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Very interesting, TheLand!

Sorry it's taken me a few days to get over here. But I believe I very much like the new V:R system!

Thanks for producing an entertaining introduction.

Rensslaer
 
' am curious to see how it all turns out ...
I was doubtful about auto-industrialization, for the reasons that were mentioned above, so i hope it won't waste my pleasure to rule the world (oops, rule my empire :D ) ...
 
The 'New Technology' boom of the 1900s...

I was anxious that my Empire would be too full of wineries and distilleries to make full use of the new technologies on the horizon -things like aeroplanes, automobiles, and the elephone...

To this end in the late 1880s and 1890s I embarked on a programme of factory management - promoting and aplitting POPs to fill factories and putting in a new Capitalist or two here and there; and deleting the occasional winery and distillery! The idea was that this would help make sure there were growth opportunities available in the new industries...

1899deleteliquorgv3.jpg


... and it worked.

1902electricgeargp8.jpg


I'll give you an idea of industrial progress over those years in the next post...
 
And yes, the capitalists start to build the universally popular Unknown String Wanted!!
(which turns out to be the radio).

1924unknownstringwantedvn1.jpg


In any case, here are some industry-related figures for 1904 to 1932.

Code:
	             1904      1914	1932
IndScore              3845	4324	6658
Railroad Level	4 or 5	5	6
Factory POPs	325	359	483

Factories:			
Aeroplanes	2	2	2
Ammunition	2	2	2
Artillery   	1	1	1
Canned food	1	1	1
Cement	             1	1	1
Dye	             2	1	2
Electric Gear	3	4	4
Explosives	1	1	1
Fabric	             1	1	1
Fertilizer	             2	2	1
Fuel	             1	1	1
Furniture	             6	8	8
Glass	             3	2	5
Liquor	             1	2	3
Lumber	             6	6	6
Luxury clothes	4	5	6
Luxury furniture	6	4	4
Machine Parts	1	1	2
Paper	             2	3	2
Radio			             4
Regular clothes	7	6	6
Small Arms	2	2	2
Steamers	             3	4	7
Steel	             3	3	7
Telephones	3	4	4
Wine	             3	3	7

Total…	67	70	90

Total Civilian	38	39	52
Total Construction	11	11	16
Total Military	21	24	26

Bear in mind that all through this I was making liberal sue of the 'delete factory' button: princiapply on wine, glass and liquor but also on clothes, lux clothes, furniture, lux furniture and even things like telephones, dye, fetriliser and cement.

The increase in 'military' factories comes almost entirely from the considerable increase in the Steamer factories! These evidently get very profitable when people (like, erm, me) start building dreadnoughts. I imagine Steel became more profitable given the greater number of downstream uses with aeroplanes, steamers et al becoming more important.

However the Capitalists were resolutely focused on the pursuit of food, furniture and clothing. Don't forget they started building many many more of these things and I deleted them in a vain effort to get more military potential out of them.

The capitalists didn't want to build ANY automobiles (in fact no-one did worldwide). Wen I became Fascist in 1933 I started to build cars and tanks and both turned out to be extremely profitable. Not sure whey the capis weren't interested in them.

So, pretty much, 'there you are then': I might go back through some saves and do the same sort of analysis for previous years... just goes to show, the capitalists will make you wealthy well enough but military progress they will not provide!
 
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Excellent demonstration in an AAR.
 
French Industrial Development 1845-1932

Another paper from the Victoria Economic History School.

I have looked at various industrial indicators, including factory numbers, through the whole game so people can get an even better idea of what the Capis are building. There wont be any more posts in this AAR except this sorta thing.

The time points are fairly regular except for 1888 - 1896 - 1904 which are close together to give examples of late-19thC industrial development.

The numbers given for factories count expansions (eg a level-3 factory counts for 3 points here). This is a change from the last post on this subject!

Overall an extra 108 factories were built (not counting, of course, those that were deleted during the game) I have also divided factories into 4 categories.

Armaments are Artillery, Ammunition, Canned Food, Explosives, Fertiliser, Small Arms, Tanks and Steamer Convoys: Goods that have no peaceful application whatsoever. (note that Tanks were never produced by anyone in this game).

This group grew by 14 out of the 108 factories: 13% of total growth, growing to 333% of initial size
Almost all this growth was in steamer convoys, which dramatically expanded with the invention of late-game naval techs. Possibly 3 such factories were deleted: one fertiliser, one expolsives and one artillery (the last entirely by accident). If these factories had remained built this sector mgiht have represeented 15% of new construction and grown to 383% of initial size.

I have also calculated armaments exluding steamer convoys so show how the genuinely military armaments were totally static through the game.

Heavy industry is Automobiles, Aeroplanes, Electric Gear, and Fuel: high-tech goods that have civilian demand but also are important to the late-game military. (Note that automobiles were never produced by anyone in this game)

This group emerged in the 1890s and 7 factories were built, representing 6.4% of total development and 11% of development since 1888. Bear in mind this group is much smaller than either Armaments or Civilian.

