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EU4 - Development Diary - 7th of July 2020

Good afternoon! I am once again eschewing the traditional Swedish summer vacation, this time because I’d prefer to wait until I can safely travel rather than taking a dull staycation in my Stockholm apartment. What that means for you lovely people is that you get summer content dev diaries! Let’s get right into it!

dd_indochina.png


Those of you who know me even slightly will be aware that I love all things South-East Asia (SEA). After 2.5 years on the project, I finally have the opportunity to create the SEA map rework of my dreams. Shown above is Mainland SEA. Burma/Myanmar is excluded from the map rework as I feel that the treatment I gave it during the development of Dharma still holds up. There will certainly be new content for nations in that region however, including what another dev fondly described as the “Shan mission stick” when we played MP this weekend.

The country setup has not been radically altered. The only new additions to the 1444 setup are the tribes inhabiting what is today the Central Highlands of Vietnam. I have, however, added many new provinces and increased the total development of the region significantly. According to the logs, the indo_china_region now contains 64 provinces with 542 total development. Note that these numbers, like all numbers presented in dev diaries, are not final. I’m especially satisfied with how Lan Na fits into its 5-province state, bordered on its west by impassable terrain. Speaking of impassable terrain, the Annamite Range now separates Vietnam from much of Laos, making Dai Viet a drastically more defensible nation.

A design goal for Mainland SEA nations in the 1.31 update is to emphasize vassal play and the development of capital super-cities. We’ll talk about various ways that this will be achieved another time, but one prerequisite for the goal is having nations to vassalize:


dd_releasables.png


Several releasable nations now have cores on territory held in 1444 by Lan Xang and Dai Viet. These nations actually already exist in the game files, but are very rarely seen in 1.30 due to their lack of cores. Unfortunately there aren’t really any sensible ways that I’ve found to divide Ayutthaya or Khmer, though in Ayutthaya’s case Sukhothai can still serve as a vassal to which you can feed your Thai provinces.


dd_culture.png


I’ve also taken a look at culture groups in the region. Central Thai and Northern Thai are now simply “Thai”, which belongs to the Siamese culture group that it shares with Lao and Shan. Countries in this culture group are able to form Siam, though Ayutthaya can only do so via its new mission tree. The “Indochinese” culture group is admittedly fairly arbitrary, but does serve to encompass regions of “natural” Vietnamese expansion on their “nam tiến” (southward advance). Cham has been moved to this group to reflect that we no longer equate culture and language.


dd_siam.png


Next week we’ll take a similar look at Maritime SEA - modern Indonesia and Malaysia. In terms of scripted content you can expect plenty of historical events, mission trees, disasters, government reforms, estate privileges, and more from the 1.31 update. We’ll get to these in later weeks, but for now that’s all I have to say. Until next time, have a good week!
 
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Srivijaya was forgotten later on, in the 1444 start, it was still very much something the countries in the area tried to emulate. Unfortunately much of the stories of Srivijaya were passed down orally, and most of the documented accounts were from Chinese envoys, but it was still very much remembered in 1444
Do you have example for that? Aside from Malacca, I honestly don't know example of kingdoms around 1444 trying to emulate Srivijaya.
As far as I understand it, to put it in to perspective, by 1444 it has been more than 100 years since Srivijaya no longer an independent power in Sumatra. There have been two failed attempt to revived it (there was the rebellion in 1377 and the Singapore/Temasek Kingdom founded by Srivijaya's nobility, both stopped by Majapahit). As a center of power (Mandala) in Sumatra, it had been replaced by Dharmasraya (who later faded themselves). As a center of trade it had been replaced by Pasai. Srivijaya really has lost a lot of its prestige and legacy at this point in history.
 
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For the last time, this DD is about content in South-East Asia.
 
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Glad to see a SEA based expansion. Area has been under-appreciated for its importance in the era. Looking forward to what you've done with Malaya and Indonesia
 
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Hello, please take a look if the province of "Khukhanor Surin" is correct, as of my findings, there is no such name as "Khukhanor Surin/Khukhanor", but there is however a name of "Khukhan" which is a district in the modern province of Sisaket that is around the same area as in the game.

So I was wondering if there's a mistake in naming the province "Khukhan OR Surin" and ended up being the same word without space.

I've made the topic about this long time ago: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/incorrect-province-name.883282/
Along with the province of Nakhon Thung Yai: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/incorrect-province-name-nakhon-thung-yai.883283/

Please take this into consideration.
If this is a mistake, apologize in advance.
Thanks!
 
