The Wars of the Roses

[Lord Durham]

Ah, the Captain. Well, well, well. You know, if you play your cards right, LD, I might be willing to give you a guest spot here and there if it works right. We'll see when we get closer. And indeed, as stated, little Eddy is on the way. Thanks for keeping up here and the compliment. I think you are right about hitting the titles and names early as a kind of guide to use during the rest of the post.

Texas Hold-em's my game. But I also have a soft spot for baccarat...

Anyway, I thought I'd brush up on the WotR while waiting for the next update. The family tree is definitely a help.

 

[unmerged(83981)]

very nice aar : )

 

[Hannibal Barca2]

Here you can see my failing attempts to give the names some faces
Couldn't find too many though...

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Cannot believe there is no portrait of the Kingmaker...

 

[coz1]

That's great, Hannibal Barca2! I am honored that you'd spend some time putting that together. Of course, I hope to help place a face with a name through the writing, but every little bit helps. Great!

Oh, and I'm not sure that's actually Richard of York you have there. From what I've read, he actually only has two existent (and supposedly accurate) portraits and/or portrayals - one is a wooden carving and another a stained glass window (I forget where right off the top of my head.) But many suggest his youngest son (and namesake) looked very much like him.

And see how easy it is to mistake one for another - that Richard Neville on the bottom IS the Kingmaker, Kurt_Steiner. The easiest way to remember it is this - the Richard Neville with Richard of York is Salisbury. The Richard Neville with Edward IV is Warwick, thus the Kingmaker. That's a bit too simple, but helps to place them where they need to be.

I'll probably answer the rest of the feedback tomorrow and hopefully have a post ready to go by Sunday (if not a little earlier.)

 

[Hannibal Barca2]

Oh, and I'm not sure that's actually Richard of York you have there.

well... This page claims it is; Richard of York

Checked out on wikipedia, and at the birthdates and biographies seems to match. That man on the picture also married Cecily, and as I doubt the church would accepted to husband, even with same name and life-history, I think that's the rigth man.

Of course, those who put the picture out, MIGTH be wrong.

And also thanks I could put in the others, if someone just could find a picture

EDIT: I liked the stained glass window version better... Have put it in

 

[Wezqu]

well... This page claims it is; Richard of York

Checked out on wikipedia, and at the birthdates and biographies seems to match. That man on the picture also married Cecily, and as I doubt the church would accepted to husband, even with same name and life-history, I think that's the rigth man.

Of course, those who put the picture out, MIGTH be wrong.

And also thanks I could put in the others, if someone just could find a picture

I found a picture of Cicely Neville. Just scroll down until her name pops up and there is a picture small but still a picture.
House of York

 

[Hannibal Barca2]

I found a picture of Cicely Neville. Just scroll down until her name pops up and there is a picture small but still a picture.
House of York

Have put in her as well

 

[VILenin]

I see this is your usual par excellence, coz1. Hopefully I can keep up with this one.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

I'll simply say: D'oh... Too many Richard Nevilles, methinks...

 

[unmerged(10971)]

I'll simply say: D'oh... Too many Richard Nevilles, methinks...

Henry VI* and Edward IV said the same thing at different times... although their complaint was that one Richard Neville was too many.

*Well, his wife probably said it for him, since he wasn't in much of a position by that point to say anything...

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Henry VI* and Edward IV said the same thing at different times... although their complaint was that one Richard Neville was too many.

*Well, his wife probably said it for him, since he wasn't in much of a position by that point to say anything...

Until Edward and Richard put a remedy to it

*

 

[coz1]

More fb-fb:

A great AAR deserves a great reception, my friend. Just keep on doing so finely.

So very kind of you to say, KS! I will certainly try.

Thank you for the family tree - so many people of the same name (and often title) can make this period confusing.

Indeed it can. Look to the bottom of this fb-fb for more news on that.

