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EU4 - Development Diary - 8th of September 2020

Hey everyone! So there’s been quite a few development diaries from @neondt now on South East Asia telling you about the new content we’ll be adding to it, a region that had gotten a bit missed by us over the years and which very much needed some love from us. I am going to do the exact same, but an entirely different region that I have always wanted to do better than how it currently is.

I have always as a player liked playing the under dogs and as such the Americas have always been some of my favorite places to play in, to fight against the invasion of the Europeans and establishing your own nation in your own image. But the last time we really touched on the North American tribes were in Conquest of Paradise and these mechanics haven’t aged… well. If I would sum up the mechanics today of how it is to play a Migratory tribe it is to “wait”. You wait to migrate, you wait for Europeans, you wait, you wait you wait. So we decided to redo all of these mechanics that came with Conquest of Paradise from the ground up and just make North America a lot more vibrant and fun to play in. This of course will still be part of the Conquest of Paradise DLC so it’s a semi-free change :)

In the coming dev diaries you are going to be getting a lot of work in progress interfaces, so stay with me as my ux skills are not the best. We got a lot to cover so let's get started with the mechanics of how I’ve changed the migratory tribes.



So one thing that did bother me was how we portrayed the migration, the various people of north america didn’t usually migrate from the Appalachian to the Rockies every other decade or so. They had a concept of land that they used and seasonally migrated between, but they did consider it to “belong to them” in some manner. Now we can’t have seasonal migration as it doesn't fit how the game flows but these changes should make it more fun and meaningful to interact with.

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First there's tribal ownership of land, this is sort of a semi ownership of the province, it belongs to the tribe but its resources are not being currently fully exploited. People can move in and out of these provinces freely and Europeans can even colonize them. One of the reasons why we haven’t populated the eastern seaboard much has been because it would block European colonization but with this change it allows us to actually fill out North America a bit more. Like let’s say introducing the Mississippi civilizations.

A province can be made into your tribal land by adding it at a cost for 100 Administrative Monarch Power, it also requires you to have migrated to it. If you try to integrate a province that is not connected to your already defined territory it will abandon the previous and start a new home for you at that province.

Coupled with this the migration is no longer a thing that is locked to a cooldown that you press every now and then in order to get some extra mana. Instead the feature has been reworked into something you need to do in order to keep growing as your tribe keeps depleting the natural resources of the current province you are in.

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You can migrate to any province that is not directly owned by anyone, that includes into other tribes territories. Migrating currently as I’m writing this costs 50 military monarch points but it’s still up for balance tweaks. For each step though you migrate outside of your territory the cost will double. You can still migrate away to wherever you want and set up a new territory to live there instead but as you won’t be limited by a timer anymore you’ll still be limited by your monarch points.

So why would you want to migrate through? While you stay in a single province the tribe will be causing devastation in that province, until it eventually reaches a 100%. In addition to this each tribe has a tribal development that grows each month little by little as long as the province hasn't reached 100% devastation. The larger the tribe is, the faster the devastation goes up to simulate their increased consumption.

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Part of appealing to the fantasy I talked previously about we’ve also redone how reformation works and integrated it into the Government Reform system instead. We’ll talk more about that in a later development diary, but the first step will be to settle your tribe which will enable you to settle your tribal development into several provinces letting you expand and grow stronger. The goal is to also have it possible for you to continue reforming your tribe without settling which will have a unique reward at the end of the tree.

How you gain reform progress is going to be different and something we are currently working on. We won’t be relying on the average autonomy as that won’t make sense and right now we have it mainly comes from buildings (that migrate with you mind you) but as always I am keen to listen to community suggestions :)

Native Tribes will have a new set of CB’s available to them to fit with their new way to fight wars. The migratory peace treaty has been remade to be focused around your tribal territory, you will force out any other migratory tribe that has moved into your land and make them either return home or to any border province of yours. There is also a feud CB against bordering tribes to try and take their territory away from them. And then last a CB that lets you fight off Europeans colonising in your home which will burn their colonies. (Tribes can’t use the burn colony interaction anymore and must use the CB now)

This does it for this development diary. We’ll continue to cover the new ways the native americans work next week. Cya then!
 
