TWBW: A New Hope

[King of Men]

A New Hope

I can no longer continue to play in the same game as BurningEgo, for reasons I won't bother to go into. However, I do like my CK MP, and I've enjoyed playing with everyone else in TWBW. I therefore invite everyone from that game, with the obvious exception, to join me at the same time, with the same save, and continue our game in an atmosphere of mutual respect.

 

[King of Men]

If you don't mind, gents, keep all discussion of unpleasant people outside of this thread.

Anders has informed me that he will join A New Hope.

 

[Lurken]

Just to clarify, as I trust the good judgement of KoM and Anders, and I trust the evalutation that I have made of the sitution. I too will play this game.

For those who wishes to play with a certain character, I am not stopping you. I am just wishing to avoid him and play a game with gentlemen, in a slow game and not zerg across the map.

 

[ulmont]

I would like to play. Unfortunately, my principal CK computer went tits-up yesterday, but I hope to sort that out in the near future.

 

[Lurken]

I would like to play. Unfortunately, my principal CK computer went tits-up yesterday, but I hope to sort that out in the near future.

Sad to hear about your computer, but you are free to join as soon as your computer acts up again. Hope it will be soon.

 

[King of Men]

Heh, well, I certainly sympathise with that after my issues this morning. Hope you can get it fixed, ulmont.

 

[carillon]

Were we to start with a clean slate, might we also say that no Kings may be taken? I would be interested in joining this game, especially if it doesn't play at the same time as the original.

 

[Lurken]

Were we to start with a clean slate, might we also say that no Kings may be taken? I would be interested in joining this game, especially if it doesn't play at the same time as the original.

I think we are going with the existing time slot, 16.00 - 20.00 CET saturdays. But what timeslot would you prefer?

 

[King of Men]

If we were to start over, then yes, we would clearly need to rethink the balance between kings and dukes. My own suggestion, though, is to just use the same save, and not have to abandon all our hard work. You've bled to become HRE, surely you don't want to abandon that? Still and all, I do see the attraction of a clean slate.

For the time, isn't the one we've got a workable compromise for everyone? Even if I do have to get up at 0700.

 

[Lurken]

If we were to start over, then yes, we would clearly need to rethink the balance between kings and dukes. My own suggestion, though, is to just use the same save, and not have to abandon all our hard work. You've bled to become HRE, surely you don't want to abandon that? Still and all, I do see the attraction of a clean slate.

For the time, isn't the one we've got a workable compromise for everyone? Even if I do have to get up at 0700.

Now that is early. However, thouching carillions suggestion, that would eliminate the Leonese Hegemony over the Meditarian, and allow for a more "natural" growth. Maybe as suggested, using dukes only.

 

[King of Men]

Actually I only have to get up at 0700 until I move to Ohio in January, after that it will be 1000.

As for the Leonese hegemony, is it really such a problem? If the kingdom is AI, it will surely break apart, and we could require any human player to kick out a few kingdoms. But if a clean slate is wanted, I guess we can do that, with Dukes only. If so, I trust nobody objects to my taking a Danish one?

 

[carillon]

yes, I did bleed for the King Title (or Emperor if CK did such things ) so it would be hard to start anew. However, I felt that all Kings had a massive advantage over me since the beginning, one need only to look at Leon to see that. The Leonese Empire felt to me more like a single player game with the AI set on easy than the multiplayer combative experience I had expected.

Also, I am a history major, so the difference between ahistorical (ie. the D'Ardennes being crowned Emperor) and the implausible (ie. Muscovy as a vassal of Leon) hurts my sensibilities.

So I guess I would like to restart, using Dukes only. Especially if we get an Italian Duke or two.

Edit: Oh and I guess the game time works, currently I am in Chicago, so I get up at 8.30 for the 9.00 start. For the entire month of December, I will be in San Francisco, meaning that I would have to get up at 6.30 for a 7.00 start. (A reverse KoM almost). Moving the game one hour later would be great for me that being said.

 

[Lurken]

As for the Leonese hegemony, is it really such a problem? If the kingdom is AI, it will surely break apart, and we could require any human player to kick out a few kingdoms. But if a clean slate is wanted, I guess we can do that, with Dukes only. If so, I trust nobody objects to my taking a Danish one?

The problem is that Leon holds a whopping of nine kingtitles 50 years into the game, and AI are quite adept at holding kingtitles, imho.

If we would go with a clean slate, I hope that no one objects if I take a duchy in the croatian area.