I'll have to start keeping track of which titles go with which names, because as RossN (and others) says, it is confusing, although I made a rather major mistake in names in RossN's Russian AAR recently.

I am going to try and add titles with names as much as I can to do my best to keep them clear. I certainly understand how difficult it is.

Texas Hold-em's my game. But I also have a soft spot for baccarat...

Anyway, I thought I'd brush up on the WotR while waiting for the next update. The family tree is definitely a help.

Hey - mine too! Love it. If we ever get together with a crowd for milk and cookies, we should get up a game. And again, look to the end of this fb-fb.

very nice aar : )

Wow, Mark! Thanks so much and especially for making your first post in this AAR. That is always a special bonus. Welcome to the forums - officially that is.

Here you can see my failing attempts to give the names some faces
Couldn't find too many though...

Again, HB, thanks so much for doing that. It is an honor and certainly a help.

well... This page claims it is; Richard of York

Checked out on wikipedia, and at the birthdates and biographies seems to match. That man on the picture also married Cecily, and as I doubt the church would accepted to husband, even with same name and life-history, I think that's the rigth man.

Of course, those who put the picture out, MIGTH be wrong.

And also thanks. I could put in the others, if someone just could find a picture

EDIT: I liked the stained glass window version better... Have put it in

I did see that site, but I am still not completely convinced it is the same. The stained glass window is actually the third picture on that site (and I think the fourth pic is the wood carving - should show a forked beard though it is difficult to see.) The third shows him wearing his famous collar of gold which he was forced to pawn to John Falstaf of all people.

I found a picture of Cicely Neville. Just scroll down until her name pops up and there is a picture small but still a picture.
House of York

Great site, by the way. Very informative to help keep track of the whole clan. Thanks for stopping by.

I see this is your usual par excellence, coz1. Hopefully I can keep up with this one.

Very kind of you to say, VI. I need to get over to CK more and keep current with all the great work being done there. Will soon, I promise.

I'll simply say: D'oh... Too many Richard Nevilles, methinks...

Indeed.

Henry VI* and Edward IV said the same thing at different times... although their complaint was that one Richard Neville was too many.

*Well, his wife probably said it for him, since he wasn't in much of a position by that point to say anything...

Well, Eddy did utilize him effectively at first...until Warwick developed delusions of grandeur.

Until Edward and Richard put a remedy to it

To be sure, the elder Neville was a great friend of the family. He did end up with his head atop the walls of York just like Richard of York and his 2nd son Edmund (grisly story there.) But indeed, Warwick the Kingmaker pretty much signed his own death warrant and the York boys certainly did put a stop to all that nonsense.


To all - I spent some time this morning putting together some rather simple family trees to help us out as we get going. You can find them here . I've also linked to them in the Contents section that has a link in the first post. I'll try and keep them current as well as putting up some more as we move forward. If there is anyone you think needs adding (and for that matter, someone you'd like to see in this AAR) I'll try and assist if it works for the story and all else. If anything, I hope it is a help.

Thanks once more for all the great comments. I really appreciate it. I plan on spending a goodly portion of the day working on the next post which is ready to go in mind. I'd like to get that up tomorrow if possible. Until then...

 

[Woody Man]

Thanks for the trees Coz1, makes things lot clearer, looking forward to the next update

 

[unmerged(24320)]

coz1: ...I am still rather blown away by the great reception this has received!...

magnificent work deserves magnificent reception ! !

 

[coz1]

Some quick fb-fb and then an update...

Thanks for the trees Coz1, makes things lot clearer, looking forward to the next update

Wonderful. I am glad there are a help. And a post is coming up.

coz1: ...I am still rather blown away by the great reception this has received!...

magnificent work deserves magnificent reception ! !

That is very kind of you to say, GW! I am thankful for it, definitely.


