Under the Rising Sun, a Japan Interactive AAR

[liefwarrior]

((Just to make sure this is what the amended proposal would look like))

天皇契約を保存します

Ten'nōkeiyaku o hozonshimasu

Save the Emperor Agreement


I: The traitors Asahi Daika and Seita will be publicly executed.

~A: Any person/s, regardless of rank, found to be assisting them in any way will be executed.

~ B: Any person/s of the lower class that refuses to assist in this endavour will be executed.

II: Any person/s, regardless of rank, who is thought to be sympathetic to Seita's ideals will be arrested.

~A: If said person/s fails to prove their innocence they will be executed.

~B: If said person/s proves their innocence they will be freed and compensated.

~C: Trails will be held in Kyoto with the Emperor, or his representative, as judge.

III: People who wish to visit Nagasaki must request permission from the Emperor, or one of his officials. If their request is granted they will be issued a "visa"; a document which grants them access to Nagasaki.

~A: They must show this document to any official who requests to see it.

~B: The document can be used as evidence in the trails under Clause II.

~C: A permanent record of those, of high rank (samurai and above), who have requested access will be held in Kyoto.

IV: The following will be classed in a political ideology know as: 共和主義 Kyōwashugi. All symbols associated with said ideology will be banned.

~A: Ousting the Emperor, or claiming that he is in fact not our divine ruler.

~B: Giving women the rights of men.

~C: Allowing Nanban free reign in Nippon.
​

 

[liefwarrior]

Well, all of those "peasants" have lives, and are not simply toys you dispose of at an instance.

Japan is a mighty nation, but with a horrible system of government and terrible policies, we will get nowhere. I also declare myself a ronin, as I refuse to bend my knee to any daimyo of Japan.

((I thought you'd left for Mao?))

 

[zenphoenix]

Why did we remove "ousting the Emperor" from Kyowashugi? Wasn't the point of Kyowashugu to oust the Emperor and replace him with a republic?

 

[LoggingOut]

((private: Yoshito (liefwarrior)))

I found interesting the part of the 将軍 Shogun no longer be hereditary, the 幕府 Bakafu and the Roju's powers. Do you want to write an act or a reform about that?

-- Takeshi Ohba, Daimyo of Yamagata

 

[zenphoenix]

((private: Yoshito (liefwarrior)))

You brought up good points in your response to my proposal. I'm not sure if your revised "Save the Emperor" agreement would work out. Maybe we could work out another agreement on the topic of プロイセン's form of government and what we could learn from them. I'm sure it will be a great compromise.

~Sakamoto

 

[EmperorBasilius]

((Private: EB/Lord Nishimura))

Lord Nishimura,

I fear that I cannot support your proposed "Law of Cultural and Imperial Conservation" on the grounds that I fear no Nanban will be able to come to grips with the beauty and complexity of the Japanese tongue given three years of full-time study and immersion, let alone three months. Furthermore, the second clause of the first article of your proposed law may have some adverse consequences to some of the Emperor's native Japanese subjects. Say for instance, that your proposed Association of the Japanese Language announces that the Edo dialect is to be the "official language" of Japan: if an old man from Kyushu, who has worked in his fields all his life and understands nothing but the Kyushu dialect, were to be heard speaking the Kyushu dialect, then he technically could be deported from the only home he has ever known on the grounds that he does not understand "Japanese." Such an occurrence would be monstrous, of that there is no doubt.

I strongly recommend that Clause II of Article One of your proposed law be removed, or at least significantly modified, to avoid such unfortunate circumstances occurring should your otherwise meritous proposal become law.

-- Hosokawa-dono, Lord of Higo and Roju of Kyushu

Lord Hosokawa,

I wish to clarify the purpose of said clause in said article in said law proposal:
The reasoning behind this is to avoid what I call "passive colonization". I wish to prevent a possible case where there would be nanban permanently residing in Japan with ignorance to our culture. This law ensures that the foreign merchants who come here will stay only temporarily. However I agree that the period of time for unlimited residence can be changed.

Regarding the clauses I. and III.:
Do not forget, honourable lord, that I myself am from Kyushu and I am familiar with its dialect. The law dictates that "Japanese" is the official language, without preference to dialect. I am sure the Association of Japanese Language will deal with and develop all the Japanese dialects.

((woops; just Article 3; as I do not believe that his proposal covers the full extent of Article 4 rather I would remove Clause A of Article 4.))

Lord Yoshito,

I am delighted to see that the you had the wisdom to remove the article regarding the "Nagasaki visas".

Regarding your law proposal:
Providing my law passes, Article I is irrelevant because those Samurai would already be dealt with according to my Article Two.
Article II is represented in the Article Two of my law proposal.
Also, I think clauses B and C in Article IV are ill-formulated.

I hope you would support my law, as it essentially covers what yours tried to convey.
However, if you insist on getting your law passed, though it is unnecessary, I would suggest you to edit it and formulate it differently.


~ 大名西村浩、福岡藩の主 Daimyo Nishimura Hiroshi, Lord of the Fukuoka Domain

 

[liefwarrior]

Is this a more suitable article?

IV: The following will be classed in a political ideology know as: 共和主義 Kyōwashugi. All acts, symbols, etc. associated with said ideology will be banned.
~A: Ousting the Emperor, or claiming that he is in fact not our divine ruler
~B: Placing women in any sort of power other then over other women.
~C: Allowing Nanban to dismiss Japanese Law and do as they wish in Japan.

~ Yoshito; Elder Fureno, Lord Shizuoka

 

[zenphoenix]

I'll go along with that.

