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Had a hellish week = no or little time to post or do an AAR.Aladar said:Posted seems to have died in our thread
I can play the first two hours though,Absolut said:Night shift today.
Too bad you cant make it.
no luck with subs yet so perhaps we need to idle Spain after i leave.
It's likely that we need even more subs, so i appreciate all help here
Fun session! Austria finally teched a little. The treasury is high too and Eugen just spawned .
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Indeed, it was a very fun session, although Im sure some may disagree.
France has now proven that Spain is no match and that Venice could be beaten with some help.
France has now proven that Spain is no match and that Venice could be beaten with some help.
OE still has some teeth too. They put up some tough resistance to the russian hordes. May have to claim DOF soon
The sultan has to say he finds the recent behaviour of the tsar rather irritating. If he doesn't want to make an lasting enemy he should better refrain from further aggression.
My apologies to Fred; losing three provs is not an ideal way to sub.
BUT, in my defense, I should point out that Venice did little to help out the situation. Of course, that's because Spain was supposed to take France of the Doge's back and allow the Doge to defeat the Turks, I am guessing. Well, France DID spend some time on me... :rofl:
And I apologize to Mulli, who TRIED to tell me where I was going wrong right off the bat, but my naval captains simply weren't willing to wait for the Army to board for transport. DUH...
BUT, in my defense, I should point out that Venice did little to help out the situation. Of course, that's because Spain was supposed to take France of the Doge's back and allow the Doge to defeat the Turks, I am guessing. Well, France DID spend some time on me... :rofl:
And I apologize to Mulli, who TRIED to tell me where I was going wrong right off the bat, but my naval captains simply weren't willing to wait for the Army to board for transport. DUH...
Fun session. I retrospect, I might have been able to take Kurland from the swedes and keep it...but how I felt just then 100 gold was acceptable to pay for peace...perhaps it is "Phoenix rising"?
DSYoungEsq said:My apologies to Fred; losing three provs is not an ideal way to sub.
BUT, in my defense, I should point out that Venice did little to help out the situation. Of course, that's because Spain was supposed to take France of the Doge's back and allow the Doge to defeat the Turks, I am guessing. Well, France DID spend some time on me... :rofl:
And I apologize to Mulli, who TRIED to tell me where I was going wrong right off the bat, but my naval captains simply weren't willing to wait for the Army to board for transport. DUH...
Well i'd say i did do some. France was never allowed into Liguria, loosing over 150.000 troops trying, but the OE galley fleet of 1000 sunk my own 450 fleet, and after that it was impossible to defend any isles or Sicily. I had however taken the french CoT in China and all the provinses in Indonesia and was fighting my way down the balkans.
When Spain peaced out the battle was however lost for Venice. I had excepted more from a country 5 times richer than Venice.
Ok, some basic understanding of France v. Spain is needed here, which is based in part on historical happenings, in part upon in game experiences.Aladar said:
When Spain is in possession of a detached set of lowland provinces, and chooses to fight France, she can only be successful if France is prevented from concentrating efforts on Spain and Spain alone. That almost always means that either Austria or England has to be on France's side. This prevents France from slowly strangling the Lowlands into submission, which is, of course, what they did to me. No matter how grandly Don Juan fought (and he was gone fairly quickly, dead by natural expiration), he simply was never going to be able to raise enough troops to maintain his efforts in the north of France against superior numbers.
I suppose a better tactician would have been able to resupply him from the south. But I doubt it would matter.
In the case of the war in question, the Venetians had to move OUT of Liguria, keeping the southern portion of France in serious difficulty. In combination with the southern Spanish troops, this might have diverted enough French soldiers that the Lowlands wasn't so quickly finished off. But as I said, I doubt Venice was ever really intended to challenge France; and I already apologized for not doing what was expected. Frankly, I should have simply stayed pat and not declared war until I had had more time to prepare, etc., but I always feel as a sub that I should execute what the master wants...
About the lowlands, if you had just defended them instead of attacking in to Ile De France and Orleans you wouldnt have lost thousands of soldiers and would have been able to maintain the front a fair bit longer.
The same applies for southern France, if you hadnt sent 50k armies to two provinces and letting the suffer attrition and decrease to 25k each you would have been able to keep me at bay for much longer.
You should just have kept some reinforcements in Spain that could assist your soldiers sieging the provinces and in case I attacked, sent them there.
The same also applies for Africa, you had 3 times the army I had there at start, at least at the border. I could never have taken any province in Africa if you had defended the river there and not letting 2/3 of your army die due to attrition while sieging a province there. The supply amount in my African colonies is around 4-5 for foreign powers which doesnt have MA so putting 30k to siege one prov with minimal fortress is a mistake. Meanwhile I was able to raise a 30k army and beat you back and then take the border provinces.
