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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Methone

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Currently there is a Fallen Empire for half of the game's ethics: Xenophobe-Xenophile, Spiritualist-Materialist, and Machine Intelligence for half of the Gestalts.

Martin Anward at one point said he'd have liked to make FE for the rest of the ethics. These are my ideas of what those FE would look like:
Rigid Despots - This Fallen Empire dedicates itself to maintaining their rigid slave society. Liberating their servant population is likely to draw their ire.
The FE's worlds use a second slave species working as Servants for Amenities, like the Xenophobes. Unlike the Xenophobes, these slaves are not nervestapled and are pretty miserable.

Homeworld is a size 25 Gaia. One system over they also have a size 20 Gaia Thrall World. The Thrall World is mostly just their slaves, with two special Slave Driver precursor pops that provide immense Stability.
The Fallen Empire's fleets have a balanced mix of Energy and Kinetic weapons. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Giga Cannons.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 4 Large Gauss Cannons
  • 4 Large Plasma Cannons
  • 4 Medium Phase Disruptors
  • 1 Giga Cannon
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 2 Large Gauss Cannons
  • 4 Medium Gamma Lasers
  • 1 Neutron Launcher
  • 4 Stormfire Autocannons
  • 4 Guardian Point Defense
The Fallen Empire uses Slave Armies of their slave population. If they somehow cannot, they instead use Xenomorph Armies.
Their Discipline-class Colossus uses a Neutron Sweep weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is generally calm and does little.
  • GIFTS - They will never give you Gifts, even if they like you.
  • BORDER ACCESS - They will never open their borders, even if they like you.
  • Not the FE itself, but non-Slaver non-Genocidal empires have a chance to be contacted instead by the FE's slaves. A runaway caravan of the FE slaves pleads with you for shelter, having escaped their masters. If you accept, you get 4 incredibly-well gene modded Workers on your homeworld.
  • TASKS - They have no Tasks for anybody.
  • Taking in their runaway Slaves - or indeed, having those pops on your worlds by any means - gives a -200 Opinion for "Servant Thieves". They will demand you return every single one of their pops to their empire. If you refuse, they will declare War to do the same.
Unifying Absolutists - This Awakened Empire seeks to establish a firm hierarchy throughout the galaxy. They are likely to attack any empire that does not take their place in its chain of command.

  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They can be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They can be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Fief - Fiefs must pay 25% of their minerals and energy to their overlord, but are otherwise allowed to go about their business. If they had any subjects of their own before, they keep them and, in fact, are allowed to declare Subjugation Wars on other independent empires.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Despots
  • Capitol
  • Core
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Administrators
  • Supervisors
  • Overseers
Vapid Hedonists- This Fallen Empire dedicates itself to maintaining a high quality of life for its citizens. Keeping citizen species in low standards of living is likely to draw their ire.

This FE is a Democracy rather than Imperial, and is ruled by a President.
Homeworld is a size 25 Gaia. One system over is a Black Hole system with a size 20 Gaia world orbiting it. The Gaia world is a Resort World filled with buildings that give massive empire-wide Amenities, as this FE has no slaves of any kind.
The Fallen Empire's fleets have mostly piercing weapons. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Focused Arc Emitters.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 8 Cloud Lightning
  • 4 Medium Phase Disruptors
  • 1 Focused Arc Emitter
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 2 Cloud Lightning
  • 4 Medium Phase Disruptors
  • 1 Cloud Lightning
  • 4 Small Phase Disruptors
  • 4 Guardian Point Defense
The Fallen Empire uses Gene Warriors.
Their Utopia-class Colossus uses a Neutron Sweep weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is slightly active.

  • GIFTS - If they like you, they can give gifts.
  • BORDER ACCESS - If they like you, they can open their borders.
  • They may request a Level 5+ Governor for their worlds.
  • They may task an Empire with Decent Living Standards or better to declare war on their Rivals who have worse than Decent Living Standards, with a special CB to raise living standards for all their species.
  • They will only demand your Humiliation if you anger them.
Consumerist Liberators - This Awakened Empire seeks to enforce their high standards of living on other empires. They are likely to attack anyone that does not authorize excessive consumer goods consumption.