 

[liefwarrior]

In response to your opinion on Article One, I believe that the clauses of my article would not just remove the perpetrators but also the sympathisers.

As to Article 2; I once more find your alternative displeasing. My Article allows for the investigation of any person for even a small suspicion. It also includes those who do not support the removal of the Emperor who still wish for mire power to go ti the masses. Thus mine is a superior Article for that putpose.

Your friend in these dark times
~ Yoshito; Elder Fureno & Lord Shizuoka

 

[Qwerty7]

Well, all of those "peasants" have lives, and are not simply toys you dispose of at an instance.

Are you serious? Are you suggesting that we allow everything that posses your idea of a "life" to vote? That we should allow the smallest fish in the smallest river to decide the fate of Nippon? These peasants can not even read or write yet you think they should decide who rules? It appears you are trying to imply that you speak for the peasants and that they want to vote because you have some ridiculous idea that everyone is being oppressed by simply maintaining their role in society and making Nippon safer and stronger. Nonsense!

- Mori Takachika, Kyoto Shoshidai and Daimyo of Chosue Domain

 

[Artistove]

Are you serious? Are you suggesting that we allow everything that posses your idea of a "life" to vote? That we should allow the smallest fish in the smallest river to decide the fate of Nippon? These peasants can not even read or write yet you think they should decide who rules? It appears you are trying to imply that you speak for the peasants and that they want to vote because you have some ridiculous idea that everyone is being oppressed by simply maintaining their role in society and making Nippon safer and stronger. Nonsense!

Maybe if someone actually took the time to educate the peasants of Japan rather than ignoring their desperate pleas for learning, then you'd understand why the peasants want to vote in this system of government one way or another.

Besides, Japan's traditionalist roles are ridiculous, considering the only role I agree with is for women. Peasants are just as noble as the noblemen in the court of the Shogun, maybe even more due to how corrupted the noblemen are.

((Also, can samurai form factions? ))

 

[mrlifeless]

Kishiwada Aito is practising his swordmanship, having lost track of the discussion hours ago.
((What is going on? There are just to many posts!))

 

[Nax24]

((Two things in the Daimyo Council, both being used to enforce Japanese Isolationism and trying to make it so slandering the Emperor is treason. Sounds awfully confusing. Anyway, 4.5 hours left in the vote, make sure you guys vote

Also, talk about IC surge . Lets try and control this now. I assume that Art is now a Ronin and exiled, and that you guys are deciding on two bills. I would appreciate it if you guys post a final copy of the bill you want the Daimyo Council to vote on, just for my sake.))

 

[Artistove]

(Two things in the Daimyo Council, both being used to enforce Japanese Isolationism and trying to make it so slandering the Emperor is treason. Sounds awfully confusing. Anyway, 4.5 hours left in the vote, make sure you guys vote

Also, talk about IC surge . Lets try and control this now. I assume that Art is now a Ronin and exiled, and that you guys are deciding on two bills. I would appreciate it if you guys post a final copy of the bill you want the Daimyo Council to vote on, just for my sake.))

((So, does that mean my original character's basically "dead", and I can make a new one?))

 

[LordTempest]

As things stand, I have no issue with Lord Nishimura's draft apart from the clauses pertaining to language. Firstly, I have no issue with Nanban residing in Japan for any period of time provided that they abide by Japanese laws at all times. Japanese culture survived the coming of Buddhism, and the Sinification which occurred as a result of further exchanges with the Tang Dynasty; it will no doubt survive the second coming of the Nanban as it survived the first. We should no doubt encourage those Nanban resident in Japan to learn Japanese, but when there are so many Japanese who are still illiterate... I can't see this as being a priority. In all honesty, I would prefer to have no language requirement, as this would avoid the farce of Japanese people (if not the men of Kyushu, then what about those of Ryukyu or Ezo?) being exiled because they do not adequately speak Japanese - I'm certainly open to some revision of that clause.

As to the Lord of Shizuoka's proposals, I will oppose any law which implies that Tomoe Gozen is a traitor equal to the likes of one who wish to depose the emperor; the latter is at least high treason, the former most certainly is not. I support the right of Nanban traders and other foreigners to move freely throughout Japan as any Japanese would likewise do in the Nanban's lands - that is fair. However I agree with Lord Fureno's insistence that Nanban in Japan are subject to the laws of Japan, just as a Japanese man in a foreign country would be subject to the laws of that country, according to the Nanban - that is equally fair.

-- Hosokawa-dono, Lord of Higo and Roju of Kyushu

 

[EmperorBasilius]

((As I won't be active until after the vote, and I wish to make further adjustments
I wish to not have a vote on my Law of Cultural and Imperial Conservation this session
making lifewarriors law the only one being voted on after this update))

 

[LordTempest]

((I personally would prefer if we only voted on one law, as both are very similar and deal with the same basic issue.))

 

[EmperorBasilius]

((That's right. There should have been a discussion here or ion IRC beforehand in order to create a common proposal.))

 

[Nax24]

((So, does that mean my original character's basically "dead", and I can make a new one?))

((He is still alive, just not in the country. He can come back anytime he wants, just expect his life expectancy to drop))

((That's right. There should have been a discussion here or ion IRC beforehand in order to create a common proposal.))

((This, please come on IRC if you can, it saves us a lot of conversation and unwanted IC/OOC))

 

[LordTempest]

((That's right. There should have been a discussion here or ion IRC beforehand in order to create a common proposal.))

((Nah, this is an IC issue so we should have discussions in IC))