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C.O.R.E. Tech Tree: Land units, techs and doctrines

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Armor enphasis

Mayby can be added a tech, or five in fact, that leaves to the player the option to decide in wich aspect of the armor the country will make enphasis.

Example:
Prioritice firepower (incress HA, SA, decress the others)
Prior armor (incress armor, decress the others)
Prior mobility (incress mov, decres the others)
Prior costs (lower build and running costs, lower quality)
Prefer all arround (incress a little each)
 
USSR losing ability to develop decent Tanks?

Ok, this is probably a case of user misunderstanding but I've tried 2 games as the Soviets researching heavily in Infantry and Armor Techs and Doctrines (in fact the last game I tried to emphasize Armor doctrines due to the problem that I am going to mention) and I keep running into the problem that when I try to develop Tanks with guns larger than 57mm, I keep getting messages to the effect that I have pursued a technology path that will not allow me to develop them?? Distressing in that I have already spent a lot of resources developing the prior required techs....

Any thoughts??
 
Armor

Diego EV: Armor differentiation is already in the game with some of the existing technologies. For example, you get a choice between Christie and Vickers suspension or cast versus rivetted hulls. In the case of firepower, each type of tank can only be equipped with one main gun, so you have a choice to effect the HA/SA based on the main gun selection.

Bwayne72: Are you also developing the artillery tech's? To get into the larger tank guns, you also have to research some mid-range artillery tech's that are described as anti-tank gun technology. The better tank gun tech's are on the other side of those.
 
Schleprock said:
Anyone care to venture an opinion on why the Allies can build flame tanks since they don't have access to Advanced flamethrowers?

Seems a little odd to me.

Thanks
Schlep
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Hmm, might be a scripting error although we sometimes add techs which activate units without giving all the pre-reqs for balance purposes. I'll take a look at it.
 
When you develop a tank with a certain caliber gun, it deactivates all the other gun type models. I think it shouldn't be so. If you develop one, it deactivates all the others below itself is enough. (Why would I need a worse tank when I can get a better?) Why couldn't I fit my tanks with the new tank guns I just developed, just the ones I will develop later? I think if you develop a tank with a certain caliber gun, it should only deactivate the ones below.
 
Kriszo said:
When you develop a tank with a certain caliber gun, it deactivates all the other gun type models. I think it shouldn't be so. If you develop one, it deactivates all the others below itself is enough. (Why would I need a worse tank when I can get a better?) Why couldn't I fit my tanks with the new tank guns I just developed, just the ones I will develop later? I think if you develop a tank with a certain caliber gun, it should only deactivate the ones below.
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While this may seem like a great solution for the player who wishes to develop his forces gradually it is a real killer for the AI as it will always try to research all techs available and every time a new gun model and thereafter tank model is researched it will upgrade all of its tanks and wast lots of IC doing so. Therefore the deactivation is WAD or Working As Designed and not likely to change.

Ghost_dk
 
Is it not possible to somehow link these deactivation things to the AI only or the Human only techs, you get at the start of the game?
 
And if there would be two tech tables for every tank, an AI and a Human, and the AI ones would deactivate each other and the Human ones not?
 
The AI setup tech could certainly disable all but one of each tank model. Unfortunately the tank models are interlinked with tank guns and other improvements so mapping this out for each nation would be quite a task. Also if a human player switches from one country to another (common practise in some MP groups) this kind of solution creates a lot of issues. It may be possibly to make this work but it would be a very big job.
 
Steel said:
The AI setup tech could certainly disable all but one of each tank model. Unfortunately the tank models are interlinked with tank guns and other improvements so mapping this out for each nation would be quite a task. Also if a human player switches from one country to another (common practise in some MP groups) this kind of solution creates a lot of issues. It may be possibly to make this work but it would be a very big job.
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Well, I didn't mean it so. My idea was, to create the exact same tank techs for AI and human players, but the AI techs would deactivate each other and the humans not. The AI setup tech would disable all the human tanks, and the human setup tech would disable all the AI tanks. The techs for AI and human would be the clones of each other, the only difference would be, that the AI deactivates the others and the human not. Well, this is not compatible with country switching, but the human and AI setup techs are also not, so I think this would be a solution.
 
What I would find irritating is 15 double techs in the armor techtree. And I think that many other people would agree.

I also would like to have more armor models available but I think that it's just not possible to make and keep everybody happy.
 