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Are these changes to migration and territorial claims applied to South America as well? And will South America also get some flavour? Right now, only Central America and the Caribbean have recieved an acceptable amount of content, so North America indeed deserves some flavour, but South America is even more lackluster than North America and should also get some attention. Are there any plans to rework that area as well? Or will they once again be the left out of the scope of the patch?
 
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This is very unexpected update on such lacking part of game. It is gonna feel lot more natural to migrate with this rework. It sounds so much better than past changes. I mean I was generally annoyed to be blocked by natives while colonizing as well.

Meanwhile are you also gonna look into Siberian natives? Me (and many others) have threads about missing tags (like Yakuts) and playing Siberian tag feels even more lackluster than playing North American native now. :D
 
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You just made happy 17 players, with him i`m sitting in disscord. I have been playing the game for 5-6 years, and i never have seen mp-players in this region, because it`s always was so boring, but something can change now, wow.


1) What do you think about idea, if native american win wars agains their neighbor (natives or colonists) they will get serious bonus in Adm/Dip/Mil points+process of reform. It`s will make some sense for wars in region and make process
It`s will make process of reforming more interesting?

2) In EU4 natives meet europeans a lot faster than historically, but generally, if you meet english colonists in 1500 you just can`t do anything because you unreformed. Can you give some powerfull bonus in reform, if you border some colonists(or, just meet them for once) earlier?

3) What we have to do now if we want stop migrate and start to unite region?


4)Will you make some military bonuses for historically powerfull countries in this region to show their historical militancy? (Questions from mp-players ^^)

Thank you, guys
 
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Scayser said:
1) What do you think about idea, if native american win wars agains their neighbor (natives or colonists) they will get serious bonus in Adm/Dip/Mil points+process of reform. It`s will make some sense for wars in region and make process
It`s will make process of reforming more interesting?
Click to expand...

I have considered looping in reform progress somehow into wars to represent the raids various groups did against each other. Not sure how it should look though.

Scayser said:
3) What we have to do now if we want stop migrate and start to unite region?
Click to expand...

If I understood your question correctly, I covered that in the DD, there will be a gov reform that will make you stop migrate and enable you to do some other things.
 
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TheSleep3r said:
@Groogy Great changes - since you are touching North America, will you also take a look at colonization balance? Let me quote myself from another thread:
Click to expand...
I disagree with the claim that Colonization is too fast, Spain in real life Colonized the Americas far quicker than they ever do in this game.
spcol1550.gif

By 1550, the Spanish AI has about 1 or 2 colonial nations, while its real life counterpart would have the game equivalent of 4 or 5, Spain always underperforms colonialy.

On the flip side, England and Portugal always overperform. England usually takes Exploration as their second idea and begins colonizing in the 15th century, while in real life they only established their first colony in the 17th century, that is WAY too early.

Portugal has its priorities wrong and overfocuses in American colonization instead of focusing in reaching Asia and taking CoTs in Africa and Asia, often taking Expansion as their second idea and using their age bonus to hog the Americas instead of using it along Africa to reach Indonesia before the Reformation.

America gets fully colonized too early because of England and Portugal overperforming, but Spain underperforms. This is not an issue with Colonization speed, but an issue with AI priotities.
 
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Bandua_of_Gallaecia said:
I disagree with the claim that Colonization is too fast, Spain in real life Colonized the Americas far quicker than they ever do in this game.
Click to expand...

Colonization is both too fast and too slow. Earlygame colonizers can't match the historical place, while lategame they happily expand into territories that would take naother 50 years or so to be properly colonized OTL.

I think what needs to happen is for colonization speeds to be slashed down but coastal areas getting extra colonization speed.
 
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I like the focus on North American tribes, but I'm not sure this is entirely an accurate representation. Focusing purely on the Haudensaunee/Iroquois here, the pattern was that they defeated nearby peoples, and push them out of their territories, but didn't have enough population to settle them, and thus left those lands "empty" as hunting grounds. They certainly kept claims on those lands, and regarded conquered tribes as vassals. What we really need is some sort of "0 dev, but owned" mechanic to explain those lands, in the absence of having pops.

