Why can't we play Muslims or pagans?

[Darkrenown]

You completely miss the point, by your logic if Scotland and England were the only playable nations the game would still be "Crusader Kings" and would still be what we brought. In addition, they have made the Muslim nations fine, they work just like all others work but they want to make you pay more for what is there, to fix your point this is like buying a car and paying extra to get the trunk open.

No, it's always been said you can only play Christian nobles. What people finds baffling is there's a game called "Crusader Kings 2" which is advertised with the line "Take on the role of a Christian noble and carry them through the ages from Count to Emperor via the line of succession" and then you get angry when you find you can only play as a Christian noble. Whatever gave you the idea you'd be able to play non-Christians? The quoted line is on our web page, on the game's box, on the Steam store page etc. At no point have we ever said you could play as a non-Christian noble. On a similar note, if you bought a game called "Kings of Scotland and England - A game in which you can only play the aforementioned Kings!" people would be pretty confused if you turned up on the forum to complain you can't play the French. If you just buy random games and then get upset when they don't have the features you imagined they might have you have no one to blame but yourself.

Do you even own CK2? I note you have not registered it.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

To the other gentleman, just saying that it's ok because lots of other companies do it is not justification, it is condemning.

It seems that you completely missed the point of my argument. It was that in many games only some factions are designed to be playable while others are there as enemies, neutrals or minor factions. Even some board games have these unplayable factions and usually no one is complaining that you should be able to play as them. CK games have always focused on Christian feudal lord and Paradox never claimed that all factions would be playable. So we got exactly what was promised when we bought the game. I'm sorry if you didn't like the game, but for me this game is what I have been waiting for years, because it finally fixed those things which annoyed me in CK1.

And despite the fact that CKII is clearly one of the best games Paradox has made there's nothing but complain. Others complain that you should be able to play everyone no matter how bland the experience would be. And then there are others who complain how Byzantium and Rus are wrong in CKII and they should have more Orthodox colour instead of using the same feudal mechanics which Western countries use. If Muslims and Pagans were playable someone would complain that feudal mechanics are wrong for them. No matter what they do people will always complain.

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

The name of the game is Crusader Kings, as others have said, that should be a hint. I'm glad that there is a game focusing in Feudal Europe politics and relashionships, because that is the game I want to play.

 

[unmerged(445458)]

Part of the problem is that when you click on a Muslim or Pagan or Prince-Bishop or whatever, it tells you "Not allowed to play as [X]!" Who the hell are you, game I paid $40 for, to tell me who I am or am not "allowed" to play as? I think you misunderstand, I am your owner now, if I say jump you say "how high".

I tried to imprison it for treason but it fled to another court.

 

[unmerged(407992)]

No, it's always been said you can only play Christian nobles. What people finds baffling is there's a game called "Crusader Kings 2" which is advertised with the line "Take on the role of a Christian noble and carry them through the ages from Count to Emperor via the line of succession" and then you get angry when you find you can only play as a Christian noble. Whatever gave you the idea you'd be able to play non-Christians? The quoted line is on our web page, on the game's box, on the Steam store page etc. At no point have we ever said you could play as a non-Christian noble. On a similar note, if you bought a game called "Kings of Scotland and England - A game in which you can only play the aforementioned Kings!" people would be pretty confused if you turned up on the forum to complain you can't play the French. If you just buy random games and then get upset when they don't have the features you imagined they might have you have no one to blame but yourself.

Do you even own CK2? I note you have not registered it.

You assume what we are asking for is Muslim/Pagan play; our argument is that its totally impossible without making Christian play equally unplayable which is quite an awkward implementation for modders.
I'm glad that the intent isn't to lock out modders but you have essentially solved a small problem with a huge blunt hammer.

Whether we own CK2 or not is an ad hominem attack, that isn't the point of the debate.

 

[Darkrenown]

You assume what we are asking for is Muslim/Pagan play; our argument is that its totally impossible without making Christian play equally impossible which is quite an awkward implementation for modders.

Whether we own CK2 or not is an ad hominem attack, that isn't the point of the debate.

