AAR Subforum?

[The Kingmaker]

Pretty big difference between "devoted to good" in name only, and mystical beings that, by their very nature, have an innate understanding of what that means (e.g. unicorns).

edit: "The protagonist of your AAR doesn't have to be a hero either. You could write them as an anti-hero. Or even a villain."

Very true. But it is still very limiting.

That assumes all unicorns are good.

 

[Newbee53]

But see, now we are already specifying what beliefs/themes the fantasy would need to be based on. In most moral systems, wisdom / proportionate means are considered a part of goodness.


Your argument only makes sense if you agree with moral relativism. Even then, I think it is safe to presume that creatures from a realm based on goodness have a better idea of what goodness is than your leader from a morally gray realm. Furthermore, it would be intuitive to any good character to trust them for that reason.

In reality, good people may not agree on things, but they generally don't start killing each other the moment they disagree, especially if they only recently met. It really is pretty convoluted to even try to come up with something, and if you try to force a fit that doesn't work, it will show in the quality of the story.

True, but this is about justifying action in the story of your own game. So, if you aren't skipping over parts that don't fit the story, like attacking random nodes on the field, you should probably find a way justify it in your own mind. I was just giving one decent example.

In real life we don't have an objective morality system so 'good people' mostly means 'people who are close enough to what I believe is good' and thus has nothing to do with a fantasy realm. Personally, I think an objective morality system would only cause more violence to show up all the time.

 

[starkwolf]

That assumes all unicorns are good.

AoW3 makes that assumption for you, it literally tells you that. It is literally the basis of how they work in game.

True, but this is about justifying action in the story of your own game. So, if you aren't skipping over parts that don't fit the story, like attacking random nodes on the field, you should probably find a way justify it in your own mind. I was just giving one decent example.

In real life we don't have an objective morality system so 'good people' mostly means 'people who are close enough to what I believe is good' and thus has nothing to do with a fantasy realm. Personally, I think an objective morality system would only cause more violence to show up all the time.

If fantasy Hitler is good, there's a problem. There are limits to how far that relativism can go before it becomes entirely detached from believability/relevance.


edit: also, that's before we even address the bizarre diplomacy of AoW3. It's like if AI Ghandi decides to ally AI Hitler and fight Mao. All the while, Stalin and Roosevelt have teamed up to fight Churchill and DeGaul and Tojo are neutral and haven't fought anyone all game. Making excuses for one or two of these relationships? A stretch but doable. All of them? Not so much. And that's when you are playing on Squire and there's actually a point to alliances at all.

 

[The Kingmaker]

AoW3 makes that assumption for you, it literally tells you that. It is literally the basis of how they work in game.

That’s the difference between AoW3 and AoW4. The realms you create are not limited to the confines of Athla. It can be any world in the multiverse.

If you want to make something bizarre like giant, red-haired, cannibalistic, undead elves who ride unicorns that live underground by a river of lava and are led by a diminutive ratkin wizard king that wears glasses, you can do that.

That’s the big appeal. You can make your own lore. If you can find a way for something random like that to make sense in your narrative, then go for it!

 

[Newbee53]

AoW3 makes that assumption for you, it literally tells you that. It is literally the basis of how they work in game.



If fantasy Hitler is good, there's a problem. There are limits to how far that relativism can go before it becomes entirely detached from believability/relevance.


edit: also, that's before we even address the bizarre diplomacy of AoW3. It's like if AI Ghandi decides to ally AI Hitler and fight Mao. All the while, Stalin and Roosevelt have teamed up to fight Churchill and DeGaul and Tojo are neutral and haven't fought anyone all game. Making excuses for one or two of these relationships? A stretch but doable. All of them? Not so much. And that's when you are playing on Squire and there's actually a point to alliances at all.

Don't know what to say. You're not wrong, but there are people who do believe Hitler is good, they are idiots and dangerous but they exist. I know of no way to objectively prove them wrong if we can't agree that 'harm caused to all Homo Sapiens is bad. Preventing or ending said harm is good.' Which if you think Hitler is good you cannot agree with.

Weird bed fellows is fairly common when dealing with a large threat. The USSR and the US during WW2 for instance. I’d like for AI alliances to make more sense. But some times you got to do what you’ve got to do. The only thing I can think of is to make the AI consider if team victories are a thing. If they are, then the AI pays attention to things like good and evil a lot more. If not, then the AI is more willing to brake treaties when victory nears. That’s about the best I expect from that point of view.

How to justify stories is another issue all together. Mainly because it would again be based on how you tell the story. Maybe you are feared, and your enemies consider survival better than ideological integrity. Maybe the evil empire is better at controlling rumors leaving the empire. Who knows?