I'd also like to point out that filling in the Eastern Seaboard is actually historically accurate, as we already have a mechanic for gaining provinces in lands that are owned by other nations - the "charter company" action. If anything, that represents a more accurate way of how land was "purchased" by European settlers, before they started conquering inland.

One way to combine these ideas is to have North America be initially filled in with tribes, and then have smallpox/European diseases appear as disasters, which gradually strips provinces of development. This leaves the land in the "0 dev but claimed" state, which should require some cost to hold versus just abandoning it (or they can be claimed/colonized, at the cost of a CB). Then, as Europeans appear, they can gain land by chartering it (aka Minuit style purchases), which are appealing to American nations, as that gets them institutions (which is somewhat historical, as that represents trade goods). Other provinces are left vacant by the epidemics, which allow other openings for colonization. That said, we would need to see a massive decline in colony growth rates, and the number of colonists to make this work.
 
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Very interesting changes however will there be a official statement by the developers here on the forum about the... misfortunate start of 1.30 and the long silence until we got the beta patch? How will you try to prevent something like this from happening again?
 
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Several questions and suggestions about colonial nations:

1) Will whatever patch this developer diary is about include updates on colonial nations?

2) Do you have any interest in adjusting colonial regions' boundaries to match those of trade nodes? It's not a huge problem, but there are a few cases where colonial regions include small portions of downstream trade nodes. Colonial Eastern America including provinces from the Gulf of St. Lawrence node is an example.

3) Do you have any interest in reworking the Treaty of Tordesillas? It produces ahistorical outcomes now, where single (Catholic) countries wind up controlling entire colonial regions. Perhaps restrict Catholic countries from colonizing the same areas as one another, rather than colonial regions? This would be particularly helpful in the Caribbean.

4) European countries, especially Portugal, often colonize the "wrong" colonial regions, especially Brazil, which seems to be colonized by everyone except Portugal. (Portugal tends to focus on the Caribbean instead, and Castile/Spain tends to ignore the Caribbean entirely in my experience.) Is this something you're interested in nudging towards a more historical outcome? Building on what I suggested in (3), reworking the Treaty of Tordesillas into a dynamic historical event between Portugal, Castile/Spain, and perhaps the Papal State might prevent this. The event's outcome could force Portugal to focus on colonizing in Brazil and West Africa, force Castile/Spain to focus on colonizing Latin America, and effectively prevent other (Catholic) Europeans from contesting Brazil in later decades.

5) Colonial nations' traditions remove penalties for heathen provinces. Would it make sense to change this so that it only affects heretic provinces? This would incentivize colonial nations in Mexico and South America to actually convert the religions of their conquered provinces.

6) Will colonial nations convert the cultures of provinces they conquer from natives? If my suggestion in (5) is implemented, I'd suggest making colonial nations' AIs focus on religious and culture conversion for provinces with heathen religions (and, possibly, which don't have expelled minorities in them), and promote cultures of provinces with true faith or heretic religions.
 
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OneNineTwoSix said:
With new migration, you can't get big tribes?
If you have 5-6 province tribe, will it literally devastate the land like locust swarm?
How devastation is reduced? In real life the land will recover during 1-3 years, but in game terms 100% devastation is decades to wear down statically?
Without forts and stability is development the only way to reduce devastation?

If tribe is a player, do Europeans arrive at devastated land with one big blob, that can't stop devastating?
If devastation is reduced by reforms, how will AI handle it?
Click to expand...

My understanding that tribes with larger development will be inclined to increase their territory and migrate more often.
 
I really like that you are updating old dlc.
 
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klingonadmiral said:
Colonization is both too fast and too slow. Earlygame colonizers can't match the historical place, while lategame they happily expand into territories that would take naother 50 years or so to be properly colonized OTL.

I think what needs to happen is for colonization speeds to be slashed down but coastal areas getting extra colonization speed.
Click to expand...
Agreed, also most of the early colonization of Spain was subjugation of native nations, which they do not do until rather late in the game atm.
 
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