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Decius said:
So there will always be remaining pops, even if all of your levies get stackwhiped or otherwise the game would be broken. If those surviving pops are surviving male pops or mostly women, children and old people is irrelevant from the gameplay perspective, as pop growth don't rely on gender ratios.
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POP growth does not rely on gender ratios, but it should.

If you lose all your young men in battles, the rate of reproduction of your POPs should decrease accordingly. I am more in favor of this solution instead of killing POPs after one horrible battle with a lot of dead males. But then we should look at the population growth factors.
 
Decius said:
Well, if it's just a temporary modifier than okay, but in any other case I'm against it, as it would be a unnecessary nitpicking detail in the game. Hard to balance and not offering much to the game.
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Temporary modifier after severe losses of own population soldiers should be fine and enough.

If they go the simple way to kill a POP after a battle to simulate the loss of fertility rate of your population, they will keep the misconception that POPs = soldiers and nobody will understand this game ever.
 
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cristofolmc said:
I don't know about greece, I doubt it since they couldnt even vote, but I've studied roman law in university and yeah, they didnt pay taxes and do research xd. Exceptions dont make the rule.
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I don't really know if women counted as paying taxes, as I'd imagine taxes being tied to households and Census. People who study history would be more familiar with it.

But I am not lying about the etymology. Economy was originally Oeconomia, the Roman way of spelling the Greek Oikonomia. It was in the Medieval time when all OE were converted into a single E (for example Diarrhoea). Oikos is House and Nemo was "distribute" in Greek.

And then about the women running shops, it's a small knowledge given to me by Assassin's Creed Odyssey. This game has an educational tour about Ancient Greece and one of the topic was about Greek city life. At least in Athens this would be valid, that women would be the very vein of economy since they're the ones who were in charge of the households, and therefore buying and selling stuff.

I am giving this article a read to see if anything conflicts with what we've discussed.
en.wikipedia.org

Economy of ancient Greece - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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IsaacCAT said:
Temporary modifier after severe losses of own population soldiers should be fine and enough.

If they go the simple way to kill a POP after a battle to simulate the loss of fertility rate of your population, they will keep the misconception that POPs = soldiers and nobody will understand this game ever.
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I don't get how to kill a Pop though. Cohorts seldomly get destroyed in the game unless it's a stackwipe, and then they'd be mercilessly butchered and made into meat buns.

So in the end, Pops may not die since you just need to wait long enough for the magical Manpower to revive your dead soldiers.

From the look of things, Manpower is still a thing to be an output. So there will always be magical Manpower juice used to revive dead soldiers right in the frontline.
 
Iosue Yu said:
I don't get how to kill a Pop though. Cohorts seldomly get destroyed in the game unless it's a stackwipe, and then they'd be mercilessly butchered and made into meat buns.

So in the end, Pops may not die since you just need to wait long enough for the magical Manpower to revive your dead soldiers.

From the look of things, Manpower is still a thing to be an output. So there will always be magical Manpower juice used to revive dead soldiers right in the frontline.
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Hahaha it is not magical power, it is human reproduction. Manpower has a problem but it is not this. And by the look of @Arheo teasers they have already solved the problem in 2.0. Have a look at my post on this:

manpower definition flaw

Many posts have been written about manpower state on the game. This post is to denounce a flaw in the manpower definition and implementation on game. This comes after an exercise of establishing a simple rule to calculate manpower for a given...
forum.paradoxplaza.com forum.paradoxplaza.com

And killing many males can have a reproduction effect.
 
Are only man present on the I:R forums?? The statement that wowent werent productive is just bullshit sexism. Women were always productive members of society regardless of rights, in many cases much more than men. In tribal society they were often equal to men also in terms of gender equality and there are cases where women played roles as head of household and administrators, becase men would be out pirating and such. Pops do represent population as a whole.
 