 

[EaglePursuit]

AoW3 makes that assumption for you, it literally tells you that. It is literally the basis of how they work in game.



If fantasy Hitler is good, there's a problem. There are limits to how far that relativism can go before it becomes entirely detached from believability/relevance.


edit: also, that's before we even address the bizarre diplomacy of AoW3. It's like if AI Ghandi decides to ally AI Hitler and fight Mao. All the while, Stalin and Roosevelt have teamed up to fight Churchill and DeGaul and Tojo are neutral and haven't fought anyone all game. Making excuses for one or two of these relationships? A stretch but doable. All of them? Not so much. And that's when you are playing on Squire and there's actually a point to alliances at all.

As AARs are fanfics for all intents and purposes and this is a fantasy genre, I don't think anyone should feel compelled to rigorously adhere to a canon of lore if it doesn't work for them.

Your preferences may differ of course, but don't force your constraints on others.

 

[starkwolf]

That’s the difference between AoW3 and AoW4. The realms you create are not limited to the confines of Athla. It can be any world in the multiverse.

If you want to make something bizarre like giant, red-haired, cannibalistic, undead elves who ride unicorns that live underground by a river of lava and are led by a diminutive ratkin wizard king that wears glasses, you can do that.

That’s the big appeal. You can make your own lore. If you can find a way for something random like that to make sense in your narrative, then go for it!

And I love what they are doing with AoW4 for that reason!

As AARs are fanfics for all intents and purposes and this is a fantasy genre, I don't think anyone should feel compelled to rigorously adhere to a canon of lore if it doesn't work for them.

Your preferences may differ of course, but don't force your constraints on others.

I hope nothing I said indicated I was forcing my constraints on others. But everything I said is exactly why I found it difficult to write AARs for AoW3, everyone else was arguing against that.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I hope nothing I said indicated I was forcing my constraints on others. But everything I said is exactly why I found it difficult to write AARs for AoW3, everyone else was arguing against that.

I think the main point here is that AoW4 has a lot more potential for really creative gameplay and exciting storytelling.

 

[starkwolf]

I think the main point here is that AoW4 has a lot more potential for really creative gameplay and exciting storytelling.

Agreed

 

[The Kingmaker]

So unless/until an AAR subforum is created for AoW4, do we just post our AARs in the main AoW4 forum?

 

[OxayotlTheGreat]

With the exception of numbers 4 and 5, that doesn't work very well when it's creatures that literally have "devoted to good" as part of their stats.

How about “The creatures agree with your purpose but require a test of strength to prove your worth. You aren't actually killing them, you are using wooden training weapons.”

 

[BleedTheFreak]

Will there be a separate AAR subforum for AoW4?

Wouldn't it be better to put AAR's that people put so much work into right in the main general forum where more eyeballs will read them, than hide them in a sub-forum that the majority of causal forum goers would just ignore/forget was there?

 

[The Kingmaker]

Wouldn't it be better to put AAR's that people put so much work into right in the main general forum where more eyeballs will read them, than hide them in a sub-forum that the majority of causal forum goers would just ignore/forget was there?

It’s all the same to me. I just want to know where to put mine.

 

[Kitschy]

AoW3 makes that assumption for you, it literally tells you that. It is literally the basis of how they work in game.

Doesn't mean you can't corrupt or bind it (unicorn) to your will, especially if you are a god like wizard.

If you want to plunge the world into eternal night and all that, don't let some lame magical horses and their silly notions about "good" stop you.

 

[starkwolf]

How about “The creatures agree with your purpose but require a test of strength to prove your worth. You aren't actually killing them, you are using wooden training weapons.”

Eh, that explanation actually makes the most sense.

 

[Flockingbird]

So unless/until an AAR subforum is created for AoW4, do we just post our AARs in the main AoW4 forum?

Wouldn’t you post them in the AAR forum? Until there’s a dedicated subforum for AOW4 AARs, that’s where I would put them.

If you need official guidance, you could @ FangirlCrazily.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Wouldn’t you post them in the AAR forum? Until there’s a dedicated subforum for AOW4 AARs, that’s where I would put them.

If you need official guidance, you could @ FangirlCrazily.

There’s specific rules for what can go where in the AAR forum. I wouldn’t want my work to get deleted for being posted in the wrong place.

@FangirlCrazily Where is the best place to post AoW4 AARs after the game is released?

 

[The Kingmaker]

Right now my plan is just to post it in this forum and hope for the best.

If there’s something else I should do instead, please let me know.