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Next week we’ll take a similar look at Maritime SEA - modern Indonesia and Malaysia. In terms of scripted content you can expect plenty of historical events, mission trees, disasters, government reforms, estate privileges, and more from the 1.31 update. We’ll get to these in later weeks, but for now that’s all I have to say. Until next time, have a good week!
will we have updates, new tags on Philippine Archipelago? as maritime SEA comprise of Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines and New Guinea and you didn't mention the last two.
also as Austronesian culture was the forefather of all Maritime SEA culture and they are present on some SEA province and in Taiwan on the game, will there be a revolter tag for them?
also will you fix some mislabeled nation in Philippines. It supposed to be "Madja-as" named after a mountain range in the heart of the island and not "Madyas". "Madyas" is Miguel de Loarca's incorrect hearing of the name "Madja-as" from the natives.
Also Madja-as was founded by the 10 Datus(kings) and their people who flee from northern Sumatra after the destruction of Srivijaya Empire as they refused to be enslaved to Islam, Taosim or Hinduism. It would be cool if they could reform Srivijaya Empire if they able to conquer its old territory.
 
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Good afternoon! I am once again eschewing the traditional Swedish summer vacation, this time because I’d prefer to wait until I can safely travel rather than taking a dull staycation in my Stockholm apartment. What that means for you lovely people is that you get summer content dev diaries! Let’s get right into it!

View attachment 597891

Those of you who know me even slightly will be aware that I love all things South-East Asia (SEA). After 2.5 years on the project, I finally have the opportunity to create the SEA map rework of my dreams. Shown above is Mainland SEA. Burma/Myanmar is excluded from the map rework as I feel that the treatment I gave it during the development of Dharma still holds up. There will certainly be new content for nations in that region however, including what another dev fondly described as the “Shan mission stick” when we played MP this weekend.

The country setup has not been radically altered. The only new additions to the 1444 setup are the tribes inhabiting what is today the Central Highlands of Vietnam. I have, however, added many new provinces and increased the total development of the region significantly. According to the logs, the indo_china_region now contains 64 provinces with 542 total development. Note that these numbers, like all numbers presented in dev diaries, are not final. I’m especially satisfied with how Lan Na fits into its 5-province state, bordered on its west by impassable terrain. Speaking of impassable terrain, the Annamite Range now separates Vietnam from much of Laos, making Dai Viet a drastically more defensible nation.

A design goal for Mainland SEA nations in the 1.31 update is to emphasize vassal play and the development of capital super-cities. We’ll talk about various ways that this will be achieved another time, but one prerequisite for the goal is having nations to vassalize:


View attachment 597892

Several releasable nations now have cores on territory held in 1444 by Lan Xang and Dai Viet. These nations actually already exist in the game files, but are very rarely seen in 1.30 due to their lack of cores. Unfortunately there aren’t really any sensible ways that I’ve found to divide Ayutthaya or Khmer, though in Ayutthaya’s case Sukhothai can still serve as a vassal to which you can feed your Thai provinces.


View attachment 597893

I’ve also taken a look at culture groups in the region. Central Thai and Northern Thai are now simply “Thai”, which belongs to the Siamese culture group that it shares with Lao and Shan. Countries in this culture group are able to form Siam, though Ayutthaya can only do so via its new mission tree. The “Indochinese” culture group is admittedly fairly arbitrary, but does serve to encompass regions of “natural” Vietnamese expansion on their “nam tiến” (southward advance). Cham has been moved to this group to reflect that we no longer equate culture and language.


View attachment 597894

Next week we’ll take a similar look at Maritime SEA - modern Indonesia and Malaysia. In terms of scripted content you can expect plenty of historical events, mission trees, disasters, government reforms, estate privileges, and more from the 1.31 update. We’ll get to these in later weeks, but for now that’s all I have to say. Until next time, have a good week!
[/
Good afternoon! I am once again eschewing the traditional Swedish summer vacation, this time because I’d prefer to wait until I can safely travel rather than taking a dull staycation in my Stockholm apartment. What that means for you lovely people is that you get summer content dev diaries! Let’s get right into it!

View attachment 597891

Those of you who know me even slightly will be aware that I love all things South-East Asia (SEA). After 2.5 years on the project, I finally have the opportunity to create the SEA map rework of my dreams. Shown above is Mainland SEA. Burma/Myanmar is excluded from the map rework as I feel that the treatment I gave it during the development of Dharma still holds up. There will certainly be new content for nations in that region however, including what another dev fondly described as the “Shan mission stick” when we played MP this weekend.

The country setup has not been radically altered. The only new additions to the 1444 setup are the tribes inhabiting what is today the Central Highlands of Vietnam. I have, however, added many new provinces and increased the total development of the region significantly. According to the logs, the indo_china_region now contains 64 provinces with 542 total development. Note that these numbers, like all numbers presented in dev diaries, are not final. I’m especially satisfied with how Lan Na fits into its 5-province state, bordered on its west by impassable terrain. Speaking of impassable terrain, the Annamite Range now separates Vietnam from much of Laos, making Dai Viet a drastically more defensible nation.