To all - another update follows and I'd like to say that the portion with the letter was greatly assisted by our own stnylan! He has helped me re-write it to make it appear more authentic and I am extremely grateful for such help. Not only do I owe him a debt of gratitude but also a share of the credit as a good portion of the words in the letter are his and not mine. It would be wrong of me to claim credit for it. Thanks Lewis!

Update coming up once formatting and all else is complete. Thanks again for all the great comments!

 

[coz1]

* * *

Wimborne, Dorset, 1444​

John Beaufort, newly named Duke of Somerset in the previous year, sat by a crackling fire in a room above The Pudding and Pye Tavern and Inn. His life had been one of meteoric rise and swift fall, as it had been with all the Beauforts. Yet his seemed the most shameful, at least to his mind. A veteran of countless battles with the French during the Hundred Years War and a prime mover of the Beaufort faction at court, this man who was once among the premier princes of the blood was now shamed, banished from court and ready for the beyond such was his great personal defeat.

The King offered him a second chance after his first commission in France. And it had proved the great favor Henry held for his cousins and uncles, even more so than the favor that might be held by the Beaufort rivals – Gloucester and York. But in such a short time he had wasted this and now, it seemed, his own life. The dishonor and humiliation he felt was more than he could bear and John Beaufort was seriously considering ending his life with the only dignity he had left – that it came by his own hand and not that of an enemy. Sinful, yes…but at least satisfaction of a kind.

Still, he was not sure. He sat by the fire that warmed an already hot room this early summer’s eve and pondered his life’s work…or the lack of such. How had it come to this? How had he let down his name and blood so quickly? Was it the temper? The secretive nature? The sure pride? He picked up a tankard of ale and drank it down to perhaps speed the contrition. It was all too much.

He picked up a piece of parchment on which he had written an accounting of sorts and began to read with a half-hearted sense of necessity,

To His Most Gracious Majesty, Henry King of England and France, Lord of Ireland, the sixth of that name since the Conquest,

I cannot begin to explain the many divers ways I have brought shame on my house and dishonoured the service you entrusted to me. This tale shall see my name damned among men, but I hope through my honesty your Grace will continue to be able to hold my family in the good odour in which they have previously stood, as the sins which I will presently recount are entirely mine own.

From the moment of my release in France in those glorious days of 1438 I only desired to serve your gracious self, and thus bring honour to my family and to England. Thus, though I writhed with doubt when you appointed our cousin York I stayed my voice, as it was not my place to question the favour that you choose to bestow upon him. Even though I feared that he sought to use you with ill-counsel I kept my peace, and waited for your command. I set this all aside out of my love for you.

Presently you considered me fit to lead an army, and thinking perhaps to link up with York I landed at Cherbourg in the earnest hope to become a shield in betwixt he and our adversaries. I in no way wished to do anything that might prejudice in any wise the power my cousin of York hath between your great royal person and his own in the country of France, Normandy nor either England.

Yet, despite all my hopes, wicked men surrounded our cousin and spoke evil things in his ears, and so his mind was poisoned against me. Thus he would have nothing to do with me, and I was forced to march my army out alone. My commission, as your Grace well knows, was to fortify the regions of Guyenne and Gascony and hold them against your Grace's enemies. However, I had before me the great hope that I could strike a telling blow in your service, and force the French usurper to contend with two fine armies from England, mine own and cousin York's.

At first all went well as we went on a chevauchée throughout the countryside, as our house and even Sir John Fastolf, friend to your father, has always suggested might be well used. But a hammer without anvil cannot strike true, and our foes escaped into Brittany, forcing me to follow. Fully recognisant that the Duke is numbered among our allies God in Heaven knows that I had no intention of sundering the good friendship between your august selves. Rather, I sought to protect his own lands from our common enemies. Thus entangled I was unable to continue further south as directed by my commission, and much to my great shame.

