people is a tributary to a more powerful entity which allows the tributary some limited domestic autonomy but controls its foreign affairs. The more powerful entity in the suzerainty relationship, or the head of state of that more powerful entity, is called a suzerain. The term suzerainty was originally used to describe the relationship between the Ottoman Empire and its surrounding regions. It differs from sovereignty in that the tributary has some (limited) self-rule. As well a suzerain can mean a feudal lord, to whom vassals must pay tribute.

Although it is a concept which has existed in a number of historical empires, it is a concept that is very difficult to describe using 20th- or 21st-century theories of international law, in which sovereignty either exists or does not. While a sovereign nation can agree by treaty to become a protectorate of a stronger power, modern international law does not recognize any way of making this relationship theoretically irrevocable by the weaker power.


going by this, then the OE never had any vassals, so we should use the term of suzerainity for OE as it basically means the same thing.
 
YodaMaster said:
I'm sure AI OE will do that if province is core and worst if SPR in histlist.
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If they are already on hitlist and core , what does these extra events change??
 
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