A design goal for Mainland SEA nations in the 1.31 update is to emphasize vassal play and the development of capital super-cities. We’ll talk about various ways that this will be achieved another time, but one prerequisite for the goal is having nations to vassalize:


View attachment 597892

Several releasable nations now have cores on territory held in 1444 by Lan Xang and Dai Viet. These nations actually already exist in the game files, but are very rarely seen in 1.30 due to their lack of cores. Unfortunately there aren’t really any sensible ways that I’ve found to divide Ayutthaya or Khmer, though in Ayutthaya’s case Sukhothai can still serve as a vassal to which you can feed your Thai provinces.


View attachment 597893

I’ve also taken a look at culture groups in the region. Central Thai and Northern Thai are now simply “Thai”, which belongs to the Siamese culture group that it shares with Lao and Shan. Countries in this culture group are able to form Siam, though Ayutthaya can only do so via its new mission tree. The “Indochinese” culture group is admittedly fairly arbitrary, but does serve to encompass regions of “natural” Vietnamese expansion on their “nam tiến” (southward advance). Cham has been moved to this group to reflect that we no longer equate culture and language.


View attachment 597894

Next week we’ll take a similar look at Maritime SEA - modern Indonesia and Malaysia. In terms of scripted content you can expect plenty of historical events, mission trees, disasters, government reforms, estate privileges, and more from the 1.31 update. We’ll get to these in later weeks, but for now that’s all I have to say. Until next time, have a good week!
Please show Philippines some love in this dev diary solid fan of this game from the Philippines and it's sad there is no mid tier formable nation in our region even if it's just a hypothetical formable nation
 
will we have updates, new tags on Philippine Archipelago? as maritime SEA comprise of Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines and New Guinea and you didn't mention the last two.
also as Austronesian culture was the forefather of all Maritime SEA culture and they are present on some SEA province and in Taiwan on the game, will there be a revolter tag for them?
also will you fix some mislabeled nation in Philippines. It supposed to be "Madja-as" named after a mountain range in the heart of the island and not "Madyas". "Madyas" is Miguel de Loarca's incorrect hearing of the name "Madja-as" from the natives.
Also Madja-as was founded by the 10 Datus(kings) and their people who flee from northern Sumatra after the destruction of Srivijaya Empire as they refused to be enslaved to Islam, Taosim or Hinduism. It would be cool if they could reform Srivijaya Empire if they able to conquer its old territory.
I agree, It’s hard to have a proper expansion of Maritime SEA without taking Srivijaya into account
 
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SEA update is great and all, but you know what I hope they don't add? Malaysia, Indonesia, and Philippines tags. Because those are just horrendous. Artificial post-colonial states. Philippines especially would be a very bad formable nation.

A formable Moluccan nation might be good, because afaik Moluccas is lacking a good formable nation. If Philippines does get formable nations, they should at least be divided into Bangsamoro for the Muslim states and Haring Bayang Katagalugan for the non Muslim states

Also why is the country in the Philippines referred to as a "Barangay"? What in God's name is a Great Barangay and Grand Barangay? A barangay is the equivalent of a county. Never have I heard anyone refer to pre-Hispanic civilizations in the Philippines as a "barangay". We just call them Rajahnates, Sultanates, Kedatuans, and Bayans.
 
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Finally, good to see an update about Southeast Asia, the map looks great but some features need to be add or enhanced like provinces and regions.

I also propose new regions and provinces based on the thread I create for suggestion of adding missing regions and provinces to the map. For more details see the thread link I post https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/southeast-asia-map-overhaul-suggestion.1404532/

Also for Northern Vietnam, Idk, It should be added more or not because in the game Lan Xang tend to beat Dai Viet in many game rounds or probably add more development to Northern Vietnam provinces to make it bit stronger and with Chinese tech because I believe that in this new dlc or update will add tech for both Indochinese and Malayan groups while Vietnam will retain Chinese tech because their arsenals and weaponry are Chinese influenced.
 
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A design goal for Mainland SEA nations in the 1.31 update is to emphasize vassal play and the development of capital super-cities. We’ll talk about various ways that this will be achieved another time, but one prerequisite for the goal is having nations to vassalize:

Dev spoke about vassal play and capital super-city and declined to speak more on it. For once, this does sounds like Mandala system which was indeed a thing among the medieval SEA nations, mimicking close to chinese celestial empire system, in which tributaries pays annual tributes in exchange for their 'overlord protection' but depending on their relative powers, the tributaries can seek for other nations to become the sovereign instead. Interestingly, the Mandala system brought about the destruction of Ayutthaya kingdom by the Sukhothais. Hopefully we can see this being implemented among others such as the decision to recreate Srivijayan maritime empire, decline of Majapahit to name a few.
 