It is this disgrace which brings me home and I am sure it is the reason why I have been banished from your Presence. I humbly beseech that you forgive me, your humble servant, as the father forgave the wayward son, and invited him back into his house. If your Majesty finds myself offensive I at least beg that you have mercy on my family, for they are innocent in all of this. If you require me to quit the kingdom I will go as you direct, or if you have some other penance I will gladly do it to expiate my shame. At the last all that I did was strive to serve Your Majesty, to whom my heart is always pledged whatsoever you decide regarding my present fate.

In all honor and with your love and favor still my wish,
John, Duke of Somerset and Earl of Kendal, son of Earl Somerset, Beaufort child of John of Gaunt.​

It was all so much rubbish and too much to tell. John Beaufort, the first named Duke of Somerset, picked up the parchment and lifted his body as best he could from his seat to shift towards the fire and catch a corner with the flame. The written apology, that he had penned with his own hand such was his extreme secrecy, began to flare and he held it such that it soon became engulfed. As it burned away he felt his life following along and yet still the knife beckoned. He turned to see it smiling with a shine towards him. He thought on it and realized he was still not ready.

A knock at the door to his room pulled him from his torpor and he was secretly thankful for such a thing. He hollered with what little strength he had, his guilt and the drink having taken from him much, “Yes!”

The door opened with slowness and a face appeared with a look of curiosity and no little amount of worry. Edmund Beaufort, Earl of Dorset and younger brother to John entered the room and found his family member in his cups. He slowly made his way past the clothes dropped haphazardly on the floor and other bits of furniture overturned. He saw the look on John’s face and with a sadness found a way to ask, “What is all this?”

John Beaufort raised his head and looked upon Edmund with sad eyes and a long face, “What is it? None but my failure!”

Edmund went to him and tried to help him from the chair where he had once more found solace. “Rise and lets us walk to the bed, John. There are other days to look upon the past and find what has gone to failure.”

John pulled away from him with some strength that was surprising to the both of them and stumbled across the room only to fall against the wall. As he slumped to the floor, he looked up and spied a distressed and surely disappointed face, “I have failed, yes! I have dishonored my house and myself! And what is more, my career is over! My life, such as it was my brother, is done!”

“Speak not on such…not now…again, let us see what light the morn has to show us…”

“No! I’ll not see another day if this is what is has become.” John lifted himself from the floor and dragged a leg towards the table once more to take in another tankard of ale.

Edmund took a step towards his brother but John pushed him away, “Do not attempt to stop me, brother. It is finished.”

Edmund then stepped back and sat upon the bed, at first placing his head in his hands and then looking back to his kin, “Can you…would you tell me what has brought this on?”

“You know very well, Edmund! Do not make me feel the shame twice over,” John spit back.

“I do not wish to extend your dishonor, but I know not of the truth. Tell me and perhaps we may find a way to bring you back to court…or at least not sully further your good name.”

“There is no way, and you know I’d not tell. I cannot.” John slumped again in his chair as he reached for the tankard but gave up as his hand wavered in the air.

“Brother, I know that you would rather set fire to your own shirt that to have it know of your innermost thoughts, but now is not the time for such secrecy. You must tell me!”

“I’ll not and it is best that you leave me now.” He looked to Edmund and with a great sadness in his eyes followed, “But…I am sorry.”

“What is this apology?” Edmund stood and walked halfway to John.

“Edmund…” John finally found the fortitude to grasp at his ale, “We have always been second best…bastards! It is only by our efforts that we shall ever make something of our name…only by serving the crown with as much as we have to offer…”

“And we have always done so.” Edmund quickly reminded his brother.

“But not I.” John took a long swig and slammed the cup down. “I have shamed us and mine own name irrevocably. And this is the end.”

The younger brother stayed still and said not a word. He took a quick look to the door and then back to his sibling as John continued, “Even our uncle was forced to wait until good King Henry had died to gain his Cardinal’s hat. We shall always be forced to work twice as much for our due and I have set us back…I have ruined our good name, such as it ever was.”