  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They can be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They CANNOT be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Client- Clients cannot declare war except for Independence, but will be protected by the AE if they should be attacked. If they are not a Gestalt Consciousness, ALL species must have Utopian Abundance. Even if you're not Egalitarian. Even if they are being purged.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Hedonists
  • Consumers
  • Syarites
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Uplifters
  • Liberators
  • Speakers
Barbaric Enthusiasts- This Fallen Empire devotes itself to observing the struggles of the lesser races. Ending wars in unsatisfying ways may draw their ire.
The FE's worlds use Synthetics without AI, working as Servants, to produce Amenities.

Their home system has two Size 20 Gaia worlds.
The Fallen Empire's fleets use Kinetic Weapons. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Giga Cannons.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 8 Kinetic Artillery
  • 4 Medium Gauss Cannons
  • 1 Giga Cannon
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 2 Kinetic Artillery
  • 4 Medium Gauss Cannons
  • 1 Kinetic Artillery
  • 4 Stormfire Autocannons
  • 4 Flak Artillery
The Fallen Empire uses Robotic armies.
Their Nuclear-class Colossus uses a World Cracker weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is slightly active.

  • GIFTS - If they like you, they can give you gifts.
  • BORDER ACCESS - If they like you, they can open their borders.
  • They may request a Level 5+ Admiral for their worlds.
  • They may task an Empire to declare war, of any kind, to a chosen bordering empire. The selected Empire can be an ally, will never be the FE itself obviously, and will always be at least Superior in power.
  • If you border the FE, and get into war with someone else, and the war ends in a White Peace with no change of territory, the FE will have -200 to you for an Unimpressive War. They will demand Humiliation, and go to war for it if you refuse.
Noble Conquerors - This Awakened Empire seeks to strengthen the galaxy at large. They are likely to attack any empire that will not accept their martial aid.

Once awoken, they have -100 Opinion to any 'Pacifist Cowards'.

  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They can be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They can be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Auxiliary- Auxiliaries gain 20% of the AE's naval capacity for themselves. Auxilliaries CANNOT build new starbases. Auxiliaries can war amongst themselves, but if an outsider declares war on one, the AE will defend them. If the AE gets into a war, every non-rebelling Auxiliary will be expected to help.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Crowd
  • Retirees
  • Admirers
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Champions
  • Chiefs
  • Captains
Quiet Cabal - This Fallen Empire devotes itself to quiet criminal operations behind their borders. Interfering with their business practices is likely to draw their ire.

This FE is Corporate rather than Imperial, and is ruled by a Don.
The FE's worlds use Synthetics with AI-disabled working as Servants for amenities.

Homeworld is a size 20 Gaia. One system away is another size 20 Gaia filled with buildings that produce immense amounts of Trade Value.

Outside the borders of the FE are 4 unnamed 'Dump Worlds', where the FE had developed illegal narcotics in ages past. Dump Worlds have a flat 50% Habitability for all species.
The Fallen Empire's fleets use Energy Weapons. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Focused Arc Emitters.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 8 Large Plasma Cannons
  • 4 Medium Gamma Lasers
  • 1 Focused Arc Emitter
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 2 Neutron Launchers
  • 4 Medium Gamma Lasers
  • 1 Neutron Launcher
  • 4 Small Plasma Cannons
  • 4 Guardian Point Defense
The Fallen Empire uses Xenomorph armies.
Their Omerta-class Colossus uses a Global Pacifier weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is generally calm and does little.

  • GIFTS - They will never give you Gifts, even if they like you.
  • BORDER ACCESS - They will never open their borders, even if they like you.
  • REQUESTS - They will never Request anything.
  • TASKS - They have no Tasks for anybody.
  • They will only demand Humiliation, but will not declare War if you refuse. Instead, the FE will begin opening Branch Offices on your worlds, and each time they do, they give a special Event letting you accept Humiliation in exchange for them no longer opening Branches and closing the existing ones.
Being Fanatic Pacifist, this FE cannot declare Wars of Aggression. Anyone on their bad side - both while Fallen and while Awoken - gets Branch Offices forcefully opened on their worlds, at massive discount for the FE. They will forcibly displace existing Branch Offices from other empires to do this, and can even open Branches if you're an empire that normally can't host Branches at all. Furthermore, they can build Branches for empires they are Warring, but not empires they have a Truce with.