I'd be tempted to "brutalise" the AI tech tree for Tanks, and make it only build perhaps 2 or 3 models of each "selection" - eg Basic Medium tanks - the player has a choice of MG, 30+mm, 40+mm, 50+mm, short 75+mm (5 choices) or for Improved mediums, 40+mm, 50+mm, Medium 75+mm, Long 75+mm, 85+mm. For the AI, I'd probably restrict it to (say) Basic - 30+/50+/Short 75+ or for Improved - 50+/Medium 75+/85+.

Whislt I'm at it.. I would actually "prune" the gun tree somewhat - to me, there is no significant difference between a 37mm gun & a 40mm gun, especially for AA weaponry. I would classify tank/AT/AA gun as follows :-

Machine GUns :- Up to 15mm

Cannon :- 20-25mm

Light :- 37-40mm

Early Medium :- 45-50mm
57mm (6pdr)

Late Medium :- 75-77mm Short / Close support (HE only)
75-77mm Medium (AT/Tank/AA)
75-77mm Long (Panther, maybe 17pdr ?)

Heavy :- 85-95mm Medium (eg Tiger I/Flak 36, T34/85)
85-95mm Long (Tiger II, Pershing 90mm ?)

Extra Heavy :- 100-110mm (Mainly AA, but also tanks - eg Centurion)

Super Heavy :- 120-130mm (Jagdtiger, IS2, large AA)

Ultra Heavy :- 150-155mm (Maus, static AA)

Having studied the way things developed, it seems to me that much of the later development of the larger calibre tank/AT guns was driven by the pre-existing AA guns, which were a known entity, firing high velocity ammunition already in production, and then adapted to meet the ever voracious demands of tankers and AT Gunners for larger, more powerful guns.

Hopefully my categories cover pretty much every weapon people can think of ! (probably for most other artillery pieces too) I'm tempted to suggest that the 45-50mm and the 57mm are more or less mutually exclusive.. but I have a feeling the Soviets used 45mm tank guns and 57mm AA guns.. might be Ok, if they chose the different tech path for AA vs AT/Tank guns.

Any thoughts/ Comments welcomed.

Tim
 
bwayne72 said:
Ok, this is probably a case of user misunderstanding but I've tried 2 games as the Soviets researching heavily in Infantry and Armor Techs and Doctrines (in fact the last game I tried to emphasize Armor doctrines due to the problem that I am going to mention) and I keep running into the problem that when I try to develop Tanks with guns larger than 57mm, I keep getting messages to the effect that I have pursued a technology path that will not allow me to develop them?? Distressing in that I have already spent a lot of resources developing the prior required techs....

Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

Little more detail:
It is 1939 and I'm trying to research Basic Tanks (50mm+). Per the research screen I have researched all prior requisites (basic tanks, basic medium tank prototype, and tank gun 50mm). When I click on the start researching button I get the following message: "You have progressed down another path path in research and cannot research this technology"??!!??!! I checked and the best tank gun I have researched is the 50mm. Doctrine wise, I have researched Modern Tank Warfare, Motorized HQs, and Motorized Warfare.

Am I missing something???? Help! (I don't want face the German horders solely with BT7s...) :wacko:
 
Crazyhorse said:
What I would find irritating is 15 double techs in the armor techtree. And I think that many other people would agree.

I also would like to have more armor models available but I think that it's just not possible to make and keep everybody happy.
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OK, Anyway I'll try to make it for myself. Which tech IDs are free to use?
 
bwayne72 said:
Little more detail:
It is 1939 and I'm trying to research Basic Tanks (50mm+). Per the research screen I have researched all prior requisites (basic tanks, basic medium tank prototype, and tank gun 50mm). When I click on the start researching button I get the following message: "You have progressed down another path path in research and cannot research this technology"??!!??!! I checked and the best tank gun I have researched is the 50mm. Doctrine wise, I have researched Modern Tank Warfare, Motorized HQs, and Motorized Warfare.

Am I missing something???? Help! (I don't want face the German horders solely with BT7s...) :wacko:
Click to expand...

Then you probally already have a Basic Medium Tank (37mm or 20mm) with a different gun researched.

You can only research 1 of each tank model. :)
 
Crazyhorse said:
Then you probally already have a Basic Medium Tank (37mm or 20mm) with a different gun researched.

You can only research 1 of each tank model. :)
Click to expand...

:rofl:
Annoying, isn't it? ;)
 
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