EU4 - Development Diary - 7th of July 2020

Good afternoon! I am once again eschewing the traditional Swedish summer vacation, this time because I’d prefer to wait until I can safely travel rather than taking a dull staycation in my Stockholm apartment. What that means for you lovely people is that you get summer content dev diaries! Let’s get right into it!

dd_indochina.png


Those of you who know me even slightly will be aware that I love all things South-East Asia (SEA). After 2.5 years on the project, I finally have the opportunity to create the SEA map rework of my dreams. Shown above is Mainland SEA. Burma/Myanmar is excluded from the map rework as I feel that the treatment I gave it during the development of Dharma still holds up. There will certainly be new content for nations in that region however, including what another dev fondly described as the “Shan mission stick” when we played MP this weekend.

The country setup has not been radically altered. The only new additions to the 1444 setup are the tribes inhabiting what is today the Central Highlands of Vietnam. I have, however, added many new provinces and increased the total development of the region significantly. According to the logs, the indo_china_region now contains 64 provinces with 542 total development. Note that these numbers, like all numbers presented in dev diaries, are not final. I’m especially satisfied with how Lan Na fits into its 5-province state, bordered on its west by impassable terrain. Speaking of impassable terrain, the Annamite Range now separates Vietnam from much of Laos, making Dai Viet a drastically more defensible nation.

A design goal for Mainland SEA nations in the 1.31 update is to emphasize vassal play and the development of capital super-cities. We’ll talk about various ways that this will be achieved another time, but one prerequisite for the goal is having nations to vassalize:


dd_releasables.png


Several releasable nations now have cores on territory held in 1444 by Lan Xang and Dai Viet. These nations actually already exist in the game files, but are very rarely seen in 1.30 due to their lack of cores. Unfortunately there aren’t really any sensible ways that I’ve found to divide Ayutthaya or Khmer, though in Ayutthaya’s case Sukhothai can still serve as a vassal to which you can feed your Thai provinces.


dd_culture.png


I’ve also taken a look at culture groups in the region. Central Thai and Northern Thai are now simply “Thai”, which belongs to the Siamese culture group that it shares with Lao and Shan. Countries in this culture group are able to form Siam, though Ayutthaya can only do so via its new mission tree. The “Indochinese” culture group is admittedly fairly arbitrary, but does serve to encompass regions of “natural” Vietnamese expansion on their “nam tiến” (southward advance). Cham has been moved to this group to reflect that we no longer equate culture and language.


dd_siam.png


Next week we’ll take a similar look at Maritime SEA - modern Indonesia and Malaysia. In terms of scripted content you can expect plenty of historical events, mission trees, disasters, government reforms, estate privileges, and more from the 1.31 update. We’ll get to these in later weeks, but for now that’s all I have to say. Until next time, have a good week!
 
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Shahanshah759

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That would require the removal of the Malacca > Burma connection though, and I'm not sure that's something good.
I think you mean "Malacca > Bengal" as there is no "Malacca > Burma" connection. I don’t think this would necessarily be a bad thing. Trade could flow "Siam > Malacca > Burma > Bengal" or "Burma > Bengal"; a player in the Bengal node would have more incentive to protect trade in upstream nodes (or expand into Arakan and Pegu).
 
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Blackwhitecavias

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I think you mean Malacca > Bengal as there is no Malacca > Burma connection. I don’t think this would necessarily be a bad thing. Trade could flow Siam > Malacca > Burma > Bengal or Burma > Bengal; a player in the Bengal node would have more incentive to protect trade in upstream nodes (or expand into Arakan and Pegu).
I did indeed miss the addition of a burma node seperate from Bengal. so a burma > siam connection would be possible
 