The Branch Offices give +50 Crime/Deviancy to the world, but can only be closed by declaring Expropriation War. The Fallen Empire will always build Branch Buildings in the same order:
  • Tourist Trap - If you're not a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Crime. +200 Energy for the FE. -200 Trade Value for this planet.
  • Grid Clot - If you're a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Deviancy. +200 Energy for the FE. -200 Energy for the host Empire.
  • Propaganda Factory - If you're not a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Crime. +100% Planet Pacifist Ethics Attraction. -16 Host Empire Naval Capacity.
  • Demoralization Billboards - If you're a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Deviancy. -16 Host Empire Naval Capacity
  • Agitator Base - If you're not a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Crime. -50 Stability.
  • Signal Interference Base - If you're a Gestalt, they build this. +200 Deviancy. -50 Stability
  • Precursor Smuggling Ports - +200 Crime/Deviancy. 50% of all resources produced on this world are instead given to the FE.
Overbearing Crimelords - This Awakened Empire seeks to forcibly 'trade' with the lesser species. They will likely open terrible Branch Offices on the worlds of any empire that will not practice shady dealings with it.

  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They CANNOT be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They CANNOT be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Outfit- Outfits must pay 25% of their Energy Credits and Consumer Goods to the AE. They cannot declare war except for independence. They cannot build new Starbases. And all their worlds have +9999 Crime/Deviancy.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Hoarders
  • Stiffs
  • Churls
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Extortionists
  • Blackmailers
  • Fraudsters
Dreaming Mind- This Fallen Empire is an ancient hive mind that appears to have entered a deep slumber. While asleep, it may still attack us if we get too close it.

This FE is a Hive Mind rather than Imperial, ruled by a 'Sleeper'. The government form, rather than Stagnant Ascendency, is Lethargic Consciousness - An ancient collective consciousness that has fallen asleep.
The FE's pops can work special Amenity giving jobs, much like the Machine FE's.

Homeworld is a size 25 Hive World. One jump away, a size 10 Gaia has a small collection of non-Hive species kept in Observation jobs that give Society Research.
The Fallen Empire's fleets use Strike Craft. For their X-Slot weapons, they use Tachyon Lances.
  • 1 Titan Lance
  • 12 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 4 Medium Gauss Cannons
  • 1 Tachyon Lance
  • 4 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 4 Medium Gauss Cannons
  • 1 Kinetic Artillery
  • 2 Advanced Strike Craft
  • 4 Guardian Point Defense
The Fallen Empire uses Clone Armies.
Their Final-class Colossus uses a World Cracker weapon.
While Sleeping, the FE is slightly active.

  • GIFTS - If they like you, they can give you gifts.
  • BORDER ACCESS - They will never open their borders, even if they like you.
  • They can request 10x your monthly production of food, at a minimum of 500 and maximum of 2000.
  • TASKS - They have no Tasks for anybody.
  • Similar to the Xenophobes, sharing their borders gives -200 Opinion for Disturbing Rest. They can demand you remove the outposts, and will go to war to enforce it if you refuse.
Inquisitive Experimenter - This Awakened Empire seeks to learn more about the species that exist outside its own mind. It is likely to attack any empire that will not let themselves be poked and prodded like a test subject.

Their ruler title changes from 'Sleeper' to 'Central Awareness', and the government form is now an Academic Collective - An ancient collective consciousness that is greatly interested in lives outside its mind.

Once Awoken, they have +40 Opinion to all other empires for being 'Exotic Outsiders'.
  • UPSTARTS - They can awaken from Upstarts.
  • WAR IN HEAVEN - They can trigger a second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven, but only rarely as they have no Opposite Ethic.
  • ANCIENT RIVALS - They can be the second empire to awaken and begin the War in Heaven, but only rarely as they have no Opposite Ethic.
  • GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - They can be the Guardians of the Galaxy during a Crisis.
Experiment- Experiments that are Mechanical have -33% Amenities on all their worlds, and give the AE as much. Experiments that are Biological instead have -75% Pop Growth on all their worlds, and give the AE as much.
While Fallen they can be called the:
  • Sleeper
  • Dreamer
  • Murmurer
When Awoken, they can be called the:
  • Inquirer
  • Learner
  • Investigator
Please do let me know what you think.
 
