EU4 - Development Diary - 23rd of June 2016

[Wagonlitz]

Anything concerning a Protestant League unit pack? France, a central nation to this game still has no proper unit skins.

The pack exists and was supposed to be given out for free some time ago, but by mistake they gave away the Catholic League pack away for free. So far it isn't known if the Protestant League pack ever will be released.
It can be seen in e.g. DDRJake's steams.

 

[The Harbringer]

Looks good!

 

[ahyangyi]

It's a bit weird. Why don't any other Anatolian beylik receive the same government form, even if they become an empire?

 

[Mechanical Franz]

DDR keeps moaning about things to do in times of peace, so here's a top suggestion, even if i say so myself. Incorporate Caesar III city building into every city on the map, and develop them that way -- or NOT at ALL . . .

 

[Ambarenya]

1) England
2) France
3) Ottomans
...
14) Byzantium

Besides that (why I cut the rest of your reply) - I really don't know what do you expect. Yeah, compared to the American DLC the Byzantium one wasn't very good. But it's already there and I really doubt that anyone is going to make another one for EU4.

I don't see a reason why developers should be adding more Byz specific fluff, while I counted 13 nations, which I think can be considered major tags, with less events, not to mention the likes of Teutonic Order and Britanny with barely any fluff.

Spoiler

Scotland, Milan, Morocco, Bohemia (!), Manchu, Aragon (!), Naples, Timmy, Mughals, Bavaria, Novgorod, Hansa/Lubeck

I expect that a thousand-year Empire, and one of the most influential states of the Middle Ages (and the one whose fall demarcates the end of that age), get proper representation in an historical game about Early Modern Europe. The Fall of Constantinople was a hugely significant event, but this game doesn't give you a sense of why it is so significant. It's because the Byzantine faction isn't represented right. It's pathetically downplayed, giving you no understanding of its importance. It simply continues the tired trend in generalized historical education of not explaining who the Byzantines really were, promoting a centuries-old bias that is hugely ignorant and outdated.

Not even having the correct regnal numbers for several pretty prominent Imperial names is a joke (do you see many other factions with Imperial lines that stretch back 1000 years, unbroken? Didn't think so). Not having events that tell you about the Empire's hugely important past is a joke. Modern Europe wouldn't have existed as we know it without Byzantium. For most of its history, it was THE Empire to which all other Empires measured themselves. Even in its twilight years, its leaders and scholars still were received with great respect by the courts of Western Europe, despite the fact that their Empire was dying. Heck, the title of Byzantine Emperor still garnered respect, and a significant price nearly a century after the Empire no longer existed. The loss of Constantinople was often described as "the greatest loss for Christendom", with many clamoring for a Crusade, even when all the others failed. The taking of Constantinople by the Turks was prophetic for Islam too, because the fall of Rum is mentioned in hadith, and Mehmed used that knowledge to legitimize the Ottoman claim to the title of Caliph. So, not at all insignificant.

And again, I don't know why you keep going off about adding things. Did I not say that things don't need to be added? Simply adjusting existing things to make them more historically aware would do wonders for the DLC. Adding a few small things would be nice (like the events I mentioned, which do not significantly alter the game, but at least provide some interesting historically-based events), but these are not necessary. I feel, as usual, you're not listening at all to what I'm saying, which is a common theme it seems. I don't get why people are so resistant to fixing this one (hugely important) faction in a game called Europa Universalis, yet are all on the bandwagon for adding content to far less significant ones. There is a massive double standard when it comes to discussing any adjustment to Byzantium as well -- let me guess "they only exist 11 years into the start of the game, so they don't need to be represented right"? Rebuttal: Purple Phoenix DLC exists to allow you to play as Byzantium for potentially far longer than 11 years. And Byzantium is survivable for experienced players. And probably a quarter of the factions in the game either don't exist at the beginning or last only a short amount of time. And somehow those are more deserving, despite not having a thousand years of hugely influential history backing them? Please.

As I see it, there is no argument you can make that is logically consistent and valid in this regard, because you are purposely ignoring and unwilling to listen to the historical precedents.

