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EU4 - Development Diary - 5th of March 2019

Good morning. As was foretold, I am back to talk about our thoughts on overhauling the map of the Balkans for the big end-of-year European update. Once again I’ll begin with a disclaimer that everything here is very much subject to change as we continue to listen to feedback and iterate on our own ideas throughout the year.

balkans_old.jpg


Behold: the Balkans in patch 1.4. And for reference, here are the Balkans as they are now, in patch 1.28:

balkans_new.jpg


The big change here is simply “more provinces”. Albania has been split up substantially, we have more Aegean Islands, and provinces density in Bulgaria is higher.

There is still, in my opinion, plenty of room for new provinces in Greece and Bulgaria. For the mainland we want to achieve a similar level of density as we see in Anatolia. One of the most obvious things we can do is split the Yanya province by adding Arta, one of the last Epirote cities to fall to the Ottomans. The return of the Epirus tag in 1444 heralds another change: the removal of the Corfu tag, at least in 1444. In the game right now, Corfu is a vassal of Venice and ruled by monarchs who were in fact the independent rulers of the Despotate of Epirus. This will change.

Other possibilities include a province that would more accurately reflect the Ottoman-Moldavian border in Silistria/Basarabia, a further split in the Aegean between Scio and Lesbos, and a separate province centered on the city of Tarnovo in Bulgaria.

greece_suggestion.jpg


This suggestion by Mingmung, and others very much like it, show a step in the right direction. Beyond what I’ve already mentioned, I like the idea of splitting Cephalonia from the Corfu province to add a little tactical depth to Epirus, as well as the addition of Corinth in the south. We are however unlikely to add extra provinces on Cyprus or Crete: outside of very large islands like Sardinia and Sicily we prefer to keep such places restrained to single provinces.

Moving north-west, there’s a lot that could be done in Serbia, Bosnia, and the Dalmatian coast. There’s room for a few more provinces of course, though not quite so many as we might need further south.

balkans_suggestion.jpg


This very aesthetically pleasing suggestion by ootats has a lot going for it. Representing Herzegovina/the Duchy of Saint Sava as a Bosnian vassal in 1444 is an interesting possibility. It also puts the province density on a level similar to that of Hungary, which I feel is a good target to aim for in the region. It is however unlikely that we’ll be adding both the Venetian provinces of Scutari and Cataro.

We’ve been reading your comments on the previous dev diary, and they’ve provoked a lot of discussion on Team Content Design. One of the results of these discussions is that we’re more open to a Como province that would split away from the northern part of what is now Milan. When the time comes for implementation it's certainly something we're willing to try out.

And that's all for today! Next week I invite you to join me on a wild ride through the confusing nightmarish mess that was Early Modern Germany. Until then, I look forward to more of your comments and suggestions.
 
Sure.. the result is that its one of least developed parts of Europe. There was no peace - Ottos were in wars constantly and there was hardly any prosperity, if there was no Austria Balkan wouldn't see railroads until 1940 i think. Yeah, good job. Food is good tho :D
1. Balkans were already least development parts of the Europe before Turks came there.
2. Austria didnt build railroads for your prosperity they did for exploiting you better. Haven't you read The Bridge on the Drina yet?
3. And yes there was peace & order continued until the age of nationalism.
4. Ottoman wars were mostly in Hungary, German front not Balkans you were in peace for a long time.

And after Ottomans gone just look at the Balkans....
 
I like that it took us 15 pages to turn this into another shitty balkan thread this time. I feel like its taking longer each time.


Anyway, I will state that I hope the Adriatic coast gets more work, especially the situation with Venice and Austria's coastline. It'd also be nice to see Venice able to withstand more fighting than it can now, seeing as the state managed to maintain its greek lands for a surprising amount of time and even conquered some from the Ottomans for a while.
 
Remember to tread carefully when debating some subjects...

And i'll remind you gals and guys that the game's timeframe is 1444-1821... so stuff from the second half of the XIX and later should be discuss in another forum than the EUIV one.
 
To break the ice, does anyone have an idea on any unique features for the Balkan minors, or states in that sphere of influence? Any flavor events? Unit models?

I know it might be asking too much, but considering how many units RB added, i'd love to see folk at the studio go crazy with some unique Balkan models. They can really fill in the gap nicely between Ottoman and Christian units, potentially emulating both for some specific tags.
 
To break the ice, does anyone have an idea on any unique features for the Balkan minors, or states in that sphere of influence? Any flavor events? Unit models?