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SEA update is great and all, but you know what I hope they don't add? Malaysia, Indonesia, and Philippines tags. Because those are just horrendous. Artificial post-colonial states. Philippines especially would be a very bad formable nation.
you would add a proposed state but not the actual historical nation? there was no Bangsamoro until it was proposed in last few decades by the Philippine Government as a solution on the conflict ridden southern Islands. Philippines did exist from 1565 as a Spanish Colony under the name "Spanish East Indies" with its own Capital and Governor General, if you own Golden century DLC there was even a Mission for spain on colonizing the Philippine Islands, the devs could expand this by making it an actual colonial nation. Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines deserves to be in the game as a formable post colonial nation. They even made a tag for formable post colonial Nation for Alaska, Cascadia, Illinois, Quebec, Sonora, Vermont and West Indies, I mean how many of those in-game tags actually become actual independent nation today?.

Also why is the country in the Philippines referred to as a "Barangay"? What in God's name is a Great Barangay and Grand Barangay? A barangay is the equivalent of a county. Never have I heard anyone refer to pre-Hispanic civilizations in the Philippines as a "barangay". We just call them Rajahnates, Sultanates, Kedatuans, and Bayans.
yes its not totally accurate, but i think this is the devs way of implenting the Government Rank in-game.
 
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you would add a proposed state but not the actual historical nation? there was no Bangsamoro until it was proposed in last few decades by the Philippine Government as a solution on the conflict ridden southern Islands. Philippines did exist from 1565 as a Spanish Colony under the name "Spanish East Indies" with its own Capital and Governor General, if you own Golden century DLC there was even a Mission for spain on colonizing the Philippine Islands, the devs could expand this by making it an actual colonial nation. Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines deserves to be in the game as a formable post colonial nation. They even made a tag for formable post colonial Nation for Alaska, Cascadia, Illinois, Quebec, Sonora, Vermont and West Indies, I mean how many of those in-game tags actually become actual independent nation today?.
Malaysia, Indonesia and even Philippines shouldn't exist in eu4 timeframe. It's so off putting and yes, artificial at best. The right way to represent these colonial nations that stays true to the timeframe are the trade companies themselves, East Indies, East India Company etc., which again were already there in the game!
 
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Malaysia, Indonesia and even Philippines shouldn't exist in eu4 timeframe. It's so off putting and yes, artificial at best. The right way to represent these colonial nations that stays true to the timeframe are the trade companies themselves, East Indies, East India Company etc., which again were already there in the game!

Nusantara would be better formable tag for Malays and Indonesians who united Indonesian Archipelago and Peninsula Malaysia because Nusantara is an old term for Archipelago while Indonesia is modern name.
 
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Nusantara would be better formable tag for Malays and Indonesians who united Indonesian Archipelago and Peninsula Malaysia because Nusantara is an old term for Archipelago while Indonesia is modern name.
Technically speaking, Malaya as formable tag too, lacked historical consensus. I mean there should be no such thing as Malaya or Nusantara either. It's just superficial term to represent the people living in the said region. In all honesty, for the sake of historical context, it would be more accurate to unite them under different tags such as Srivijaya, or Majapahit, in which their rule spanned over vast territories following the Mandala vassal-state system.
 
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Come on, guys, before talking about formables or what will be or not in the Philippines, you might want to wait for teh appropriate DD.

Amending my previous post : for the last time, this DD is about content in MAINLAND South-East Asia.
 
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Should Muang Phuan begin as a playable nation in 1444.
Muang Phuan in 1444 should be a vassal of Lan Xang. They only just become Dai Viet's vassal in 1478 during the Dai Viet- Lan Xang war in 1478-1480. Historically Muang Phuan should be added considered the autonomy they had. But in term of gameplay, it would make Lan Xang stronger.
Yes Dai Viet will be eradicated within 10-20 years of game time.
 
In my opinion, Champa should be in the culture group of Malay, but Dai Viet should have claim on Champa and mission to cultural convert Cham land.
That way Dai Viet should only border with Lan Xang and not Khmer after eating Champa (for AI only) they will stay longer.
Also Champa gameplay would be more fun since they don't just die faster due to being in the same culture group of both Dai Viet and Khmer. Even if they lost the war The Chams should only become OPM historically and not be eaten completely.
 
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I think the province on a map named LAKHON/Lakhon in the Lan Na Kingdom is incorrect, it should be Lampang/Khelang Nakhon. The old name of Lampang was Khelang Nakhon.
 
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