 

[FinnN]

Well, as Lurken correctly points out I have some (more than some actually) sympathy for KoMs position. I don't think anyone can say that BEGO's behaviour has been snowy white.

However I've also seen in the last 2 or 3 sessions that the quantity (and temperature) of the bickering and insults has been dropping - unfortunately so has the tolerance. Now in a game if someone calls someone else a liar or a king of pigs I would tend to assume that it's an ingame 'insult' and hence not something to be upset about. This is why I think there are two sides to this.

Now some people would say "well why can't we all just along" and have a group hug and pretend everyone loves each other. I don't subscribe to that point of view when it comes to games tbh, if two people simply can't get along then it's time to have fun separately - and there's nothing wrong whatsoever with that it's just the sensible thing to do.

As today went quite smoothly overall, and to be honest apart from the ill-judged attempt at explaining away the pig references in the forums I didn't see anything that was worth an argument, I'm happy to continue with the original game and the players that stay there. I'm especially uncomfortable with joining a game that's specifically aimed at excluding someone, but as I said at the start of this post I can see why it's happened.

I hope both games can continue side-by-side and not be defined as 'The REAL TWBW - the other lot are FALSE TWBW'. As such I propose that both games be renamed to new names.

All the best - and you can bet I'll be reading your AARs!

Have fun
Finn

 

[Lurken]

Good post Finn. I too hope that we can co-exist side by side in the rather empty CKMP forum. So perhaps, a change of name for our new game isn't all that out of order.

 

[Sid Meier]

You know before you all proceed with this consider how much this ruins my fun, my game? I started the game and now to my view your trying to crush it just when things wer egetting good, we had a rough balance of power by the end of it with a stronger france, and a strong russia.

I am not joining this game when you so casually ruined my game, and as such wasted all my and everyone's elses time with all this bickering. You didn't even consult with me before making this thread or making your posts in the thread. I am severely pissed off.

 

[Lurken]

I think I've picked out what duchy I would like to be, the Duchy of Slavonia.

 

[Varyar]

I have an idea for a game that I'd like to share. I think it's a new kind of approach that means a step away from the SP-like megalomaniac game as well as it strengthens the roleplay aspect.

All players starts as Counts, or one-title Dukes, within one kingdom. Possibly several kingdoms, but the important thing is that the kingdom is rather "filled". The basic rule is that expansion outside the Kingdom is forbidden. If France is played, the borders of the kingdom of France is the limit. The objective for each player will be to:
*expand one's power within the kingdom
*compete for the royal crown
*cooperate to defend the realm against outsiders, as well as to bring down a despot or a player

The basis would be that anything goes (except perhaps assassinations). No abstract rules about vassals etc. One important aspect however would be that of "core territory". The size could be debated, but the concept is that a few provinces within one's primary title is untouchable. They may be used to enforce vassalage, peace deals etc. but they may not be taken under any circumstances by other players.

Then, at some point towards the end, a transition is made to more regular kingship in order to prepare for EU. It could be made in such a way that during the first phase you try to spread your dynasty through marriage etc. so that they may occupy a throne once it's time for transition. Or we simply abandon the kingdom limit rule and go conquering. I'm sure there's a lot of ways to do this.

The main benefits would be that the poaching of AI would be severely limited. Also the tight proximity of many players ought to favour more roleplay and cooperation in general. The added bonus of being able to boss around the others as king is a fun prospect. Limited land and "untouchable" provinces should favour more bold and less long-term planning and action.

As I've written in the other thread, I'm not sure what to do. I'd just like to hear opinions of this idea of mine that I've had for some time.

 

[ulmont]

I think I've picked out what duchy I would like to be, the Duchy of Slavonia.

I'd like Apulia or Munster (yes, there's quite a drop from the one to the other).

 

[King of Men]

I think Apulia, with its very easy path to a kingship, is maybe best avoided. Similarly for Normandy and Bohemia, and I guess the Byzantine princes. For myself, I guess I'd like Skane, unless it is the heir of Denmark, I'd better check that. Never paid much attention to the internal affairs of the Knytlings before.

Varyar, your idea is interesting. I'll be happy to play it if a majority of the players want to do so. I must say that my personal preference, though, is a conquest-expansion game like the one we just had.

I would like to say that I did not actually object to the size Leon grew to. In 400 years, anything can happen, including dramatic collapses of large kingdoms, especially with 11 other players just waiting to pounce. So in my opinion, we do not need to take special measures to avoid this sort of expansion.