I know it might be asking too much, but considering how many units RB added, i'd love to see folk at the studio go crazy with some unique Balkan models. They can really fill in the gap nicely between Ottoman and Christian units, potentially emulating both for some specific tags.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/b7/bf/86b7bfc0639e5634d00e14e2a01ef8a2.jpg
 
I've got a few ideas

UCRbRUX.jpg

Early Serbian gusars, though they used boar and wolf hide, not lion hide, lol.
t0RfFuj.jpg

Croatian cavalryman from late XV. Elegant and simple.
BUTWlj5.jpg

Serbo-Hungarian hussar.
J9oth53.jpg

A fancy Croatian Krabater.
n5amHqY.jpg

Herzegovinian Serb hajduks eyeing Klobuk fortress
jqtK2pG.jpg

Wallachian mad guy
j7g7ewH.jpg

More Wallachian riders
lxlFYEY.jpg

Moldavian warrior
S7reOEW.jpg

Albanian warrior
A1fISWt.jpg

Officer of Serbian hussar regiment, Russia
QnLxvzi.jpg

Private from Serbian hussar regiment, Russia
faaTU9c.jpg

Different Freikorps. Sitting guy is a Serbian Frajkar.
 
This doesn't make sense to me. If we don't change groups, then all but Albanians are South Slavs. If we add Greece... That addition makes no sense.
Because Serbs and Croats are Slavs? Leave Tito's and Russian propaganda behind, we are all of Balkan decent (Thracians, Dacians and Illyrians) at very least, in majority. Just because couple of Slavic tribes settled there, doesn't mean that all of the people previously settled (some of them, like Constantine, Justinian and Aurelian were Roman Imperators, for Gods' sake) disappeared.
 
i'd like to see Switzerland get some love. their government was (is) quite unique, essentially having a parliament of sorts, and was very reliant on trade. maybe a trans-alpine trade node or buff up the centre of trade modifiers for some Swiss provinces. beefing up the development of the Swiss core provinces or splitting them up into more provinces to increase total dev would be a bit more accurate historically.

BONUS: making dairy or cheese a trade good for some European provinces would make my heart sing and then arrest :))))
 
A couple of arguments yes:
- Louis I of Hungary invaded Moldavia and Wallachia and tried to install pupet rulers on the principalties (successfully in Wallachia, not so in Moldavia).
- Both Vlad II and Vlad III (the Impaler) having spent time at the Hungarian court, and using Transylvania as a base in their fight against the subjugation of Wallachia by the Ottomans. John Hunyadi, voivode of Transylvania re-asserted Hungarian influance in the Wallachian principalty right before beginning of the game.
- Stephen the Great of Moldavia asserted its independance from Poland and sought support both in Wallachia (from Vlad III) and in Transylvania where he got the support of the Three Nations of Transylvania against Matthias Corvinus.
- Emeric Thököly, prince of Transylvania joined the Ottomans before the Battle of Vienna in 1683 under the promise that he would get most of Upper Hungary (Habsbourg Royal Hungary). If successful, this would have meant something close to a reconstitution of the old Hungarian Kingdom.

So yes, I can say that something similar happened in the case of Romania, and Transylvania, with variou polities trying to ascertain their influence on something of a continum from Hungary - Transylvania - Romania.

To me, this is enough to justify being part of the same cultural group.
I don't see the same thing between Hungarian and West Slavic. Indeed, the PU between Poland and Hungary was really short-lived (1440-1444) and was not tried again afterwards. Same thing for the conquest of Bohemia by Corvinus, short-lived as well.
Well Hungary also had Personal Union with Croatia for almost 900 years almost continously-still different culture groups.
Louis I the Great of Hungary led also Polish-Hungarian personal union 12 years-after his death both of his daughters got elected as leaders of each country, later Stephen Bathory from Hungary got elected as king of Poland who formed the winged hussars, beat the sht out from Ivan the Terrible
both countries have similar cultures, central european culture group would solve the problem
 
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Louis I the Great of Hungary led also Polish-Hungarian personal union 12 years-after his death both of his daughters got elected as leaders of each country, later Stephen Bathory from Hungary got elected as king of Poland who formed the winged hussars, beat the sht out from Ivan the Terrible
both countries have similar cultures, central european culture group would solve the problem
I think Central European is a bad name for a culture like that, as it excludes the biggest culture [group] in Central Europe: German.
 
I think Central European is a bad name for a culture like that, as it excludes the biggest culture [group] in Central Europe: German.

I accept that german is the biggest culture group today in Europe, but back then these countries were also great and big on territory.
No Idea if we add up, but measuring:
Summa of German culture group's development rate vs the Summa of central european group's (Hungarian(including Transylvanian), Slovak, Polish, Czech, Silesian)---still German will highly outwin.

And here is a written memory by western chronicle writer about some hungarian soldier warcry in 1355. The whole story is written in latin about I Louis the great king of Hungary sent hungarian mounted regiments to aid II Albert Habsburg IV and Karol Holy Roman Emperor forces against Zürich and her allies. These men got order to leave no germans(scwabians) alive and the chronicle writer wrote down this warcry which is a swearing. as the last sentence in hungarian:
,,Wezteg kwrwanewfya zaros nemeth, iwtattok werenkewth, ma yzzywk thy werthekheth"
I am pretty sure that this writing is very close to polish writing-also this is the first written swearing memory in hungarian, and also some historians debating even today that the most known polish word by the world can be of hungarian origin-but I'm not debating about the origin, just brought as a proof that back then Hungary and Poland had really lot stuff in common.
 