Edmund shifted on his feet and began to walk ever so slowly towards the door, “Once more, John…let us not dwell on such tonight. You know I understand. But little good does it to speak on it right this moment.” Edmund was nearly to the door and turned to leave the room as he held a hand in the air, “Allow me to prepare some small tincture that might assist in your sleep. It would do you good.”

“I’ve plenty to help in my long slumber, brother…”

“Speak not on such a thing!” Edmund turned back and answered his brother. “Be still and wait just one moment…”

As his brother walked from the room, John attempted another half-hearted reach for his ale but gave up yet again. He slumped his body back into the chair and nearly fell out such was his inebriation. What took minutes seemed like seconds to him and Edmund was back with a tall cup of steaming drink.

“Here, let me help you stand,” Edmund said as he placed the cup down and wrapped his arm around his brother.

They stumbled together towards the bed, John allowing him to lead, and Edmund attempting some small words of compassion, “Lay still and wait for me.”

Edmund helped him into the bed and then found the foaming cup once more. Taking it to his brother, he stopped just short of the bed and watched the sad figure as it lay prone, nearly asleep already.

“Here,” he stated as he knelt down and helped lift John’s head, “Drink of this and dream the glorious dreams that long sleep gives us. You shall feel better for it in the morn.”

As John drank from the cup, spilling some but not much, he found a pleasant face all of the sudden.

“You are a good brother,” He suddenly whispered as he laid his head upon the slight pillow.

With a grimace and perhaps a small tear, Edmund attempted an answer, “Less than I should be…”

Barely audible, John continued, "You will look after little Margaret..."

His eyes closed and with a slight smile upon his face for the first time that night, John repeated, “…A good brother…yes…”

And he was out. Edmund stood and looked at him for a time, a full tear just slight on his face but he steeled himself and wiped it away quickly. He made haste to take the empty cup with him and exited the room making sure to close the door behind him.

As he moved into the hall, he heard another voice from the darkness of the hallway, “It is done?”

Without turning, Edmund Beaufort stopped short in his steps and replied, “Quite. And I shall hate you for it forever.”

The voice had but one answer for him, “For now, my Lord…Duke.”

Edmund turned to face the apparition but it was gone in the shadows once more. He threw the cup towards where the voice had come from but the only reply he received was the sound of breaking pottery.

“Damnable man!”

But Edmund Beaufort knew what it all meant. He knew it before he had entered the room. And now his star was sure to rise. His sin would too, but that could wait until his own death. Edmund crossed himself quickly and descended the stairs of the tavern and out into the night doing his best to hold back the tears. It would take years, but eventually he would get over the death of his brother. He must if he was to make of his name what it deserved. But even he could not shake the feeling…Damn that Suffolk!

 

[Lord E]

Forced to kill his own brother, that is not something any man would want to have to do, still a fine way of describing it coz. A very nice post showing us the realities of English politics at this time. Also the letter is very well done. Great work by stnylan and you.
I wonder where this will take the brother, his star is rising, but this might also come back to hunt him I think. Shall be interesting to see how all this develops, and also what will happen when the result of York and his wife’s little meting comes to life.

Looking forward to more from this great tale coz

 

[J. Passepartout]

Either this is going to come back to haunt Edmund ad Lord E says or he will be as much a traitor to Suffolk as he was to his brother. Or both.

 

[Hannibal Barca2]

At first all went well as we went on a chevauchée throughout the countryside, as our house and even Sir John Fastolf, friend to your father, has always suggested might be well used. But a hammer without anvil cannot strike true, and our foes escaped into Brittany, forcing me to follow. Fully recognisant that the Duke is numbered among our allies God in Heaven knows that I had no intention of sundering the good friendship between your august selves. Rather, I sought to protect his own lands from our common enemies. Thus entangled I was unable to continue further south as directed by my commission, and much to my great shame.

What exactly happened? Did he destroy the alliance with Brittany? Or did they just became angry

And the acts and name of Edmund keeps me think; Black Adder