A) I addressed modding on the previous page and was answering a different line of argument altogether, my post was a reply to the post I quoted. Which should be obvious. As a general outline there are 2 issues in this thread: 1) If non-Christians should be playable in the game. 2)How this affects modding.
B) It is not an ad hominem attack, don't be ridiculous. If he, or indeed you, own the game is entirely relevant as it it makes the difference between a customer disappointed with a product he bought and someone picking a fight just for the sake of it. Or, in the case of piracy, it's rather amusing when someone who steals your product accuses you of cutting features so as to sell DLC due to "greed".

 

[lordreaven448]

Why not just use the game mechanics and convert yourself? It's not that hard to do. I did it pretty fats as Ireland and convert myself to Monophysite. Just be patient and wait for the inevitable DLC.

 

[flame7926]

A) I addressed modding on the previous page and was answering a different line of argument altogether, my post was a reply to the post I quoted. Which should be obvious. As a general outline there are 2 issues in this thread: 1) If non-Christians should be playable in the game. 2)How this affects modding.
B) It is not an ad hominem attack, don't be ridiculous. If he, or indeed you, own the game is entirely relevant as it it makes the difference between a customer disappointed with a product he bought and someone picking a fight just for the sake of it. Or, in the case of piracy, it's rather amusing when someone who steals your product accuses you of cutting features so as to sell DLC due to "greed".

Will there be any way in the future to add more playable religious groups?

 

[unmerged(407992)]

A) I addressed modding on the previous page and was answering a different line of argument altogether, my post was a reply to the post I quoted. Which should be obvious. As a general outline there are 2 issues in this thread: 1) If non-Christians should be playable in the game. 2)How this affects modding.
B) It is not an ad hominem attack, don't be ridiculous. If he, or indeed you, own the game is entirely relevant as it it makes the difference between a customer disappointed with a product he bought and someone picking a fight just for the sake of it. Or, in the case of piracy, it's rather amusing when someone who steals your product accuses you of cutting features so as to sell DLC due to "greed".

It appeared to be an ad hominem attack. I never pirated this game, i'm interested in buying it. You are making it look like someone who doesn't have it registered who participates in the debate is a pirate or something. If this wasn't your intention I apologize. Eitherway the only reason I mention modding is because its really the only legitimate debate here.

You are right about making Muslims/Pagans unplayable since thats not the focus of the game but the way you guys did it makes it hard to create things like fantasy mods (with anything more than 1 religion in them). It's not a huge disappointment I just want to express it so maybe in the future we can get that changed.

 

[praguepride]

Muslims and Pagan systems aren't designed for the game. Pagan's especially are terrible. They get super cool levy boosts but can't actually declare war on anyone (no holy wars, no CB claims really).

Muslims are also boosted but not as much as Pagans. They have better realms and better people top-to-bottom which is how they remain competitive against HRE and/or human players. And even then they still get gobbled up faster then you can shake a stick at them.

By 1100 in my game, Lithuania pagans are gone (by me, all hail the mighty Bohemian Empire!) Scandinavian and Russian pagans are down to the last couple. Spain is catholic, North Africa is being gobbled up... it's tough to be a Muslim in Crusader Kings and be "fun"

Not to mention that there aren't any pagan or muslim specific events, you have to re-define the entire religion system. PI's a high quality company, they don't push out half-assed features just to make the fans happy. I'd rather pay $10 and get an awesome DLC that adds a whole new religious structure for Muslims & Pagans then save the money and get "Muslim Pope declares a Jihad against Italy" event.

 

[unmerged(154629)]

Do you even own CK2? I note you have not registered it.

People only register if they need the tech support. Which is why so many people register their paradox products .

 

[3dmadness]

Do you even own CK2? I note you have not registered it.

But would you look at that, if one was to examine my profile you would find I am in fact not a pirate and do in fact have the right to tell you what I think, even if none of you want to hear it.

But even so, at the end of the day even a pirate would feel robbed.

 

[s1234567890m]

But would you look at that, if one was to examine my profile you would find I am in fact not a pirate and do in fact have the right to tell you what I think, even if none of you want to hear it.

But even so, at the end of the day even a pirate would feel robbed.

How so they would crack the exe....

 

[flame7926]

But would you look at that, if one was to examine my profile you would find I am in fact not a pirate and do in fact have the right to tell you what I think, even if none of you want to hear it.

But even so, at the end of the day even a pirate would feel robbed.