I meant to reply to this dev diary when it originally came out, but stuff came up and I ended up forgetting about it, so I thought I might as well do it now. :D

I don't really have much more to add that hasn't already been discussed here ad nauseam, so hopefully it should suffice to say that overall I'm really pleased to see that you're taking the guys' suggestions to heart (we've finished with the map more or less, and have started work on mission trees, NIs, and dynamic province names). I'm also happy that the possibility of a Croatian-Hungarian PU is being looked into, and hopefully we might actually see it in the game. :)
 
I accept that german is the biggest culture group today in Europe, but back then these countries were also great and big on territory.
No Idea if we add up, but measuring:
Summa of German culture group's development rate vs the Summa of central european group's (Hungarian(including Transylvanian), Slovak, Polish, Czech, Silesian)---still German will highly outwin.

And here is a written memory by western chronicle writer about some hungarian soldier warcry in 1355. The whole story is written in latin about I Louis the great king of Hungary sent hungarian mounted regiments to aid II Albert Habsburg IV and Karol Holy Roman Emperor forces against Zürich and her allies. These men got order to leave no germans(scwabians) alive and the chronicle writer wrote down this warcry which is a swearing. as the last sentence in hungarian:
,,Wezteg kwrwanewfya zaros nemeth, iwtattok werenkewth, ma yzzywk thy werthekheth"
I am pretty sure that this writing is very close to polish writing-also this is the first written swearing memory in hungarian, and also some historians debating even today that the most known polish word by the world can be of hungarian origin-but I'm not debating about the origin, just brought as a proof that back then Hungary and Poland had really lot stuff in common.
I'm not at all denying that Poland and Hungary has a lot in common, I'm just not entirely convinced on the name Central European for the group. Central Europe basically consists of 3 countries (HRE, Poland and Hungary), though, and leaving [most of] the biggest one out a culture group named Central European feels a bit weird, like having a Scandinavian group without Swedish. On the other hand, Swedish fits extremely well with the other Scandinavian cultures, while German isn't such an amazing fit with the other Central European cultures. I can't really think of any good names for a group combining the current West Slavic group with Hungarian, so perhaps Central European is the lesser evil after all.
 
Looked at the new possible map for the balkans, and saw there was no straight connecting Morea to the rest of greece. Please keep the straight removed. I know it sounds minor, but it would be really nice to be able to go somewhat historical and have a single fort defending the peninsula, kinda what happened in real life with the Hexamillion, would also make a fort in Morea actually possible useful for Byzantium.

PS: Also maybe change Byzantium's starting fort from southern to northern morea if you do this? I know Byzantium's capital there was in the south, but their Hexamillion defenses were in the north, and much stronger there, so I feel like this would be more historically accurately representing their defenses, as well as having more gameplay value, so every byzantium run doesn't start with auto-deleting the fort there.
 
About magiar culture group, think slovaks should be there cause historical reasons, and that we should have some kind of szekely/szaszc culture, while transilvanian goes to romanian group.

Slovaks should be in same culture group as Bohemians (historical and even today reasons) - Carpathian and west slavic culture groups are just mess both historically and even in today standards
 
Slightly disappointed that once again it's splitting current provinces into infinite smaller ones. I personally thought that in Poland update it went too far, giving whole 4-province states to regions as small as "Kuyavia"... now literally everything else on the map looks "ugly" and outdated.
That said indeed Balkans need slight redrawal, especially in Bulgaria - Silistre and Dobrogea need to be two provinces!

I'm not very sure which group Hungarian should be in, but at least Slovak needs to be moved to West Slavic - group currently quite underpowered compared to its actual presence in 1444 anyway...
 
Slovaks should be in same culture group as Bohemians (historical and even today reasons) - Carpathian and west slavic culture groups are just mess both historically and even in today standards

Slovakia was part of Hungary for 1000 years, since magyars took it from Great Moravia. Ofc they're west slavic as bohemians, but for gameplay reason they fit better with hungarians.
Anyways they could be west slavic and accepted culture for Hungary, so no problem at all.
 
Allow me to add other suggestions for Vlacho-Moldavian units:
Infantry T 1 Wallachian.png

T1 Infantry for Wallachia , the colour of the shield background is up for debate
Infantry T 2.png

And a T2 Infantry for both Wallachia maybe Moldavia and maaaaaaybe Transylvania, of course with different colours which would match the country they belong to

edit: sorry, but how do I mark images as spoilers?
 
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