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DukeLeto42

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I feel like the Hive Mind could be flavored a little more entertainingly as "Bored God." They could behave and be described as something like a player in the late stage of a 4x game who got bored and just got distracted from the "game" of conquering the galaxy once they were too powerful. With their awakening, the "Experiment" subject cost could be reduced slightly, but the AFE could also randomly mess with your worlds (like bombarding a planet into a tomb world for funsies, or randomly boosting crime to a world for a while just to "see what happens").
 

sortulv

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Authoritarian: 1984 - A society concerned mostly with keeping it's own population doing mindless work.
Population would be mostly slaves/workers.
They should have special buildings making alloys, and unlike most FE, they should be making new ships - and then disbanding them to avoid the upkeep.

Awakening - should be about making a feudal empire.
 
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Foefaller

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I had a suggestion for Pacifist FA a while back that wasn't too different from yours.

Mine weren't Corporate though, and they did interact with you, mainly to "buy" an uncolonized planet in your borders they turn into an art project (i.e. Gaia world) they expect you to leave untouched, for a bit of resources or tech that would be kinda condescending if you were a Fallen Empire. Also might have a member of the FE explore the galaxy, while having a shopping spree that would put Mansa Musa to shame.

Also, they wouldn't show you their displeasure by building Crime Syndicate type banch offices, but by flooding one of your most developed planets with so much wealth that the local economy collapses from hyperinflation, fights and crime over the most wondrous "gifts," and people quitting their jobs to become decadent pops for a few years. (Some empires might get unique "gifts" depending on their empire ethics and policies; Hive Minds, for example, would find their drones stoned on some drug they dumped into the atmosphere, while Utopian Abundance see their pops lost in better-than-reality VR devices where they can live out the fantastic dreamworlds and dark fantasies that you could never provide.)
 

Tamwin5

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TBH, I'm not a huge fan of these interpretations. They just feel too shallow. The authoritarians have nothing going on besides the slave species. The Egalitarians just care about living standards (also Utopian abundance would flat out kill MANY empires late game. Not a good design decision. No slaves+Social Welfare would be enough, along with some other tribute.) Militarists doesn't feel like a Fallen Empire, aloof and above the galaxy, more like jumped up Marauders. Imo, they should be "Forlorn Champions", who got so strong that they simply don't have anyone to challenge them.

Pacifists and Hiveminds I do like some ideas. Pacifists should 100% be a mega corporation, but I don't think they should be a criminal syndicate. Feels a little too niche. I do like the Super negative branch offices as a method of enforcing humiliation though. The Pacifist subjects should 100% have to give away trade value as their tribute though. The Sleeping hive should have more mechanics when asleep, imo. Having the awoken I've be inquisitive is something novel, and I think it could work well. Instead of population growth, I think it would be interesting if the tribute was in Unity. The hive syphoning away the collective power of your people...

All of your systems are too bare bones and uninteresting, with the exception of the resort world for egalitarians. Every FE should have some special little uniqueness, hinting at some lore and past deeds. The Militarists should have a massive planet-wide arena. The hive could have several overgrown hive worlds near it. Think of how the robots have their ruined Ring-Worlds, or the materialists with their archive.
 
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iSaluki

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Not really got any suggestions for this , but I'd absolutely love to see this implemented.
 

G S Palmer

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These are really great ideas, including some of the follow-up comments. I have a few suggestions:

For the Militarists, I feel like their worlds should be a special type of tomb world encased in arcologies where the surface is completely uninhabitable. Also agree with the suggestion that they should have a planet called The Arena, and perhaps sometimes they should request either pops or armies to serve as gladiators. They should also have a number of shattered and/or tomb worlds around their borders, with a "Memorial to a Fallen Rival" planetary modifier, that they will not let you study (if shattered) or colonize (if tomb). Their government should be a mix of your idea and Tamwin5's, being an empire that has lost all valid rivals and now only finds joy in the voyeuristic enjoyment of lesser race's struggles.