EDIT: I agree with what you said about Venice and if they had done that, I might not have won the war. I had 70k in southeast France while Venice had 120k and Morosoni, he could easily have beaten me back there.
The same applies for southern France, if you hadnt sent 50k armies to two provinces and letting the suffer attrition and decrease to 25k each you would have been able to keep me at bay for much longer.
You should just have kept some reinforcements in Spain that could assist your soldiers sieging the provinces and in case I attacked, sent them there.
The same also applies for Africa, you had 3 times the army I had there at start, at least at the border. I could never have taken any province in Africa if you had defended the river there and not letting 2/3 of your army die due to attrition while sieging a province there. The supply amount in my African colonies is around 4-5 for foreign powers which doesnt have MA so putting 30k to siege one prov with minimal fortress is a mistake. Meanwhile I was able to raise a 30k army and beat you back and then take the border provinces.
EDIT: I agree with what you said about Venice and if they had done that, I might not have won the war. I had 70k in southeast France while Venice had 120k and Morosoni, he could easily have beaten me back there.
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Lurken,
give me the save via ICQ so i can make stats.
DSYoungEsq,
Thanks for subbing me in so short notice, i appreciate that
give me the save via ICQ so i can make stats.
DSYoungEsq,
Thanks for subbing me in so short notice, i appreciate that
Absolut said:
I could not afford to loose that army, since i would be unable to stop France from invading had it lost a battle. My mp is far lower than either of yours, so i have to choose my battles with care. I did try to advance into France, but the attricion made me pull back.
Yes, would have probably been better for spain to stay defensive against france and try to reinforce Venice in Italy with its large fleet instead.Absolut said:
OTOH if england hadn't been completely incapable of delivering a proper dow against spain things would have been probably turned out even worse for them.
It seems like France and the OE needs to be slapped a bit next session
Luckily, i can play whole next session
Luckily, i can play whole next session
Fredrik82 said:It seems like France and the OE needs to be slapped a bit next session
Luckily, i can play whole next session
It is Spain that deserves a slapping, two times have I been DoWed by them.
But if you feel I have been a naughty boy, go ahead and slap me.
Actually, I did do that, to the best of my ability. But it was hard to be attentive to the need at the right time when I was fighting a four front war.Absolut said:
As for Africa, hell, I didn't even know where I was fighting, because I've not played with the AoD map much, and those were all new provinces to me. When I would go to find them again, didn't know where to look. :rofl:
Finally, as to a defensive war, well, yes, that would have been fine. But frankly, then France would have ignored me and simply pressed against Venice without much worry. Which would hardly have been of much value to Venice.
Probably, the best thing would have been to chase you around in the north after my first victory and just continue beating up on your main army while leaving detachments behind to siege your provinces. That would, however, have required that I spend some time preparing before the DoW, and if I recall correctly, at the point I joined, Venice was in serious trouble at home and I remember thinking I had best get involved fast. My bad.
Lurken said:
Nah, we both did what we had to. You had too much WE to pursue this war without it costing you dearly. You couldn't have crossed into Sweden either. And my leaders had died in various mishaps(one of the rare times I've been this incompetent, dunno what I was onto yesterday), and I wouldn't get a decent warrior before 3-4 years, so I prefered to pack my chips and go home. Shame, hadn't I been so greedy for cheap battle WS, I would have saved Karl XI and won that war most likely. Oh well, you fought well
P.S: Von Aschenburg died to a random bullet mid battle. That's why my first army took so much of a beating and got killed after 2-3 retreat battles. On the other hand, Karl XI died to a bad decision.
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DSYoungEsq said:
I beg to differ with you on that, if you had just kept your armies at the border I couldnt just send all my armies to Venice, then I would leave the whole of France unprotected, so you would have been able to tie my armies up at the borders. That would have been the best thing you could have done for Venice.
Probably, the best thing would have been to chase you around in the north after my first victory and just continue beating up on your main army while leaving detachments behind to siege your provinces. That would, however, have required that I spend some time preparing before the DoW, and if I recall correctly, at the point I joined, Venice was in serious trouble at home and I remember thinking I had best get involved fast. My bad.
That wouldnt have been the best way, IMO. If I were you, I would have kept 20k sieging armies in the border provinces and large armies to back them up in case I attacked. Attacking with your whole army in the north as the way you described it wouldnt have made a big difference as I dont suffer as much attrition in France as you. You would just have ended up with a small force which I could have annihilated, then I would proceed with taking out your sieging forces and that would have been just about as effective as sieging my provs with large armies. I can see you attacked me because Venice was in dire trouble, I never thought Id win that, I had virtually no defences on the borders to Spain. I am quite pleased with that war.