Bottom line: Byzantium is poorly represented for such a rich and historically important faction and could do with a decent revamp. Fix the units, fix the names, give it some historical flair. Events should talk about Theodosius "building these strong walls", Basil II holding mass at the Acropolis in Athens, John II Komnenos triumphantly marching into Antioch, Greek Fire terrifying enemies in days past. Tell us about the story. Not something as mundane and trivial as "the Empire runs on paper". Plus, the Byzantines are the historical and very ancient rivals of the Turks, the Caliphate, and Islam in general, it's only fair to give them a little love when you're just piling on the additions to the Ottomans. I rest my case.

P.S. my offer also still stands, "Empire of Angels" already has most of the work done for you.

 

[Dakka]

The pack exists and was supposed to be given out for free some time ago, but by mistake they gave away the Catholic League pack away for free. So far it isn't known if the Protestant League pack ever will be released.
It can be seen in e.g. DDRJake's steams.

Pfffft they can be seen in the Paradox Modding ribbon at the top of the forum screen

Bjorn said that they are basically waiting on the go ahead from marketing, if I recall correctly, as they've been ready since December. There are some nice mods for all three nations though that work well enough.

 

[Streichquartett]

Pfffft they can be seen in the Paradox Modding ribbon at the top of the forum screen

Bjorn said that they are basically waiting on the go ahead from marketing, if I recall correctly, as they've been ready since December. There are some nice mods for all three nations though that work well enough.

I'm tired of fighting dull frenchmen, bring me some fancy frenchies!

My redcoats are thirsty.

 

[Dakka]

I'm tired of fighting dull frenchmen, bring me some fancy frenchies!

My redcoats are thirsty.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=667191882&searchtext=french
Enjoy

 

[Emre Yigit]

I expect that a thousand-year Empire, and one of the most influential states of the Middle Ages (and the one whose fall demarcates the end of that age), get proper representation in an historical game about Early Modern Europe. The Fall of Constantinople was a hugely significant event, but this game doesn't give you a sense of why it is so significant. It's because the Byzantine faction isn't represented right. It's pathetically downplayed, giving you no understanding of its importance. It simply continues the tired trend in generalized historical education of not explaining who the Byzantines really were, promoting a centuries-old bias that is hugely ignorant and outdated.

Not even having the correct regnal numbers for several pretty prominent Imperial names is a joke (do you see many other factions with Imperial lines that stretch back 1000 years, unbroken? Didn't think so). Not having events that tell you about the Empire's hugely important past is a joke. Modern Europe wouldn't have existed as we know it without Byzantium. For most of its history, it was THE Empire to which all other Empires measured themselves. Even in its twilight years, its leaders and scholars still were received with great respect by the courts of Western Europe, despite the fact that their Empire was dying. Heck, the title of Byzantine Emperor still garnered respect, and a significant price nearly a century after the Empire no longer existed. The loss of Constantinople was often described as "the greatest loss for Christendom", with many clamoring for a Crusade, even when all the others failed. The taking of Constantinople by the Turks was prophetic for Islam too, because the fall of Rum is mentioned in hadith, and Mehmed used that knowledge to legitimize the Ottoman claim to the title of Caliph. So, not at all insignificant.

And again, I don't know why you keep going off about adding things. Did I not say that things don't need to be added? Simply adjusting existing things to make them more historically aware would do wonders for the DLC. Adding a few small things would be nice (like the events I mentioned, which do not significantly alter the game, but at least provide some interesting historically-based events), but these are not necessary. I feel, as usual, you're not listening at all to what I'm saying, which is a common theme it seems. I don't get why people are so resistant to fixing this one (hugely important) faction in a game called Europa Universalis, yet are all on the bandwagon for adding content to far less significant ones. There is a massive double standard when it comes to discussing any adjustment to Byzantium as well -- let me guess "they only exist 11 years into the start of the game, so they don't need to be represented right"? Rebuttal: Purple Phoenix DLC exists to allow you to play as Byzantium for potentially far longer than 11 years. And Byzantium is survivable for experienced players. And probably a quarter of the factions in the game either don't exist at the beginning or last only a short amount of time. And somehow those are more deserving, despite not having a thousand years of hugely influential history backing them? Please.