InZaneGames

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As someone with Khmer family and who plays EU4 in SEA frequently, I'm loving the much needed attention this area is getting. I love the additional provinces everyone is getting, but especially Khmer. I do think moving Mon into the Burmese culture group is funny and Cham into the Viet-Khmer group is strange. The justification of language and culture not being equivalent, while true in whole, is not true for SEA. Language knowledge is what defined 'citizenship' in this area and time period. One generation may have originally been Khmer, moved to Siam, and two generations later were only speaking Thai. In the time and context, those grandchildren were Thai and no longer Khmer. However, if a different family continued to speak Khmer under Thai rule, they were still Khmer. Mon and Khmer are part of the same language group and, before being split by the Thai migrations, exhibited similar architectural techniques and patterns. There were also several Mon-Khmer client states. Similarly, Cham is a Malay language and the Cham had more in common culturally with their insular counterparts being a maritime trade civilization. The Cham and Khmer despised each other at the start of EU4 time period. Prior to EU4's time, both tried to conquer each other, and succeeded temporarily, but were both overthrown by local revolts due to each's nonacceptance of the other. As a game developer, I can see where these changes make for better map painting gameplay, but they take away from the complexities that are mainland SEA at the time that would make more intricate and focused gameplay early on when playing as Champ or Khmer.

Don't get me wrong, I love the attention this is getting. I'm super looking forward to the update! The inclusion of the Annamite Mts as impassible terrain and hill tribes between Khmer and Champa is beautiful! So is the idea of increased vassalization and super-cities mechanics, because that is how this region worked. I'd love to see some reciprocal obligation events for vassal and overlord. But, the cultural decisions being made here will limit the gameplay possibilities of historical plausibilities in this region.
 
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InZaneGames

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Cambodia can have the releasable/formable nation of Cochinchina. In about 1600, Nguyen lords were granted Prey Nokor (Saigon) by Khmer King Chey Chettha II. Gradually, the Nguyen expanded their territory around Saigon, then, through wars, the Mekong Delta and Tuek Khmao. By 1802, Cochinchina conquered the other Viet states forming Vietnam. Ultimately, the Viet conquest of Phnom Penh, the French annexation of the Cochinchina area, and the sustained vassalization of Cambodia by Siam led Cambodian King Nodorom to peacefully join the French Indochina Union (after a little war between France and Siam).
 
Feb 13, 2021
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Vietnamese culture was different from the Indochinese countries at that time, military might was not polite
Culturally, Dai Viet should be a culture that is especially friendly with Chinese culture, and has military potential with Champa + Lan Xang.
 
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Jayavarman

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Vietnamese culture was different from the Indochinese countries at that time, military might was not polite
Culturally, Dai Viet should be a culture that is especially friendly with Chinese culture, and has military potential with Champa + Lan Xang.
military potential = ???
 
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Aquamancer

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Vietnamese culture was different from the Indochinese countries at that time, military might was not polite
Culturally, Dai Viet should be a culture that is especially friendly with Chinese culture, and has military potential with Champa + Lan Xang.
The culture system doesn't allow a culture to have better relations with cultures from one different group than with another different group. Thus, your proposal cannot be implemented in-game without reworking how the culture system works.
 
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Feb 13, 2021
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in 1444, Dai Viet claims to have a mission to educate other countries of cultures
in 1444 ,Due to the population explosion, Dai Viet had an army outnumbering Lan Xang and Champa
The Vietnamese dynasties always had ambitions to expand their territory, during the Tay So'n reunification of Dai Viet and defeat of the Qing army, they intended to claim land south of the Qing Dynasty.
So let Dai Viet become a only culture in Indochina and increase the army for Dai Viet
 
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BlazeKnight_

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It still makes more sense for Vietnamese to be a cultural isolate or grouped with Zhuang. I'm still a huge advocate of the "Lingnan" culture group. The current method of putting Vietnamese in Chinese group is simply uneducated, since there is literally no legitimate arguments I can think of, especially when the code for a culture being replaced by another in a different group already exists (Jurchen to Manchu). Not only does putting Vietnamese in Chinese ignore current social-political issues, it also completely disregards history.

Even neondt's first culture map makes much more sense. The only issue was Cham culture being grouped with Vietnamese when it really should have stayed Malay, but other than that it was fine.

And yes, I still do agree that Vietnam looks a little weak. I mean I guess the patch hasn't released yet but we've been waiting for over half a year. Apparently the provinces of Vietnam will be high dev, but I doubt it will be close to what it should be, not to mention how province density directly correlates to potential wealth due to how developing provinces becomes more expensive over time. I think Vietnamese NIs could also get a small buff since Siam exists, and they are the tag that everyone will be going for.
 
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