Construction is Steel, Cement, Machine Parts and Lumber: goods with no military application and no civilian demand which are mainly used to build factories and railroads

This group mushroomed from 4 to 25 factories, representing 19% of growth, and growing to 625% of its original size. Growth was strongest with a massive increase in steel from 1914 to 1932 - not entirely sure why, but a simultaneous growth in MPs suggests possibly the downstream demand for aeroplanes and steamers plays a role.

Civilian is other goods, which all have high civilian demand but only incidental military applications.

These soared from 11 to 77, represeenting 61% of growth and a 700% increase. Bear in mind that many, many factories of this type were deleted, particularly from 1880s onwards, in an attempt to focus development on heavy and military industry. Left to a natural course there would have been more of these industries. With wine, liquor and glass these deletion splurges are quite noticeable in the figures.

Overall Discussion

The overall picture illustrates the tendency of capitalists to build useless luxuries extremely well, as you can see from comparing the growth of civilian goods to that of armaments. Armaments grew by 3.3x; civilian good grew by 7x, in spite of my efforts to hold them back.

However, that said, there are points which illustrate the potential to influence a capitalist economy.

Looking at 1888 to 1904, the net increase in civilian factories was only 2 (12% of growth over the period), thanks to my adopting a slash and burn approach with the drink industry, deleting a net 15 drinks factories! (oh noes!). While mux civilian growth occurred nonetheless (e.g the significant growth of furniture and clothing in this time), the overall effect was 5 armaments factories (29%) , 6 new 'heavy industry' factories (35%) and 4 new construction factories (24%): far out of line with the proportions of growth these sectors occupied over the century. This was a remarkable period of sustained non-civilian development - caused by deliberately trashing a part of the civilian economy. And even so, relatively few armaments emerged from it.

However other questions need to be asked: is military development all it's cracked up to be? France was able to become the world's no.1 power with a massive fleet of dreadnoughts and a successful war against Prussia even with no Artillery, Small Arms, Ammunition or Canned Food factory being built since start. (And there was another question which i can't remember).


Code:
	1845	1861	1875	1888	1896	1904	1914	1932	
IND	381	1052	1521	2108	2987	3845	4324	6658	Ind Score
RANK	4	2	1	1	1	1			Ind Rank
RR	0 or 1	3	3	4	4	4 or 5	5	6	Railroad Level
POPS	108	149	199	226	303	325	359	483	Factory POPs
									
Tfax	21	39	61	66	74	83	92	129	Total Factories
									
Arm 	6	9	11	10	12	15	16	20	Total Armaments
Hvy 	0	0	0	0	3	6	7	7	Total Heavy Ind
Con	4	7	8	9	10	13	14	25	Total Construction
Civ	11	23	42	47	49	49	55	77	Total Civilian
Arm-Ste	6	8	10	9	9	10	9	8	Armaments Ex Steamer

									
AER	0	0	0	0	1	2	2	2	Aeroplanes
AMM	1	1	2	2	2	2	2	2	Ammunition
ART	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Artillery
CNF	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Canned food
CEM	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Cement
DYE	0	0	0	0	2	2	1	2	Dye
ELG	0	0	0	0	1	3	4	4	Electric Gear
EXP	1	1	2	1	1	1	1	1	Explosives
FAB	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	Fabric
FER	1	2	2	2	2	3	2	1	Fertilizer
FUE	0	0	0	0	1	1	1	1	Fuel
FUR	1	2	3	3	5	7	10	16	Furniture
GLA	1	3	10	13	9	9	7	10	Glass
LIQ	0	3	6	7	5	1	2	4	Liquor
LMb	3	4	5	6	6	8	8	8	Lumber
LXC	1	2	2	2	3	5	7	11	Luxury clothes
LXF	1	2	3	4	6	7	5	5	Luxury furniture
MPA	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	3	Machine Parts
PAP	1	2	4	4	4	3	6	2	Paper
RAD	0	0	0	0	0	0		4	Radio
RGC	1	1	3	3	4	7	5	6	Regular clothes
SMA	1	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	Small Arms
SMR	0	1	1	1	3	5	7	12	Steamers
STE	1	1	1	1	2	3	4	13	Steel
TEL	0	0	0	0	0	2	4	4	Telephones
WIN	2	5	8	8	8	3	5	10	Wine
 
Mmm, on the question of armaments, presumably you ended up buying fair portions of what you needed from the world market. Did any other nation take up some of that slack?
 
Using Krupp's cannons to defeat the Germans, i presume :D

Still, it's a bit odd that no cars and tanks whatsoever. Perhaps a system is needed where one can encourage the building of military equipment factories.

Interesting read!
 
hjarg said:
Using Krupp's cannons to defeat the Germans, i presume :D

Still, it's a bit odd that no cars and tanks whatsoever. Perhaps a system is needed where one can encourage the building of military equipment factories.

Interesting read!

I can see why no-one woudl set up tank factories given the lack of cars. Can't see why the lack of cars! All those wealthy POPs would have created a big global car demand...
 
starting a demand by buying up nonexistant goods like automobiles creates a demand by which the capitalist will determine if they want to create a factory

so if you had started to make a demand for tanks and auto's sometime in the 1900's and on you would have had auto factories popping up all over... though not nessearily in france... :eek: (from my own experiences)