As I see it, there is no argument you can make that is logically consistent and valid in this regard, because you are purposely ignoring and unwilling to listen to the historical precedents.

Bottom line: Byzantium is poorly represented for such a rich and historically important faction and could do with a decent revamp. Fix the units, fix the names, give it some historical flair. Events should talk about Theodosius "building these strong walls", Basil II holding mass at the Acropolis in Athens, John II Komnenos triumphantly marching into Antioch, Greek Fire terrifying enemies in days past. Tell us about the story. Not something as mundane and trivial as "the Empire runs on paper". Plus, the Byzantines are the historical and very ancient rivals of the Turks, the Caliphate, and Islam in general, it's only fair to give them a little love when you're just piling on the additions to the Ottomans. I rest my case.

P.S. my offer also still stands, "Empire of Angels" already has most of the work done for you.

I must agree, I too find the regnal numbers highly annoying. As for the rest - why not publish it either as a mod, or give it to Paradox to incorporate in the game?

 

[Ambarenya]

I must agree, I too find the regnal numbers highly annoying. As for the rest - why not publish it either as a mod, or give it to Paradox to incorporate in the game?

It hasn't been published due to uncertainty with the changes coming to tech groups and other things with the next major update.

However, in regards to the other content (historical text, names, etc), I am offering it up to Paradox if they want it.

 

[Johan]

Well, DDRJake is in charge currently, so ....

Actually @Anona is in charge of the project.

 

[Dhæjjal]

Well they are the new Rome right ?

after the fall of Constantinople (or Konstantiniyye - was the official name of the city according to Ottos till Ataturk)
Mehmet II the conquerer added the following title among some others after the fall of East Romans;
Qayser-i Rûm / Kayzer-i Rum
Rum in Turkish means Roman
Kayzer as you reckon Ceaser (yes like Kayzer Soze)
yes adopting a title doesnt make them Romans but the thing is Mehmet also derived/adopted most of the instutitions of the Romans as well,
so the turkish sultanate wasn't turkish enough anymore it was something else after Mehmet the second.

 

[Woifee]

Is it possible to force someone in a peace treaty to abdicate?

 

[moscal]

Abdication should be more restrictive - too much risk to exploismus

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

Actually @Anona is in charge of the project.

Is it possible to force someone in a peace treaty to abdicate?

That would be really interesting! If I were Paradox I'd implement it, but only under a certain Casus Belli so that we won't see big bullies dethroning everyone around them who has better stats than 4/4/4. That CB could also increase cost of provinces in the peace deal, as it's not the main purpose of the war.

Abdication should be more restrictive - too much risk to exploismus

It seems restrictive enough to me. You have to wait quarter of century or have a really old ruler to abdicate and you take a massive prestige and legitimacy hit, which is worse than it sounds like. This way you can't really afford abdicating both starting Timurid rulers without crippling your country even more than it already is.

 

[Hodbin Hood]

@Johan Please change Ottomans' map colour in the next patch. It's not true colour.

 

[hashinshin]

Forced abdication would need to be a 100% warscore goal or it'd be retardedly imbalanced. Even then it wouldn't contribute any "fun" to the game and could easily be exploited in multiplayer.

 

[Woifee]

@Johan Please change Ottomans' map colour in the next patch. It's not true colour.

Or even better, let us in the game change color of every nation you met.

Sometimes you have two blue next to each other and it would be better to have one red or something.

But both would be better in the suggestion forum.

 

[seriousgigi]

@Johan Please change Ottomans' map colour in the next patch. It's not true colour.

ottomans in meiou&taxes

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

ottomans in meiou&taxes

Meh, to me it would look really weird, especially if Timmies managed to survive. Green fits the Ottomans pretty well, can't imagine such aggressive colour conquering everything left and right.

But hey, to each his own, this option would let us fix every colour we want *cough* Prussia *cough*

Or even better, let us in the game change color of every nation you met.

Sometimes you have two blue next to each other and it would be better to have one red or something.

But both would be better in the suggestion forum.