People feel robbed when something they expected and were told was going to be avaliable isnt. Thats not the case here, as if you had been paying any attention at all during development, or had read the game description, you would no be expecting to play pagans or muslims.

 

[rpstrategist]

No, it's always been said you can only play Christian nobles. What people finds baffling is there's a game called "Crusader Kings 2" which is advertised with the line "Take on the role of a Christian noble and carry them through the ages from Count to Emperor via the line of succession" and then you get angry when you find you can only play as a Christian noble. Whatever gave you the idea you'd be able to play non-Christians? The quoted line is on our web page, on the game's box, on the Steam store page etc. At no point have we ever said you could play as a non-Christian noble. On a similar note, if you bought a game called "Kings of Scotland and England - A game in which you can only play the aforementioned Kings!" people would be pretty confused if you turned up on the forum to complain you can't play the French. If you just buy random games and then get upset when they don't have the features you imagined they might have you have no one to blame but yourself.

Do you even own CK2? I note you have not registered it.

Not only that, but if i remember correctly then in "Lords of the Realm" series (to name some) you could also play as christian noble ONLY and no-one complained about that. Actually it was even more limited: you couldn't even play on the whole Europe-Middle-East-North-African map, game didn't span centuries and through dynasty either etc.

Maybe one day when we have computers at home like NASA has in their "labs", games can be developed and played that simulate the entire planet from the first life forms up to predictable/plausible future. But before that happens, i won't ask for playable muslims. Possibly make other humble suggestions/requests that arise during modding though.

 

[Robert Wyatt]

For me there is one single issue, the fact modders can't "unlock" other religions for their projects.

Whether you can play as Muslims/Pagans in the vanilla title shouldn't even be up for debate, its been clear for months that it was NEVER going to be the case upon release so complaining about it ad nauseum is ignoring the real issue in that it can't even be unlocked via file editing for modifications which as far as I am concerned you play at risk of it "breaking" something in game as it isn't an official product anyway.

If these nine pages was purely "will you change this for modders?" it'd be fine, but the rather absurd attacks in-between take attention away from a genuine concern. Complaining about the "dawn of DLCs" is a waste of time, ultimately Paradox are here to make money out of us, we as customers can easily just decline to pay for their extra content if we dislike it so much. Whilst I do not think the crew do not care about their products etc, ultimately they're doing it for cash just like all of us do in our own jobs and they shouldn't be criticised for utilising methods to maximise profits for the future health of a company which relies on our cash to finance the games we all love so much.

 

[Wowwars]

hard coded games are the reason why they die 2 years later. fully modable games live for along long time (wc3)- 100,000+ users online perday just to play custom games & join Clans (hence why steam is still alive as well). Even Total war series were modded into very nice things (TATW)

 

[Belty]

I was under the belief we could bug ourself into muslim or pagan play. There was a bug or exploit within the demo that allowed you to play any faction.

 

[Darkrenown]

You are right about making Muslims/Pagans unplayable since thats not the focus of the game but the way you guys did it makes it hard to create things like fantasy mods (with anything more than 1 religion in them). It's not a huge disappointment I just want to express it so maybe in the future we can get that changed.

Did you read my post #156 on the last page? You certainly can add religions to the Christian group, it's extra religion groups you cannot add, and I said I wasn't sure that was intended. Now I could be wrong, and at the end of the day we have never promised every possible aspect of our games would be moddable, but that wasn't the impression I got the last time I spoke to Doomdark about modding CK. He's keen on the Game of Thrones mod, for example.

But would you look at that, if one was to examine my profile you would find I am in fact not a pirate and do in fact have the right to tell you what I think, even if none of you want to hear it.

But even so, at the end of the day even a pirate would feel robbed.

Great. Of course you don't give any reason why you should feel robbed over the lack of a feature we explicitly said would not be contained in the game.

 

[James The 1st]

hard coded games are the reason why they die 2 years later. fully modable games live for along long time (wc3)- 100,000+ users online perday just to play custom games & join Clans (hence why steam is still alive as well). Even Total war series were modded into very nice things (TATW)

Don't panic people, it's not like Paradox is hard coding everything. They hard code one thing and everyone is like, "omg, the era of modding Paradox games is over!"