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Marcus Pica said:
Are only man present on the I:R forums?? The statement that wowent werent productive is just bullshit sexism. Women were always productive members of society regardless of rights, in many cases much more than men. In tribal society they were often equal to men also in terms of gender equality and there are cases where women played roles as head of household and administrators, becase men would be out pirating and such. Pops do represent population as a whole.
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That's an interesting topic, especially related to how different societies dealt with this issue.
It seems to be particularly relevant in this time period, where different cultures had a lot of diversity in how women were treated, and in Vic's period, where suffrage and women's rights movements started a revolution there.
It could be made into a suggestion of its own in how the game could represent such a thing.
 
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Decius said:
Thanks for the article, but the comment was just meant as a joke^^
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But it was the opposite effect I was expecting. Deaths on WWII did not bring less fertility. Although the article clearly states that the baby boom was caused by other factors, mainly economic.
 
IsaacCAT said:
But it was the opposite effect I was expecting. Deaths on WWII did not bring less fertility. Although the article clearly states that the baby boom was caused by other factors, mainly economic.
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Yes, but the question is, if this was always the case after a war, that it doesn't affected fertility or if WWII was an exception. But I guess the impact is lower than we might think. Therefore I'm against anything beyond a modifier to represent that in the game.
 
Decius said:
Yes, but the question is, if this was always the case after a war, that it doesn't affected fertility or if WWII was an exception.
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I think it depends on the % of male deaths of the total population. Also it depends on migration. We know the UK case after WWII, migration helped to recover population and fertility rate.

www.worldatlas.com

Plummeting Fertility Rates In The UK: 1800 to 2020

The UK is a developed country, which is why it is not surprising that it has been experiencing declining fertility rates. The article gives an in-depth analysis of the current situation in the country.
www.worldatlas.com www.worldatlas.com

Modern immigration to the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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Marcus Pica said:
Are only man present on the I:R forums?? The statement that wowent werent productive is just bullshit sexism. Women were always productive members of society regardless of rights, in many cases much more than men. In tribal society they were often equal to men also in terms of gender equality and there are cases where women played roles as head of household and administrators, becase men would be out pirating and such. Pops do represent population as a whole.
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It has no business dealing with if there are women in this forum. An argument is an argument and it is regardless if it's raised by a man or by a woman. Thinking women not productive is a historical ignorance due to how we get that impression from the backwardness of the Medieval period. Elevating it to sexism is unnecessary.

I am the first here to raise that Greek women were the backbones of the Ancient Greek world. But I am also against branding everything sexism.

Please stick to just discuss both just the game and just history.
 
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Vohen said:
That's an interesting topic, especially related to how different societies dealt with this issue.
It seems to be particularly relevant in this time period, where different cultures had a lot of diversity in how women were treated, and in Vic's period, where suffrage and women's rights movements started a revolution there.
It could be made into a suggestion of its own in how the game could represent such a thing.
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Perhaps there could be a way to factor productivity instead of actual recruitable army manpower out of these particular pops?
Just spitballing ideas here. But that's a valid point raised on this issue.
 
On manpower losses in battle, a lot did also depend on the types of armies you’re talking about. For instance, in traditional phalanx warfare, once the front line began to collapse, men further back would often abandon their heavy equipment and run away. This meant that battle casualties were often low unless such retreat was cut off by another army or terrain (despite this, it didn’t necessarily mean the army was still intact).

Also, there is a weird effect where gender birth ratios skew slightly more male during/shortly after wars (No really, look it up. It’s even more so than the default birth ratio, which already slightly skews male). Not that that’s likely to help much with immediate demographic imbalances, and it’s not a huge change, but it is interesting to think about.
 
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Decius said:
It's less about the law, but how life in practical terms looked like. Women may didn't pay taxes, but their work contributed to the household income made paying taxes easier to bear.
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Yeah Im not sayig women haven't had a role in society. They always have and always will. They had even more of a role in the times on victoria and you dont see them represented, it's only male pops. It's logical
 
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