For the Hive Mind FE, I agree that subjects should lose unity, as well as having "experiments" performed upon them, such as the Hive enforcing mandatory brain-parasite observer implants on one of your planets. Also, just like the machine fallen empire can be corrupted by the Contingency, perhaps the Hive Mind fallen empire can be subsumed by the Prethoryn. I also like the suggestion that they should have overgrown hive worlds near them, but perhaps they could be dead hive worlds instead, or "bone worlds". If you colonize them, some sort of pre-sapient of the same species as the Hive Mind could appear on the planet some time after colonization, having burrowed it's way up from deep underground hives. The hive mind could either ask you to return the pops to them, or to exterminate them.

For the Authoritarians, I feel like their slaves should be their own species, since having slaves of another species is more of a xenophobe thing. They should also be able to request slaves. Futhermore, their armies shouldn't be vanilla slave armies, but something sufficiently juiced up for a FE. As for their homeworld, it should have a small (minimum possible size) ecumenopolis moon in orbit, filled with buildings for collecting/storing data on citizens and jobs to work them, as well as a few Correctional Facilities holding political dissidents.

The Egalitarians should consist of multiple different species. Not only that, but most of them should be cyborgs (everybody wants to be upgraded to their "best self").
 
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G S Palmer

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Another idea for the Egalitarian fallen empire: they may request that you send a delegation to one of their worlds. Upon return, the delegation will report on the amazing conditions that the citizens of the FE live in, causing your empire to get a major egalitarian ethics attraction for 5-10 years.
 
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Tamwin5

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rus-chel

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I would love if those suggestions 100% goes to aforementioned mod (and then to vanilla in patch)
 
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Cry_Havok

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I like some of the ideas, but Egalitarian not being able to become guardian seems weird to me, and their demands seem a bit harsh/untennable. I'd change F-Egal to instead have their subjects require Social Welfare/Shared burdens or better, and change ethics to F-Egalitarian, and forbid slavery/purging (forced ethics change is very similar to Spiritualist), and I would let them become a guardian

Authoritarian I'd put strings on them becoming guardian. They will awaken as a guardian, but they will only come to the aid of those who become Fiefs. They won't declare war during the crisis, but they won't attack crisis fleet's that aren't in their or a fief's borders (deliberately). Make their slaves robust, v-strong, communal, and give them a "quest" to sell surplus slaves for some obscene cost, which gives a slight opinion bonus.
 
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CoarmiuS

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I would change pacifists.
Somehow the idea of a brach office does not look good. It seems to me that they should act (after waking up) as a real shield against war.
They demanded the cessation of wars, and along with very low opinion, I would leave them the opportunity to declare war with the condition of pacification.

PS: When I was just thinking about it ... it seems broken too!
 

Methone

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I like some of the ideas, but Egalitarian not being able to become guardian seems weird to me
Egalitarian does not necessarily mean good (In fact I was trying to 'invert' the good-bad with the Auth-Egal AE, think of the AI Personality Harmonious Collective vs Democratic Crusader), and AE subject types are meant to be at least somewhat penalizing - even the Xenophile Subject Type messes up slaver empires.

Also, requiring a shift to F-Egal makes them too similar to the Spiritualist AE.
 
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Foefaller

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I would change pacifists.
Somehow the idea of a brach office does not look good. It seems to me that they should act (after waking up) as a real shield against war.
They demanded the cessation of wars, and along with very low opinion, I would leave them the opportunity to declare war with the condition of pacification.

PS: When I was just thinking about it ... it seems broken too!
How would that make them meaningfully different from Fallen Xenophiles though?

IMO, the most interesting way to with fallen Pacifist empires isn't going with "we hate hurting others" pacifism, but "Violence is for stupid people who can't get what they want otherwise" pacifism. The fact you fight wars is proof of how primitive you are, "Enlightened" peoples use economics and diplomacy to achieve their goals, even if the result is societal collapse and anarchy in your empire. Just further proof of how unenlightened your species is.
 
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